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Post by research0it on Jan 5, 2023 12:18:56 GMT
1) Scotland isn't going to leave our united sovereign country, ever. And 2), as devolution has happened albeit unfairly, this thread is about territories of Scotland who contribute taxes towards Scotland, who are not being represented in the devolved Parliament. Hi vinny You're a strange one. I can't think of anyone who is so passionate about Scotland NOT leaving the uk. Why? Your answer will be instructive to me. Here's a hint. Why emotionally not technically. That is how you feel, not what you think is fair. Secondly taxes aren't moved about by the uk government. The uk government borrows to cover the costs of the regions where the taxes don't cover the costs of public services, then ALL taxes service that debt. So, taking scotland specifically. I'll go to the time before covid as that will represent more accurately the true position of all, long term. So scotland had an assessed deficit of @ 12.6 billion. To cover that debt, the uk would borrow 12.6 billion. The interest on that borrowing would be around 250 milion back then. Probably about 400 million now. We deduct the 8.4 % of that debt that Scottish taxes would service. Leaves about 228 million or 366 million to be serviced by the 61 million people in the remainder of the uk. Per year. Or around 4 pound or 6 pounds per head per year. It's not in fact even as much as that as quite a lot of Scotland's costs are actually charges by the uk to scotland and the money is not actually spent in Scotland. Boosting economic activity and taxes outside scotland. Mainly London. For that you're getting all those resources, that don't appear as assets on any of the above calculations. Hi vinny Are you a dodger of hard questions? |
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Post by thomas on Jan 5, 2023 12:35:37 GMT
Hi vinny You're a strange one. I can't think of anyone who is so passionate about Scotland NOT leaving the uk. Why? Your answer will be instructive to me. Here's a hint. Why emotionally not technically. That is how you feel, not what you think is fair. Secondly taxes aren't moved about by the uk government. The uk government borrows to cover the costs of the regions where the taxes don't cover the costs of public services, then ALL taxes service that debt. So, taking scotland specifically. I'll go to the time before covid as that will represent more accurately the true position of all, long term. So scotland had an assessed deficit of @ 12.6 billion. To cover that debt, the uk would borrow 12.6 billion. The interest on that borrowing would be around 250 milion back then. Probably about 400 million now. We deduct the 8.4 % of that debt that Scottish taxes would service. Leaves about 228 million or 366 million to be serviced by the 61 million people in the remainder of the uk. Per year. Or around 4 pound or 6 pounds per head per year. It's not in fact even as much as that as quite a lot of Scotland's costs are actually charges by the uk to scotland and the money is not actually spent in Scotland. Boosting economic activity and taxes outside scotland. Mainly London. For that you're getting all those resources, that don't appear as assets on any of the above calculations. Hi vinny Are you a dodger of hard questions? to be fair to vinny , he isnt the only one. When personal fantasy comes up against reality , its common for the poster to run away.
You only need to look at forum member happy jack on the scottish threads , who not only thinks there is a uk law , but doesnt know the difference between legislators in various parliaments passing legislation , and that then being passed into each countries law.
I do believe in the universal vote , but at times , that belief is sorely tested.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 5, 2023 15:04:27 GMT
The UK is a country a union of states, like the USA. Scotland, is a member state.
Get over your passport being British rather than Scottish.
You are British. It doesn't matter what territories Scotland has outside Scotland because they are British. That's the important thing to take from this conversation.
You're the same as me, one man one vote.
But you want to have your cake and eat it, you can't.
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Post by thomas on Jan 5, 2023 15:11:03 GMT
The UK is a country a union of states, like the USA. Scotland, is a member state. wrong way around. The uk is a (multi national ) state made up of countries.
mine is actually still european , and it describes me as a uk citizen , which is the same as someone from gibraltar or the falklands.
as a norwegian is scandinavian...
well we were talking about england , and england is only one country that makes up 40 % of the british isles.
