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Post by bancroft on Oct 22, 2022 14:28:50 GMT
I suspect it will make no difference to you, Pac, since you appear to be a big fan of FPTP, but I should have added the word 'exclusive', in between 'granted' and 'access', i.e. 'granted exclusive access to the levers of power in this country'. I take your point, but in my view if there is a critical mass of libertarian right-wingers and socialist left-wingers who can garner electoral support, then they would have a right to participation in our parliamentary system because however odious their views might be, in a free country they have a right to be heard (ridiculed and derided, perhaps, but heard nonetheless). I guess we could apply Churchill's 'least worse' principle to our current system, but I still find it troubling that one party who does not enjoy majority support in the country can gain a majority of seats in our system and thus exercise exclusive control over the country. Take Boris' 'landslide' from 2019. Rounding the figures, the Tories got 44% of the vote but got 56% of the seats and were then able to impose the will of the 44% on the other 56% of the electorate. Maybe that is the 'least worst option', but I sense a combination of apathy, complacency and a wish to retain FPTP for its disproportionate advantage on the part of its supporters that mitigates against considering how we could make it better.  The problem we have is what sub-section of people become MPs? The right wing libertarian agenda is probably driven by those who want to minimise their taxes and or use tax havens. The socialist left-wingers are harder to define yet the classroom example where everyone gets the same mark and eventually no-one competes meaning standards drop suggests that model does not work well either. Is it indoctrination or a just a desire to rule on principles they do not actually believe in to have power. Some have chips on their shoulders no doubt from perceived injustices they have seen growing up and then vowing to make a difference. Of course once getting to the levers of power or close to them they then get to see the tough decisions and opportunity cost of decisions they would make with so much interest to pay to national debt holders. Our form of mixed economy capitalism works to a degree yet is a complicated beast. Due to population density and lack of usable resources we are in something of an economic straight jacket. If we penalise the rich they go elsewhere and the services they used create more unemployment. If we do go that route the pound will go down and borrowing will be more expensive. Labour's plan to rejuvenate the economy is by pushing the green agenda yet they are coy about how many jobs to be created in a tech industry suggesting we are not getting the whole agenda. I suspect an army of green inspectors will be empowered to intrusively enter homes to get insulation and other clean energy measures implemented or fines will be issued. industry |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 22, 2022 17:19:33 GMT
Afternoon Carty, Yes I genuinely believe that a majority in this country support the libertarian, right-wing views of both the Britannia Unchained types and the Reform party. Many of them won't be natural Tory voters and certainly won't see themselves as right-wing voters, but they will be disillusioned Labour voters who are absolutely sick of £billions of their tax pounds being spent on tens of thousands of illegals who cross the channel every year and the nagging feeling that ties with the EU are not being severed, in fact quite the reverse. Pro EU types will of course rubbish such claims, but the fact remains the EU and illegal immigration continue to be a big issue for many people who feel their concerns are being ignored, which is why support for Reform UK is surging. I am not an uncompromising right-wing voter, but I am an unashamed patriot which many on the left of the political spectrum consider to be far right. I will vote for the party who I think will put this country first and that's hardly likely to be the LibDems or Labour who are both pro EU pro open borders and pro mass immigration, and to be honest, on those points the Tories aren't doing very well right now either. My only gripe with Reform UK is the fact that Richard Tice supports PR, so I'm going to have to think long and hard before I vote for Reform. I think the time is right for a new party, a centre right/right wing party and it's got nothing to do with FPTP or PR. I think people are increasingly disillusioned with the LibLabCon. The Conservatives never put the Country first,we have just seen that with the Truss horror show giving money to millionaires with borrowed money,where did you get the idea they ever put the Country first,my mate had to be rushed into hospital on monday he spent hours on a trolley he said it was like a field hospital dressing station,but the staff were fantastic.thats what the Conservatives have done and you are fixated with immigrants. You're bound to say that, I'm bound to disagree. However you are correct in saying I'm 'fixated' by immigrants, or to be more accurate, very annoyed at the continued flood of illegals from the EU state of fuckin Frog. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 23, 2022 6:34:18 GMT
