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Post by see2 on Jan 18, 2023 9:26:31 GMT
That's a basic graph with waiting times according to a lobby group. Nothing to do with improving health outcomes for NHS patients Anyone disagreeing with See2 is posting mere opinions, which are naturally wrong if he disagrees with them. As if posting one's opinion on a politics forum is somehow invalid. Anyone agreeing with him though is clearly stating facts. Lol. Have you noticed the same pattern in his assumptions? That is FOUR personal attacks NOTED AND COUNTING. Four personal attacks without one single personal attack in response. And you want me to give it a "rest". You are pushing me towards doing something I have avoided doing so far. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2023 9:56:23 GMT
Anyone disagreeing with See2 is posting mere opinions, which are naturally wrong if he disagrees with them. As if posting one's opinion on a politics forum is somehow invalid. Anyone agreeing with him though is clearly stating facts. Lol. Have you noticed the same pattern in his assumptions? That is FOUR personal attacks NOTED AND COUNTING. Four personal attacks without one single personal attack in response. And you want me to give it a "rest". You are pushing me towards doing something I have avoided doing so far. That was not a personal attack. It was a description of your conduct and modus operandi. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 18, 2023 11:37:56 GMT
Well currently it's about £30,000 for every extra year gained by the treatment. Sorry Pacifico, I don't understand this number, can you explain more? Any new drugs and treatments are assessed by NICE with regards to their cost and effectiveness - they are ranked as to how they cost compared to a Quality Adjusted Life Year. Only those drugs and treatments costing less than £30k to give that extra year of quality life are approved for use in the NHS. How NICE measures value for money in relation to public health interventions |
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Post by see2 on Jan 18, 2023 12:10:28 GMT
That is FOUR personal attacks NOTED AND COUNTING. Four personal attacks without one single personal attack in response. And you want me to give it a "rest". You are pushing me towards doing something I have avoided doing so far. That was not a personal attack. It was a description of your conduct and modus operandi. It was your derogative opinion aimed at me. i.e. A personal attack. |
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Post by Toreador on Jan 18, 2023 12:41:11 GMT
Sorry Pacifico, I don't understand this number, can you explain more? Any new drugs and treatments are assessed by NICE with regards to their cost and effectiveness - they are ranked as to how they cost compared to a Quality Adjusted Life Year. Only those drugs and treatments costing less than £30k to give that extra year of quality life are approved for use in the NHS. How NICE measures value for money in relation to public health interventionsPrecisely so, in fact some drug therapy has been withdrawn on that basis, usually amid protest. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 18, 2023 20:22:56 GMT
Sorry Pacifico, I don't understand this number, can you explain more? Any new drugs and treatments are assessed by NICE with regards to their cost and effectiveness - they are ranked as to how they cost compared to a Quality Adjusted Life Year. Only those drugs and treatments costing less than £30k to give that extra year of quality life are approved for use in the NHS. How NICE measures value for money in relation to public health interventionsAh, thank you. I didn't know that. What happens when there are more new drugs, procedures, scans, tests than there is budget? |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 18, 2023 22:15:58 GMT
Ah, thank you. I didn't know that. What happens when there are more new drugs, procedures, scans, tests than there is budget? Then the threshold reduces - £30k becomes £20k. Anything that NICE approves has to be available to patients - otherwise the NHS opens itself up to legal action. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 18, 2023 23:12:03 GMT
Ah, thank you. I didn't know that. What happens when there are more new drugs, procedures, scans, tests than there is budget? Then the threshold reduces - £30k becomes £20k. Anything that NICE approves has to be available to patients - otherwise the NHS opens itself up to legal action. Yet every year the budget goes up. Taking inflation aside I would suggest this is in good part the ever increasing number of things we can treat. For clarity my wife left the NHS in 2008. But while she was part of the neuro team barely a month went by there wasn't some wonderful new miracle treatment she was discussing with me. (She's a clever lady) I remember her going on a 5 day lecture tour to talk about a discovery she personally made regarding blood flow across the brain in patients with permanent dreadful headaches. Anyway enough about the gorgeous Mrs Zany  Question is where does it stop, I can see how treatments for rare conditions that are too expensive might be stopped, but what happens when you find a treatment for dementia? That's what keeps happening, cancer is a good example with things like ovarian cancer deaths falling by 40+% Most of this is due to breakthroughs from research. I'm genuinely interested in how we deal with this (not just winning the argument) as I see no end to to things that keep more and more of us alive for longer and longer at higher and higher cost. |