?
ah ok vinny
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Post by research0it on Jan 5, 2023 16:37:24 GMT
The UK is a country a union of states, like the USA. Scotland, is a member state. Get over your passport being British rather than Scottish. You are British. It doesn't matter what territories Scotland has outside Scotland because they are British. That's the important thing to take from this conversation. You're the same as me, one man one vote. But you want to have your cake and eat it, you can't. Hi vinny This post of meaningless statements just fuel my belief that you're more than a bit obsessed with scotland not leaving the uk. Why? Are you so obsessed? |
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Post by happyjack on Jan 5, 2023 19:58:26 GMT
The UK is a country a union of states, like the USA. Scotland, is a member state. wrong way around. The uk is a (multi national ) state made up of countries.
Both wrong, I am afraid, although not surprising given the deluge of misinformation that we have all been subjected to throughout our lives. The UK is a country made up of various territories each of which, at one time or another, used to be something else but are now just territories within the country of UK.
mine is actually still european , and it describes me as a uk citizen , which is the same as someone from gibraltar or the falklands.
That sounds very unusual. I had no idea such things existed so it makes me wonder if you are a bit confused on this point. If you are referring to the old red passports with the crown insignia on the front cover and with both “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland” and “European Union” printed above the insignia, and with a request from Her Britannic Majesty’s Secretary of State in the name of Her Majesty to allow you to pass without hinderance on the inside face of the front cover, then that is a UK passport. That’s what I have although mine describes me as a British citizen, not a UK citizen.
as a norwegian is scandinavian...
No, nothing like as Norwegian is Scandinavian but exactly like as Scottish is British.
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Post by morayloon on Jan 5, 2023 20:57:37 GMT
wrong way around. The uk is a (multi national ) state made up of countries. The UK is a country made up of various territories each of which, at one time or another, used to be something else but are now just territories within the country of UK. And with that bullshit about Scotland not being a country. an integral country of the UK state, my suspicion is proven but the question remains "What was her name again"? ( course, could be his) |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 5, 2023 21:14:53 GMT
Florida is a state, California is a state, Texas is a state the USA is a country.
Scotland is a state, England is a state, the UK is a country.
And the UK is here to stay.
The expressed will of Scotland is to remain part of the UK.
And the expressed will of the UK is to be independent.
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Post by research0it on Jan 5, 2023 21:56:12 GMT
Florida is a state, California is a state, Texas is a state the USA is a country. Scotland is a state, England is a state, the UK is a country. And the UK is here to stay. The expressed will of Scotland is to remain part of the UK. And the expressed will of the UK is to be independent. Hi vinny Is there any chance you can cut out those meaningless, obsessive statements, and tell me why you're so obsessed with scotland remaining in the UK. ? |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 6, 2023 10:38:22 GMT
I am defending the 2 million Scots who want to stay in the UK.
You are supporting those who want to ride roughshod over them Trumpstyle.
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Post by research0it on Jan 6, 2023 10:54:26 GMT
I am defending the 2 million Scots who want to stay in the UK. You are supporting those who want to ride roughshod over them Trumpstyle. Hi vinny I'm not defending anyone. I just want to know why you seem so obsessed by it. If you remember, I wanted the emotional reason, not technical. The above is a contrived technical reason that may or may not be true but further demonstrates your obsession with keeping scotland in the UK. My own view is that scotland should not be independent until there is a settled majority of people within it's borders supporting it. I don't support it - yet. By emotional, I mean that you clearly don't WANT scotland to be independent. All your posts about 2 million people, definitions of states, countries and nations and what they mean, what a generation is and what was meant by words and writings, writtenn long ago, are the technical reasons you use to justify your emotional response. I want to know the emotional reasons It's for your own good. Maybe the reasons folk cross the street when they see you, whispering to each other could be stopped, if you look inside your soul and answer that one. |
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Post by jaydee on Jan 6, 2023 11:09:36 GMT
And with that bullshit about Scotland not being a country. an integral country of the UK state, my suspicion is proven but the question remains "What was her name again"? ( course, could be his) Nae prob.. I will ask him. Hello happyjack what was your name on the old forum. Mines was Jaydee. ML was the same.. Surprise surprise.. Sooner or later as has just happened to me, less than 10 minutes ago. . Toredor made a stupid comment and it was a immediate penny drop. sallyforth. You will say something and the penny will also drop |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 6, 2023 11:29:54 GMT
1) Scotland isn't going to leave our united sovereign country, ever. And 2), as devolution has happened albeit unfairly, this thread is about territories of Scotland who contribute taxes towards Scotland, who are not being represented in the devolved Parliament. Hi vinny You're a strange one. I can't think of anyone who is so passionate about Scotland NOT leaving the uk. Why? Your answer will be instructive to me. Here's a hint. Why emotionally not technically. That is how you feel, not what you think is fair. Secondly taxes aren't moved about by the uk government. The uk government borrows to cover the costs of the regions where the taxes don't cover the costs of public services, then ALL taxes service that debt. So, taking scotland specifically. I'll go to the time before covid as that will represent more accurately the true position of all, long term. So scotland had an assessed deficit of @ 12.6 billion.