Since we spent £372bn on COV-ID under Bojo we don't have much economic room for manouvre. The chaps that move the markets use maths, its logic. This leaves fiscal policy and public spending as ways of addressing it. I can't see reductions in public spending working more likely to be fiscal measures. Am I the only one who thought we'd have to repay he money we borrowed for Covid? I fully expected tax rises to reduce the debt. |
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Post by colbops on Oct 23, 2022 17:00:40 GMT
Since we spent £372bn on COV-ID under Bojo we don't have much economic room for manouvre. The chaps that move the markets use maths, its logic. This leaves fiscal policy and public spending as ways of addressing it. I can't see reductions in public spending working more likely to be fiscal measures. Am I the only one who thought we'd have to repay he money we borrowed for Covid? I fully expected tax rises to reduce the debt. I didn't borrow any money for Covid. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 23, 2022 19:28:56 GMT
Am I the only one who thought we'd have to repay he money we borrowed for Covid? I fully expected tax rises to reduce the debt. I didn't borrow any money for Covid. Do you not live in this country? Are you not part of it? Have you not been blessed to live in our beautiful safe lawful well fed and educated country? |
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Post by thomas on Oct 24, 2022 7:03:53 GMT
I didn't borrow any money for Covid. Do you not live in this country? Are you not part of it? Have you not been blessed to live in our beautiful safe lawful well fed and educated country? The turd polishing isnt going very well zany is it? In a way , i do hope starmer and new labour win the next general election. Hopefully they carry on with the same outdated simplistic new labour ideas of two decades ago. It should see the end of that party for ever afterwards.
The spending on covid was fucking obscene , and not handled very well at all. I think that deserves a thread on its own.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 24, 2022 21:21:40 GMT
Do you not live in this country? Are you not part of it? Have you not been blessed to live in our beautiful safe lawful well fed and educated country? The turd polishing isnt going very well zany is it? In a way , i do hope starmer and new labour win the next general election. Hopefully they carry on with the same outdated simplistic new labour ideas of two decades ago. It should see the end of that party for ever afterwards.
The spending on covid was fucking obscene , and not handled very well at all. I think that deserves a thread on its own.
Please don't refer to my country as a turd, I love it very much. Is this how you talk in your uncivilised little rock pile? |
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Post by thomas on Oct 25, 2022 7:55:56 GMT
The turd polishing isnt going very well zany is it? In a way , i do hope starmer and new labour win the next general election. Hopefully they carry on with the same outdated simplistic new labour ideas of two decades ago. It should see the end of that party for ever afterwards.
The spending on covid was fucking obscene , and not handled very well at all. I think that deserves a thread on its own.
Please don't refer to my country as a turd, I love it very much. Is this how you talk in your uncivilised little rock pile? Im not reffering to your country , im quite obviously reffering to your piss poor attempts to sell tax increases for the various sacred public sector inefficient money pits.
Theres probably a number of people on this forum who could buy and sell you and all your chattels ten times over , yet you look down on most of us with contempt from your new labour ivory tower.
Must try harder zany.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 25, 2022 18:37:09 GMT
Please don't refer to my country as a turd, I love it very much. Is this how you talk in your uncivilised little rock pile? Im not reffering to your country , im quite obviously reffering to your piss poor attempts to sell tax increases for the various sacred public sector inefficient money pits.
Theres probably a number of people on this forum who could buy and sell you and all your chattels ten times over , yet you look down on most of us with contempt from your new labour ivory tower.
Must try harder zany.
Whatever. I gave up considering your opinion some while back when I realised you had issues. Most of the people want increases in taxes and public spending. |
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Post by Toreador on Oct 25, 2022 19:43:53 GMT
Im not reffering to your country , im quite obviously reffering to your piss poor attempts to sell tax increases for the various sacred public sector inefficient money pits.