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Post by dodgydave on Jan 19, 2023 2:01:48 GMT
Then the threshold reduces - £30k becomes £20k. Anything that NICE approves has to be available to patients - otherwise the NHS opens itself up to legal action. Yet every year the budget goes up. Taking inflation aside I would suggest this is in good part the ever increasing number of things we can treat. For clarity my wife left the NHS in 2008. But while she was part of the neuro team barely a month went by there wasn't some wonderful new miracle treatment she was discussing with me. (She's a clever lady) I remember her going on a 5 day lecture tour to talk about a discovery she personally made regarding blood flow across the brain in patients with permanent dreadful headaches. Anyway enough about the gorgeous Mrs Zany Question is where does it stop, I can see how treatments for rare conditions that are too expensive might be stopped, but what happens when you find a treatment for dementia? That's what keeps happening, cancer is a good example with things like ovarian cancer deaths falling by 40+% Most of this is due to breakthroughs from research. I'm genuinely interested in how we deal with this (not just winning the argument) as I see no end to to things that keep more and more of us alive for longer and longer at higher and higher cost. The starting point would be an honest conversation about the true costs of healthcare. However we have politicians that lack the back bone to start that conversation, and even worse, an electorate who want to bury their head in the sand and claim the Tory desire to privatize the NHS is why it is failing. The predictions are that within a 100 years dying of old age will cease to be a thing. People will be living for hundreds of years, so we need to start changing the way our societies work. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 19, 2023 7:54:29 GMT
Then the threshold reduces - £30k becomes £20k. Anything that NICE approves has to be available to patients - otherwise the NHS opens itself up to legal action. Yet every year the budget goes up. Taking inflation aside I would suggest this is in good part the ever increasing number of things we can treat. For clarity my wife left the NHS in 2008. But while she was part of the neuro team barely a month went by there wasn't some wonderful new miracle treatment she was discussing with me. (She's a clever lady) I remember her going on a 5 day lecture tour to talk about a discovery she personally made regarding blood flow across the brain in patients with permanent dreadful headaches. Anyway enough about the gorgeous Mrs Zany Question is where does it stop, I can see how treatments for rare conditions that are too expensive might be stopped, but what happens when you find a treatment for dementia? That's what keeps happening, cancer is a good example with things like ovarian cancer deaths falling by 40+% Most of this is due to breakthroughs from research. I'm genuinely interested in how we deal with this (not just winning the argument) as I see no end to to things that keep more and more of us alive for longer and longer at higher and higher cost. Well as peoples health improves and they live longer you do what the UK has already done and France are trying to do at the moment - push back the retirement age. That keeps them in work paying taxes and holds down government welfare spending. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 19, 2023 8:12:57 GMT
Yet every year the budget goes up. Taking inflation aside I would suggest this is in good part the ever increasing number of things we can treat. For clarity my wife left the NHS in 2008. But while she was part of the neuro team barely a month went by there wasn't some wonderful new miracle treatment she was discussing with me. (She's a clever lady) I remember her going on a 5 day lecture tour to talk about a discovery she personally made regarding blood flow across the brain in patients with permanent dreadful headaches. Anyway enough about the gorgeous Mrs Zany Question is where does it stop, I can see how treatments for rare conditions that are too expensive might be stopped, but what happens when you find a treatment for dementia? That's what keeps happening, cancer is a good example with things like ovarian cancer deaths falling by 40+% Most of this is due to breakthroughs from research. I'm genuinely interested in how we deal with this (not just winning the argument) as I see no end to to things that keep more and more of us alive for longer and longer at higher and higher cost. The starting point would be an honest conversation about the true costs of healthcare. However we have politicians that lack the back bone to start that conversation, and even worse, an electorate who want to bury their head in the sand and claim the Tory desire to privatize the NHS is why it is failing. The predictions are that within a 100 years dying of old age will cease to be a thing. People will be living for hundreds of years, so we need to start changing the way our societies work. Yes an honest conversation. We strangely seem to value it less than a holiday or a nice car (That is until we lose it) Trying to future proof health is a whole different ball game. Who would have guessed that by increasing longevity into the 90's we would see a massive rise in brain diseases as our brains wore out before our bodies. One huge elephant in the room is the number of people alive who don't want to be, but that's just one spoke of this wheel. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 19, 2023 8:15:04 GMT
