|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 4, 2023 9:57:17 GMT
In scotland and england , we are told how starmers new labour will save the nhs.
In wales where they have been in charge 23 years , the welsh have longer waiting times , worse cancer outcomes and an A and E shambles.
Further , it amazes me how very few discuss starmers mentors in new labour , brown and blair shackling the various nhs in the uk to crippling PFI debt .Payments that cost billions each year and hurt the nhs systems across these islands.
Are we seriously pretending this party are the saviours of the nhs depsite the clear and damning evidence against them?
www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pfi-banks-barclays-hsbc-rbs-tony-blair-gordon-brown-carillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html?amp
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 4, 2023 10:12:56 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 4, 2023 10:32:36 GMT
OK, so what was the answer to the underfunded and complete mess the NHS was left in by the Tories? Along with the many underfunded hospitals used that were far from new when the NHS was first introduced?
Keep it short and free from personal opinions if you want a reply.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jan 4, 2023 11:19:25 GMT
The last time that Labour were in charge of the NHS in England they left us with 2 massive problems that directly impact the problems of today - one was the PFI scam as highlighted and the other the bungled new contract for GP's that allowed them to withdraw from after hours cover.
Wonder what they have in mind for next time..
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 4, 2023 13:30:59 GMT
OK, so what was the answer to the underfunded and complete mess the NHS was left in by the Tories? Along with the many underfunded hospitals used that were far from new when the NHS was first introduced? Keep it short and free from personal opinions if you want a reply. ok , lets take PFI itself shall we.
It wasnt just the use of PFI deals in scotland , but the massively incompetent and shambolic way new labour delivered them and signed the taxpayer up to crippling costs.
The snp renegotiated many of these deals , and or replaced them with the scottish futures trust.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 4, 2023 13:33:18 GMT
The last time that Labour were in charge of the NHS in England they left us with 2 massive problems that directly impact the problems of today - one was the PFI scam as highlighted and the other the bungled new contract for GP's that allowed them to withdraw from after hours cover. Wonder what they have in mind for next time.. cheers for that pacifico. No matter what area we talk of , from the holier than thou nhs to any level of governance , their record speaks for itself. They cannot be trusted with finances. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2023 13:51:55 GMT
If someone has the Will to do something, and if its possible for it to be done, then it will be done
The NHS is not in the blood of the Conservatives, and though it might come as a shock to some who support the Tories, there are many within that party who openly oppose the NHS, but thats not a suprise is it. ?
It was Labour who created the NHS, and the concept of universal free healthcare is a core belief of the Labour Party.
For anyone to state that Labour wont save the NHS is basically talking out of their rear, the Labour Party will save the NHS, they will rescue it once again from the clutches of the Tories, just like they did in 1997.
Last time Labour were in charge, the waiting lists went down, the waiting times went down, it too two or three days to get a GP appointment ( now its two or thee weeks ), and unlike today, ambulances kept largely close to accepted response times.
The NHS is now a shamples, and no its not all due to Covid, the Conservatives are responsible for people dying waiting to be seen, and its a disgrace in the worlds 6th richest country.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Jan 4, 2023 13:57:16 GMT
If someone has the Will to do something, and if its possible for it to be done, then it will be done The NHS is not in the blood of the Conservatives, and though it might come as a shock to some who support the Tories, there are many within that party who openly oppose the NHS, but thats not a suprise is it. ? It was Labour who created the NHS, and the concept of universal free healthcare is a core belief of the Labour Party. For anyone to state that Labour wont save the NHS is basically talking out of their rear, the Labour Party will save the NHS, they will rescue it once again from the clutches of the Tories, just like they did in 1997. Last time Labour were in charge, the waiting lists went down, the waiting times went down, it too two or three days to get a GP appointment ( now its two or thee weeks ), and unlike today, ambulances kept largely close to accepted response times. The NHS is now a shamples, and no its not all due to Covid, the Conservatives are responsible for people dying waiting to be seen, and its a disgrace in the worlds 6th richest country.
Now Mick Lynch encourages retail and supermarket workers to revolt as he tells Lorraine 75% of rail staff earn under £32,000 - while fresh strike action cripples network and poll reveals public support for walkouts is tanking
RMT boss Mick Lynch today urged retail and supermarket workers to revolt
He also denied claims that rail workers are paid more than £50,000 a year
Millions of people are WFH this week amid a fresh wave of rail strikes
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 4, 2023 13:58:05 GMT
For anyone to state that Labour wont save the NHS is basically talking out of their rear, the Labour Party will save the NHS, they will rescue it once again from the clutches of the Tories, just like they did in 1997. The nhs has been divided upon country lines within the uk for the last 24 years.
The facts are , labour have run wales nhs for all of that time , and its the worst in the uk.
Labour ran scotland nhs from 1999 to 2007 , and i have posted above the mess they left of it.
So talking about rescuing the nhs from the clutches of the tories , when the tories havent run the nhs in 3 of the four uk countires for nearly a quarter of a century is laughable rubbish.
...and the one nation they have run it in consistently in that time is the worst performing nhs in britain.....
|
|
|
|
Post by borchester on Jan 4, 2023 14:29:43 GMT
In scotland and england , we are told how starmers new labour will save the nhs.
In wales where they have been in charge 23 years , the welsh have longer waiting times , worse cancer outcomes and an A and E shambles.
Further , it amazes me how very few discuss starmers mentors in new labour , brown and blair shackling the various nhs in the uk to crippling PFI debt .Payments that cost billions each year and hurt the nhs systems across these islands.