Theres probably a number of people on this forum who could buy and sell you and all your chattels ten times over , yet you look down on most of us with contempt from your new labour ivory tower.
Must try harder zany.
Whatever. I gave up considering your opinion some while back when I realised you had issues. Most of the people want increases in taxes and public spending. I suspect most people would want taxes spent on well run government departments. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 25, 2022 21:22:26 GMT
Im not reffering to your country , im quite obviously reffering to your piss poor attempts to sell tax increases for the various sacred public sector inefficient money pits.
Theres probably a number of people on this forum who could buy and sell you and all your chattels ten times over , yet you look down on most of us with contempt from your new labour ivory tower. Must try harder zany.
Whatever. I gave up considering your opinion some while back when I realised you had issues. Most of the people want increases in taxes and public spending. so why don't they actually vote for parties promising that? |
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Post by thomas on Oct 26, 2022 6:49:50 GMT
Im not reffering to your country , im quite obviously reffering to your piss poor attempts to sell tax increases for the various sacred public sector inefficient money pits.
Theres probably a number of people on this forum who could buy and sell you and all your chattels ten times over , yet you look down on most of us with contempt from your new labour ivory tower.
Must try harder zany.
Most of the people want increases in taxes and public spending. proof? |
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Post by thomas on Oct 26, 2022 6:57:02 GMT
Whatever. I gave up considering your opinion some while back when I realised you had issues. Most of the people want increases in taxes and public spending. so why don't they actually vote for parties promising that? It is a wonder. Hasnt even starmer commited to austerity ?
Everyone i know wants more public spending and free stuff , but less taxation.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 26, 2022 7:05:28 GMT
so why don't they actually vote for parties promising that? It is a wonder. Hasnt even starmer commited to austerity ?
Everyone i know wants more public spending and free stuff , but less taxation.
I think the problem is that Zany has convinced himself in the face of reality that what he believes is right - rather like those who believe that the NHS is the envy of the civilized world.. Religion strikes again. Meanwhile people will not vote for higher taxes - even those on the forum who advocate higher taxes its always for someone else. Usually the 'tax the rich' nonesense that gets an airing every week.. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 26, 2022 7:15:12 GMT
It is a wonder. Hasnt even starmer commited to austerity ?
Everyone i know wants more public spending and free stuff , but less taxation.
I think the problem is that Zany has convinced himself in the face of reality that what he believes is right - rather like those who believe that the NHS is the envy of the civilized world.. Religion strikes again. Meanwhile people will not vote for higher taxes - even those on the forum who advocate higher taxes its always for someone else. Usually the 'tax the rich' nonesense that gets an airing every week.. Thats why i absolutely love the blairite new labour so called centrists and their moon howling lap dogs like zany. Reality , and their delusional bubble world of new labour dogmatic tripe is sort of like a cult where the members worship at the altar of la la land.
I and everyone who doesnt support new labour wish starmer would stand on a tax the plebs till the pips squeak pledge , but i doubt even keir starmer is that stupid.
Its always the same with these reality deniers in new labour.....tax and spend tax and spend. We saw labour when last in power doing that very thing , and the collosul waste of taxpayers cash. Its like putting the 5 years old in charge of the household budget.
For example , the journalist Lesley Riddoch was talking only yesterday about new labours wastefullness and legacy to the english taxpayer from when last in power .......
Lesley Riddoch
@lesleyriddoch
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23h
English NHS trusts spent £500 bn on (PFI) contract interest charges in 2021 = 15k new nurses. Payments index-linked so inflation means taxpayer bill will soar till 2048. SNP stopped PFI in 2007 as Labour was expanding prog in England. Just saying.
NHS hospital trusts paying hundreds of millions in interest to private firms
Exclusive: Guardian analysis of hospital trust accounts found 101 owe about £50bn in future unitary PFI payments
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