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Post by see2 on Jan 16, 2023 10:54:28 GMT
That is one insulting and lying post from you AND COUNTING. Listen matey. It is clear that you don't like me and in response I don't like you. Even when I attempted to bury the hatchet at Christmas in a spirit of goodwill, you threw it back in my face with contempt. We are never going to get on. The most constructive thing we could do at this point is just to put each other on ignore, but I am never going to do that unilaterally. I think you are a pompous and arrogant individual with active disdain for anyone who doesn't see things your way, prone to mislabelling people, utterly blinkered and unable to think outside your Blairite box and apparently believing that New Labour is infallible, as if Blair is the frigging pope, lol. There are people on this forum whose politics I disagree with much more than yours, yet nowhere do I get such total hostility as I do from you. It is becoming most tiresome Another personal attack. NOTED AND COUNTING.
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Post by see2 on Jan 16, 2023 11:17:40 GMT
Add to that the lies from those who wanted Brexit and you more than prove my point. Thank you. Would you care to furnish me, and indeed the forum, with a small selection of the lies you mention? Not particularly because you are not too stupid as to not be aware of them at the time. A Brexit activist on the Sunday morning live TV show. "the EU is run by unelected people". During a debate on the EU Farage accused Merkel of letting in asylum seekers, which had nothing to do with EU policy. The screening of a column of asylum seekers insinuating they were EU citizens on a FoM trek. The insinuated lie that 500million citizens of the EU could enter the UK on FoM. That the money saved from being a member would/could be spent on the NHS. Then there were silly lies like 'Bent Bananas'. All we need to do is leave and things would be great. Genuine concerns were nothing more than 'project fear'. I'm sure there are many more but it is some time since I gave them any thought.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 16, 2023 11:23:41 GMT
Would you care to furnish me, and indeed the forum, with a small selection of the lies you mention? Not particularly because you are not too stupid as to not be aware of them at the time. A Brexit activist on the Sunday morning live TV show. "the EU is run by unelected people". During a debate on the EU Farage accused Merkel of letting in asylum seekers, which had nothing to do with EU policy. The screening of a column of asylum seekers insinuating they were EU citizens on a FoM trek. The insinuated lie that 500million citizens of the EU could enter the UK on FoM. That the money saved from being a member would/could be spent on the NHS. Then there were silly lies like 'Bent Bananas'. All we need to do is leave and things would be great. Genuine concerns were nothing more than 'project fear'. I'm sure there are many more but it is some time since I gave them any thought. I will have to get back to the points you raise later I'm afraid. She who must be obeyed is patiently waiting for me, and her patience is not inexhaustible, lol.
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Post by see2 on Jan 16, 2023 11:30:59 GMT
Not particularly because you are not too stupid as to not be aware of them at the time. A Brexit activist on the Sunday morning live TV show. "the EU is run by unelected people". During a debate on the EU Farage accused Merkel of letting in asylum seekers, which had nothing to do with EU policy. The screening of a column of asylum seekers insinuating they were EU citizens on a FoM trek. The insinuated lie that 500million citizens of the EU could enter the UK on FoM. That the money saved from being a member would/could be spent on the NHS. Then there were silly lies like 'Bent Bananas'. All we need to do is leave and things would be great. Genuine concerns were nothing more than 'project fear'. I'm sure there are many more but it is some time since I gave them any thought. I will have to get back to the points you raise later I'm afraid. She who must be obeyed is patiently waiting for me, and her patience is not inexhaustible, lol. And I might need to get back to your original claims.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 17, 2023 11:44:20 GMT