Are we seriously pretending this party are the saviours of the nhs depsite the clear and damning evidence against them?
Nothing will save the NHS which, at the most conservative estimate, is more than 25% larger than the Chinese army. It is the UK's secular religion. Well meaning, corpulent and incompetent.
|
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 4, 2023 14:49:46 GMT
In scotland and england , we are told how starmers new labour will save the nhs.
In wales where they have been in charge 23 years , the welsh have longer waiting times , worse cancer outcomes and an A and E shambles.
Further , it amazes me how very few discuss starmers mentors in new labour , brown and blair shackling the various nhs in the uk to crippling PFI debt .Payments that cost billions each year and hurt the nhs systems across these islands.
Are we seriously pretending this party are the saviours of the nhs depsite the clear and damning evidence against them?
www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pfi-banks-barclays-hsbc-rbs-tony-blair-gordon-brown-carillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html?amp
1. England Scotland and Wales NHS' run independently of each other. So cannot be directly compared with each other. 2. "Various PFI debts". No matter what system/Payment was used, hospitals were needed and debts would have arisen. The UK economy along with efficiency has deteriorated since the 2005/6. I.E. PFI have contributed to (not caused) hospital mergers etc. PFI hospitals were brought in on time and on cost, how many government projects manage that. So apart from that any estimated costs of alternative funding have to be taken with a pinch of salt. 3. "The great heist". The early PFIs were badly put together and were renegotiated. To get a true picture of PFI costs one would need to subtract the estimated TRUE costs of any alternative approach. This never happens nor is the efficiency at that time included, apparently because those who write about it are either saving their own skins or are politically biased. Why else is it that we do not get a clear picture of the 'extra costs' that might be attributed to PFIs. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 4, 2023 14:52:55 GMT
In scotland and england , we are told how starmers new labour will save the nhs.
In wales where they have been in charge 23 years , the welsh have longer waiting times , worse cancer outcomes and an A and E shambles.
Further , it amazes me how very few discuss starmers mentors in new labour , brown and blair shackling the various nhs in the uk to crippling PFI debt .Payments that cost billions each year and hurt the nhs systems across these islands.
Are we seriously pretending this party are the saviours of the nhs depsite the clear and damning evidence against them?
www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pfi-banks-barclays-hsbc-rbs-tony-blair-gordon-brown-carillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html?amp
1. England Scotland and Wales NHS' run independently of each other. So cannot be directly compared with each other. 2. "Various PFI debts". No matter what system/Payment was used, hospitals were needed and debts would have arisen. The UK economy along with efficiency has deteriorated since the 2005/6. I.E. PFI have contributed to (not caused) hospital mergers etc. PFI hospitals were brought in on time and on cost, how many government projects manage that. So apart from that any estimated costs of alternative funding have to be taken with a pinch of salt. 3. "The great heist". The early PFIs were badly put together and were renegotiated. To get a true picture of PFI costs one would need to subtract the estimated TRUE costs of any alternative approach. This never happens nor is the efficiency at that time included, apparently because those who write about it are either saving their own skins or are politically biased. Why else is it that we do not get a clear picture of the 'extra costs' that might be attributed to PFIs. your post appears to be a lot of waffle , pure last wordism in an attempt to obfusticate new labours disasterous legacy. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 4, 2023 14:55:31 GMT
The last time that Labour were in charge of the NHS in England they left us with 2 massive problems that directly impact the problems of today - one was the PFI scam as highlighted and the other the bungled new contract for GP's that allowed them to withdraw from after hours cover. Wonder what they have in mind for next time.. I wonder when you might consider stopping your posting of your biased usually insinuating subjective claims? Has the word Objectivity been erased from the right wing dictionary? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2023 14:57:48 GMT
In Wales in 2010, hospital waiting lists were much lower than both today and just prior to the pandemic
In Wales in 2010, waiting times were lower, as were ambulance response times, as were GP appointment times
In Scotland the NHS in 2010 had lower waiting lists, lower waiting times, lower ambulance respone times, and acceptable GP appointment waits.
(Question) In real terms, what has happened to the budget of Wales and Scotland since 2010 ?
(Question) Who decides and then hands over the budget to Cardiff and Edinburgh ?
(Puzzle) If Johnny is given £1.00 to spend on sweeties in 2010, and inflation averages 4% per year, and then Johnny is given £1.10 to spend on his sweets in 2022, will he be able to but more, or less sweets. ?
As someone once said "theres lies, more lies, then theres statistics"
|
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 4, 2023 15:01:03 GMT
1. England Scotland and Wales NHS' run independently of each other. So cannot be directly compared with each other. 2. "Various PFI debts". No matter what system/Payment was used, hospitals were needed and debts would have arisen. The UK economy along with efficiency has deteriorated since the 2005/6. I.E. PFI have contributed to (not caused) hospital mergers etc. PFI hospitals were brought in on time and on cost, how many government projects manage that. So apart from that any estimated costs of alternative funding have to be taken with a pinch of salt. 3. "The great heist". The early PFIs were badly put together and were renegotiated. To get a true picture of PFI costs one would need to subtract the estimated TRUE costs of any alternative approach. This never happens nor is the efficiency at that time included, apparently because those who write about it are either saving their own skins or are politically biased. Why else is it that we do not get a clear picture of the 'extra costs' that might be attributed to PFIs. your post appears to be a lot of waffle , pure last wordism in an attempt to obfusticate new labours disasterous legacy. Fixed opinions make life so easy don't they. Your reply exposes your limitations. |
|