To cover that debt, the uk would borrow 12.6 billion.
The interest on that borrowing would be around 250 milion back then. Probably about 400 million now. We deduct the 8.4 % of that debt that Scottish taxes would service. Leaves about 228 million or 366 million to be serviced by the 61 million people in the remainder of the uk. Per year. Or around 4 pound or 6 pounds per head per year. It's not in fact even as much as that as quite a lot of Scotland's costs are actually charges by the uk to scotland and the money is not actually spent in Scotland. Boosting economic activity and taxes outside scotland. Mainly London. For that you're getting all those resources, that don't appear as assets on any of the above calculations. Deficit and debt are 2 entirely different things.. |
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Post by research0it on Jan 6, 2023 12:40:20 GMT
Hi vinny You're a strange one. I can't think of anyone who is so passionate about Scotland NOT leaving the uk. Why? Your answer will be instructive to me. Here's a hint. Why emotionally not technically. That is how you feel, not what you think is fair. Secondly taxes aren't moved about by the uk government. The uk government borrows to cover the costs of the regions where the taxes don't cover the costs of public services, then ALL taxes service that debt. So, taking scotland specifically. I'll go to the time before covid as that will represent more accurately the true position of all, long term. So scotland had an assessed deficit of @ 12.6 billion.
To cover that debt, the uk would borrow 12.6 billion.
The interest on that borrowing would be around 250 milion back then. Probably about 400 million now. We deduct the 8.4 % of that debt that Scottish taxes would service. Leaves about 228 million or 366 million to be serviced by the 61 million people in the remainder of the uk. Per year. Or around 4 pound or 6 pounds per head per year. It's not in fact even as much as that as quite a lot of Scotland's costs are actually charges by the uk to scotland and the money is not actually spent in Scotland. Boosting economic activity and taxes outside scotland. Mainly London. For that you're getting all those resources, that don't appear as assets on any of the above calculations. Deficit and debt are 2 entirely different things.. Hi pacifico I know. The deficit contributes to the debt and builds it up. So the cost per year will accumulate. Did I not make that clear? Remember, however, that scotland had a large surplus for the 70's and 80's, a mixture of small surpluses and deficits in the 90's and small deficit until about 2008 and I have taken no account of that. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 6, 2023 13:29:20 GMT
Deficit and debt are 2 entirely different things.. Hi pacifico I know. The deficit contributes to the debt and builds it up. So the cost per year will accumulate. Did I not make that clear? Remember, however, that scotland had a large surplus for the 70's and 80's, a mixture of small surpluses and deficits in the 90's and small deficit until about 2008 and I have taken no account of that. I think you are trying to calculate something that is incalculable. Whether Scotland has a deficit or surplus has in recent decades been dependent on oil prices - sometimes its in surplus sometimes in deficit. However the National debt, of which Scotland is responsible for part of, was built up over 300 years - so determining whether overall Scotlands contribution was in surplus or deficit is something that I doubt anyone can calculate accurately. |
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