Would you care to furnish me, and indeed the forum, with a small selection of the lies you mention? Not particularly because you are not too stupid as to not be aware of them at the time. A Brexit activist on the Sunday morning live TV show. "the EU is run by unelected people". During a debate on the EU Farage accused Merkel of letting in asylum seekers, which had nothing to do with EU policy. The screening of a column of asylum seekers insinuating they were EU citizens on a FoM trek. The insinuated lie that 500million citizens of the EU could enter the UK on FoM. That the money saved from being a member would/could be spent on the NHS. Then there were silly lies like 'Bent Bananas'. All we need to do is leave and things would be great. Genuine concerns were nothing more than 'project fear'. I'm sure there are many more but it is some time since I gave them any thought. Well tbh, I was thinking about lies from our elected representatives rather than anonymous 'activists', however since you mention "the EU is run by unelected people" I'll start with that. See2, the most powerful body within the EU is the commission, it is also the only body who has the power to propose EU legislation. Like the president of Europe the commission is unelected, it operates in almost total secrecy, and EU commissioners are totally shielded from any form of electoral scrutiny. You may call that democratic, but when you look at it, the EU commission has quite a lot in common with the Soviet politburo. You claim Merkel's policy of allowing in millions of asylum seekers, economic migrants, gangsters vagrants and terrorists had nothing to do with the EU. May I remind you, it was not Merkel who opened job centres in Africa, although it must be said she enthusiastically approved, it was the EU - foreignersinuk.co.uk/news/europe-a-world-news/second-eu-job-center-in-africa/Your other points are a tad vague at best.
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Post by see2 on Jan 17, 2023 13:49:52 GMT
Not particularly because you are not too stupid as to not be aware of them at the time. A Brexit activist on the Sunday morning live TV show. "the EU is run by unelected people". During a debate on the EU Farage accused Merkel of letting in asylum seekers, which had nothing to do with EU policy. The screening of a column of asylum seekers insinuating they were EU citizens on a FoM trek. The insinuated lie that 500million citizens of the EU could enter the UK on FoM. That the money saved from being a member would/could be spent on the NHS. Then there were silly lies like 'Bent Bananas'. All we need to do is leave and things would be great. Genuine concerns were nothing more than 'project fear'. I'm sure there are many more but it is some time since I gave them any thought. Well tbh, I was thinking about lies from our elected representatives rather than anonymous 'activists', however since you mention "the EU is run by unelected people" I'll start with that. See2, the most powerful body within the EU is the commission, it is also the only body who has the power to propose EU legislation. Like the president of Europe the commission is unelected, it operates in almost total secrecy, and EU commissioners are totally shielded from any form of electoral scrutiny. You may call that democratic, but when you look at it, the EU commission has quite a lot in common with the Soviet politburo. The Commission Was the only body that was designed to propose changes, I believe the EUP has been given the right to propose changes to the Commission. The Commission was designed to do the donkey work on changes needed or wanted. Their job along with their 'civil service' did the research asked the questions and did the legal work on possible new proposals. Proposals were then passed on to the Committee for acceptance or rejection, after disputes, any changes needed and further consideration it is either kicked into the long grass or passed on the the Parliament for final acceptance. That sounds far more democratic than what goes on in the UK. To my Knowledge all members of the Commission, Committee and the Parliament are from elected people in EU member countries.