Yet every year the budget goes up. Taking inflation aside I would suggest this is in good part the ever increasing number of things we can treat. For clarity my wife left the NHS in 2008. But while she was part of the neuro team barely a month went by there wasn't some wonderful new miracle treatment she was discussing with me. (She's a clever lady) I remember her going on a 5 day lecture tour to talk about a discovery she personally made regarding blood flow across the brain in patients with permanent dreadful headaches. Anyway enough about the gorgeous Mrs Zany Question is where does it stop, I can see how treatments for rare conditions that are too expensive might be stopped, but what happens when you find a treatment for dementia? That's what keeps happening, cancer is a good example with things like ovarian cancer deaths falling by 40+% Most of this is due to breakthroughs from research. I'm genuinely interested in how we deal with this (not just winning the argument) as I see no end to to things that keep more and more of us alive for longer and longer at higher and higher cost. Well as peoples health improves and they live longer you do what the UK has already done and France are trying to do at the moment - push back the retirement age. That keeps them in work paying taxes and holds down government welfare spending. That doesn't solve it. The cost of the NHS is rising faster than the population. Further, living until you are 95 does not mean capable of work until you are 80. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 19, 2023 8:20:03 GMT
Well as peoples health improves and they live longer you do what the UK has already done and France are trying to do at the moment - push back the retirement age. That keeps them in work paying taxes and holds down government welfare spending. That doesn't solve it. The cost of the NHS is rising faster than the population. Further, living until you are 95 does not mean capable of work until you are 80. Then you stop spending as much - or you restructure the health system and move away from the NHS model (which is not going to happen). At some point you have to accept that the NHS cannot deliver everything. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 19, 2023 11:00:35 GMT
Then the threshold reduces - £30k becomes £20k. Anything that NICE approves has to be available to patients - otherwise the NHS opens itself up to legal action. Yet every year the budget goes up. Taking inflation aside I would suggest this is in good part the ever increasing number of things we can treat. For clarity my wife left the NHS in 2008. But while she was part of the neuro team barely a month went by there wasn't some wonderful new miracle treatment she was discussing with me. (She's a clever lady) I remember her going on a 5 day lecture tour to talk about a discovery she personally made regarding blood flow across the brain in patients with permanent dreadful headaches. Anyway enough about the gorgeous Mrs Zany Question is where does it stop, I can see how treatments for rare conditions that are too expensive might be stopped, but what happens when you find a treatment for dementia? That's what keeps happening, cancer is a good example with things like ovarian cancer deaths falling by 40+% Most of this is due to breakthroughs from research. I'm genuinely interested in how we deal with this (not just winning the argument) as I see no end to to things that keep more and more of us alive for longer and longer at higher and higher cost. So what you are saying is that your wife was complicit in making the problems that the NHS faces today. 😁 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2023 12:32:06 GMT
Did anyone else watch Channel 4 News last night (Wednesday) ?
Almost the entire programme was dedicated to the dire situation within our NHS, the programme was audience based in Leeds, with Ambulance workers, a Conservative Minister, a Labour Minister, Nurses, Doctors, Patients, representatives from the care sector and representatives from NHS Management.
If you are a Conservative, or a Tory supporter, the programme was extremely embarrassing for you, no one, not even NHS management defended the Tory Minister.
The Shadow Health Minister tore the Tory Minister to shreds, no one wanted to defend the Tories.
When the government minister spoke about the "extra money going into care", those in the care profession laughed, and representatives of the care industry stated that they have not seen any extra money.
Channel 4 News last night was very bad for the Tories, but it was honest, truthfull and the right questions were asked.
I almost felt sorry for the government minister ( but I didn't ) The sooner the Tories are gone, the better.
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