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Post by see2 on Jan 17, 2023 13:54:06 GMT
Not particularly because you are not too stupid as to not be aware of them at the time. A Brexit activist on the Sunday morning live TV show. "the EU is run by unelected people". During a debate on the EU Farage accused Merkel of letting in asylum seekers, which had nothing to do with EU policy. The screening of a column of asylum seekers insinuating they were EU citizens on a FoM trek. The insinuated lie that 500million citizens of the EU could enter the UK on FoM. That the money saved from being a member would/could be spent on the NHS. Then there were silly lies like 'Bent Bananas'. All we need to do is leave and things would be great. Genuine concerns were nothing more than 'project fear'. I'm sure there are many more but it is some time since I gave them any thought. Well tbh, I was thinking about lies from our elected representatives rather than anonymous 'activists', however since you mention "the EU is run by unelected people" I'll start with that. See2, the most powerful body within the EU is the commission, it is also the only body who has the power to propose EU legislation. Like the president of Europe the commission is unelected, it operates in almost total secrecy, and EU commissioners are totally shielded from any form of electoral scrutiny. You may call that democratic, but when you look at it, the EU commission has quite a lot in common with the Soviet politburo. You claim Merkel's policy of allowing in millions of asylum seekers, economic migrants, gangsters vagrants and terrorists had nothing to do with the EU. May I remind you, it was not Merkel who opened job centres in Africa, although it must be said she enthusiastically approved, it was the EU - foreignersinuk.co.uk/news/europe-a-world-news/second-eu-job-center-in-africa/Your other points are a tad vague at best. "Due to the ever-increasing amounts of sensitive non-classified and European Union classified information (‘EUCI’) that the institutions, bodies, offices and agencies of the Union need to share between themselves and considering the dramatic development of the threat landscape, the European administration is exposed to attack in all of its areas of activity. The information handled by our institutions, bodies, offices and agencies has high value for many different threat actors and needs appropriate protection. Member States have already called on our institutions to move in this direction. A key feature of the Strategic Agenda for 2019-2024 adopted by the European Council in June 2019 is to protect our societies from the threats targeting the information handled by the European administration. In its conclusions, the European Council called on ‘the EU institutions, together with the Member States, to work on measures to enhance the resilience and improve the security culture of the EU against cyber and hybrid threats from outside the EU, and to better protect the EU’s information and communication networks, and its decision-making processes, from malicious activities of all kinds’" commission.europa.eu/about-european-commission/service-standards-and-principles/security-commission_en
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Post by see2 on Jan 17, 2023 14:14:13 GMT
Not particularly because you are not too stupid as to not be aware of them at the time. A Brexit activist on the Sunday morning live TV show. "the EU is run by unelected people". During a debate on the EU Farage accused Merkel of letting in asylum seekers, which had nothing to do with EU policy. The screening of a column of asylum seekers insinuating they were EU citizens on a FoM trek. The insinuated lie that 500million citizens of the EU could enter the UK on FoM. That the money saved from being a member would/could be spent on the NHS. Then there were silly lies like 'Bent Bananas'. All we need to do is leave and things would be great. Genuine concerns were nothing more than 'project fear'. I'm sure there are many more but it is some time since I gave them any thought. You claim Merkel's policy of allowing in millions of asylum seekers, economic migrants, gangsters vagrants and terrorists had nothing to do with the EU. May I remind you, it was not Merkel who opened job centres in Africa, although it must be said she enthusiastically approved, it was the EU - foreignersinuk.co.uk/news/europe-a-world-news/second-eu-job-center-in-africa/Your other points are a tad vague at best. The EU had no control over the rights of asylum seekers, so you really shouldn't continue the false claims against Merkel. Europe was overwhelmed by the numbers of asylum seekers, separating the wheat from the chaff was an impossibility. 0ne that you prefer to ignore because you wish to wrongly use it to attack the EU with. My other points refer to much of the nonsense noise coming from leavers. All part of the misinformation that played a part of the dishonesty of the Referendum and why we should avoid such nonsense in the future.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 17, 2023 14:23:45 GMT
The Commission Was the only body that was designed to propose changes, I believe the EUP has been given the right to propose changes to the Commission. The Commission was designed to do the donkey work on changes needed or wanted. Their job along with their 'civil service' did the research asked the questions and did the legal work on possible new proposals. Proposals were then passed on to the Committee for acceptance or rejection, after disputes, any changes needed and further consideration it is either kicked into the long grass or passed on the the Parliament for final acceptance. That sounds far more democratic than what goes on in the UK. To my Knowledge all members of the Commission, Committee and the Parliament are from elected people in EU member countries The EU Commission does not propose changes, it proposes new legislation. The elected EU parliament can propose changes to new legislation from the unelected Commission, but the commission is not obliged to accept those changes. This shows where true power within the EU lies, with the unelected commission rather than the elected parliament. The EU parliament is like no parliament anywhere in the world. Whoever heard of a parliament that had no power to propose new legislation. If you have a look at the law making process in the UK you may find it's a damned sight more democratic and goes through a lot more scrutiny before achieving Royal Assent.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 17, 2023 14:32:20 GMT
You claim Merkel's policy of allowing in millions of asylum seekers, economic migrants, gangsters vagrants and terrorists had nothing to do with the EU. May I remind you, it was not Merkel who opened job centres in Africa, although it must be said she enthusiastically approved, it was the EU - foreignersinuk.co.uk/news/europe-a-world-news/second-eu-job-center-in-africa/Your other points are a tad vague at best. The EU had no control over the rights of asylum seekers, so you really shouldn't continue the false claims against Merkel. Europe was overwhelmed by the numbers of asylum seekers, separating the wheat from the chaff was an impossibility. 0ne that you prefer to ignore because you wish to wrongly use it to attack the EU with. My other points refer to much of the nonsense noise coming from leavers. All part of the misinformation that played a part of the dishonesty of the Referendum and why we should avoid such nonsense in the future. Don't you remember people in Germany complaining about the immigrant invasion? 2014/15 ish. And Merkel famously said "Wir Schaffen Das" we can manage. Then a couple of years later she said she wished she could turn back the clock. No kidding. She has now retired into a life of tax payer funded luxury and left other people to deal with the disaster she helped create.
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Post by see2 on Jan 17, 2023 22:49:57 GMT
The Commission Was the only body that was designed to propose changes, I believe the EUP has been given the right to propose changes to the Commission. The Commission was designed to do the donkey work on changes needed or wanted. Their job along with their 'civil service' did the research asked the questions and did the legal work on possible new proposals. Proposals were then passed on to the Committee for acceptance or rejection, after disputes, any changes needed and further consideration it is either kicked into the long grass or passed on the the Parliament for final acceptance. That sounds far more democratic than what goes on in the UK. To my Knowledge all members of the Commission, Committee and the Parliament are from elected people in EU member countries The EU Commission does not propose changes, it proposes new legislation. The elected EU parliament can propose changes to new legislation from the unelected Commission, but the commission is not obliged to accept those changes. This shows where true power within the EU lies, with the unelected commission rather than the elected parliament. The EU parliament is like no parliament anywhere in the world. Whoever heard of a parliament that had no power to propose new legislation. If you have a look at the law making process in the UK you may find it's a damned sight more democratic and goes through a lot more scrutiny before achieving Royal Assent. See first item second row down for role of the committee. Short article. www.europarl.europa.eu/committees/en/homeEuropean Council The European Council (informally EUCO) is a collegiate body that defines the overall political direction and priorities of the European Union. It is composed of the heads of state or government of the EU member states, the President of the European Council, and the President of the European Commission. Decision-making process The European Council mostly takes its decisions by consensus. However, in certain specific cases outlined in the EU treaties, it decides by unanimity or by qualified majority. If a vote is taken, neither the European Council President nor the Commission President take part.Since the institution is composed of national leaders, it gathers the executive power of the member states and has thus a great influence in high-profile policy areas as for example foreign policy . It also exercises powers of appointment, such as appointment of its own President, the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, and the President of the European Central Bank. It proposes, to the European Parliament, a candidate for President of the European Commission. Moreover, the European Council influences police and justice planning, the composition of the commission, matters relating to the organisation of the rotating Council presidency, the suspension of membership rights, and changing the voting systems through the Passerelle Clause. Although the European Council has no direct legislative power, under the "emergency brake" procedure, a state outvoted in the Council of Ministers may refer contentious legislation to the European Council. However, the state may still be outvoted in the European Council. Hence with powers over the supranational executive of the EU, in addition to its other powers, the European Council has been described by some as the Union's "supreme political authority". Composition The European Council consists of the heads of state or government of the member states, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Council#:~:text=European%20Council%20The%20European%20Council%20%28informally%20EUCO%29%20is,Council%2C%20and%20the%20President%20of%20the%20European%20Commission.
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Post by see2 on Jan 17, 2023 23:17:12 GMT
The EU had no control over the rights of asylum seekers, so you really shouldn't continue the false claims against Merkel. Europe was overwhelmed by the numbers of asylum seekers, separating the wheat from the chaff was an impossibility. 0ne that you prefer to ignore because you wish to wrongly use it to attack the EU with. My other points refer to much of the nonsense noise coming from leavers. All part of the misinformation that played a part of the dishonesty of the Referendum and why we should avoid such nonsense in the future. Don't you remember people in Germany complaining about the immigrant invasion? 2014/15 ish. And Merkel famously said "Wir Schaffen Das" we can manage. Then a couple of years later she said she wished she could turn back the clock. No kidding. She has now retired into a life of tax payer funded luxury and left other people to deal with the disaster she helped create. What immigrant invasion, the only immigrant invasion I'm aware of is that by asylum seekers.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 18, 2023 0:11:24 GMT
Don't you remember people in Germany complaining about the immigrant invasion? 2014/15 ish. And Merkel famously said "Wir Schaffen Das" we can manage. Then a couple of years later she said she wished she could turn back the clock. No kidding. She has now retired into a life of tax payer funded luxury and left other people to deal with the disaster she helped create. What immigrant invasion, the only immigrant invasion I'm aware of is that by asylum seekers. Why do you suppose Herr Merkel said she wished she could turn the clock back? And ffs, stop cutting & pasting. Clearly you have no idea how the EU works.
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Post by see2 on Jan 18, 2023 9:54:39 GMT
The Commission Was the only body that was designed to propose changes, I believe the EUP has been given the right to propose changes to the Commission. The Commission was designed to do the donkey work on changes needed or wanted. Their job along with their 'civil service' did the research asked the questions and did the legal work on possible new proposals. Proposals were then passed on to the Committee for acceptance or rejection, after disputes, any changes needed and further consideration it is either kicked into the long grass or passed on the the Parliament for final acceptance. That sounds far more democratic than what goes on in the UK. To my Knowledge all members of the Commission, Committee and the Parliament are from elected people in EU member countries The EU Commission does not propose changes, it proposes new legislation. The elected EU parliament can propose changes to new legislation from the unelected Commission, but the commission is not obliged to accept those changes. This shows where true power within the EU lies, with the unelected commission rather than the elected parliament. The EU parliament is like no parliament anywhere in the world. Whoever heard of a parliament that had no power to propose new legislation. If you have a look at the law making process in the UK you may find it's a damned sight more democratic and goes through a lot more scrutiny before achieving Royal Assent. If the Laws or modifications to the laws proposed by the Commission are accepted THEN CHANGES TAKE PLACE. "Not obliged" is correct, but if changes / modifications are not made then the proposal goes no further. It has hit an intended blank wall. Any new legislation can be rejected by the Parliament. The Commission is made up of MPs from the EU member countries, just as the Parliament is.
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Post by see2 on Jan 18, 2023 10:05:31 GMT
What immigrant invasion, the only immigrant invasion I'm aware of is that by asylum seekers. Why do you suppose Herr Merkel said she wished she could turn the clock back? And ffs, stop cutting & pasting. Clearly you have no idea how the EU works. You have a very strong misinformed belief on how the EU works. I cut and past the obvious so that you don't confuse facts with your beliefs. Merkel is like king Canute, she has no magical powers. Hindsight gives a wonderful attacking position for those who wish to attack, but neither you or anyone else has come up with a perfect way of dealing with the deluge of asylum seekers at that time, and have still not found and answer all these years later. It depends on just how far she would turn the clock back if she could. A time before the asylum problem would be good.
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