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Post by Pacifico on Jan 3, 2023 7:40:56 GMT
Except that the thread is about the desire to have a referendum having grown since leaving, so I'm not quite sure what the relevance of the 2019 election is? 🤔 But all you have are your assumptions and some very dodgy polling. Nobody to my knowledge has polled rejoining the Single Market and explained what that would entail. Getting someone to pay for losing control is a hard sell - and nobody in the Remain/Return camp has even tried to do that. |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 3, 2023 8:45:37 GMT
Except that the thread is about the desire to have a referendum having grown since leaving, so I'm not quite sure what the relevance of the 2019 election is? 🤔 Were you polled? |
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 3, 2023 11:09:28 GMT
This is so much an illusory waste of time.
27 countries would have to recognise all the changes we would have to make including a written Constitution and joining the euro and operating freedom of movement.
And then vote to allow the UK to rejoin.
The last thing the EU wants is slippery instability.
You leavers knew what you were voting for.
Now live with it. There is no way back for at least a generation. And by then the UK may not be wealthy enough to apply.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 3, 2023 11:26:21 GMT
This is so much an illusory waste of time. 27 countries would have to recognise all the changes we would have to make including a written Constitution and joining the euro and operating freedom of movement. And then vote to allow the UK to rejoin. The last thing the EU wants is slippery instability. You leavers knew what you were voting for.
Now live with it. There is no way back for at least a generation. And by then the UK may not be wealthy enough to apply. It's not the leavers who are constantly complaining and demanding another referendum - you should be directing your remarks at those remain supporters who cannot accept that we have left. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 3, 2023 11:28:53 GMT
The UK had no perks being part of the EU, we were just useful cash contributors for their ideological World Supremacy.
They were getting ideas above their station, with talks of a European super-army, and World domination.
We had to bring them down to Earth with a thud.
It's clear to see without the forces of the UK they are crumbling, the House of Cards is falling, their 'useful idiots' seen the light.
Give it less than 10 years and they will be rebranded, Italy being the next to leave, they've had itchy feet for a few years now.
IMO you are way off beam here. 1. "There ideological world supremacy" is an accusation not a provable ambition. 2. Again, as above. Unless you can show the board verbatim proof that this was on the EU agenda. 3. All based on opinion. 4. The EU is having a hard time just as the UK and much of Europe and beyond is having.
5. IMO, the UK is more likely to rejoin the EU within the next two generations. If they don't then presumably Brexit was the right decision and everything in the UK will be good. So no problem there. likewise none to back up yours. But I never made any outlandish claims, you did. So I have none to answer to. That your claims were so outlandish is why I questioned them. I thought you made a outlandish claim with 'IMO, the UK is more like to rejoin the EU within the next two generations' quote.
That's a very bold statement based on no facts.
Or do you have something to back that claim up?
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Post by see2 on Jan 3, 2023 11:34:15 GMT
IMO you are way off beam here. 1. "There ideological world supremacy" is an accusation not a provable ambition. 2. Again, as above. Unless you can show the board verbatim proof that this was on the EU agenda. 3. All based on opinion. 4. The EU is having a hard time just as the UK and much of Europe and beyond is having.
5. IMO, the UK is more likely to rejoin the EU within the next two generations. If they don't then presumably Brexit was the right decision and everything in the UK will be good. So no problem there. But I never made any outlandish claims, you did. So I have none to answer to. That your claims were so outlandish is why I questioned them. I thought you made a outlandish claim with 'IMO, the UK is more like to rejoin the EU within the next two generations' quote.
That's a very bold statement based on no facts.
Or do you have something to back that claim up?
As stated, it was an opinion, not a fact. i.e. IMO=In My Opinion. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 3, 2023 11:44:36 GMT
thomas wrote "You could be right, but without a doubt it will be an international global humiliation for the uk , especially England. The cries will ring out across the football stadiums at international games no surrender to the EU. Foreign diplomats will mock london , saying we will speak to your bosses in brussels rather than the monkeys in london. Ive said for many years now all piss taking aside , the uk is doomed one way or the othr. If it doesnt split up , england along with scotland will be nothing more than a region of north west EU , part of schengen , Euro eventually in place of the falling GBP , european military , so on and so forth. Theres no going back to being the difficult child with british exceptions for london , if you sign back in , you are back in on thier terms. The question is , who is up for it and who is not? Personally i think starmer is going to start a binfire in the uk with his clear and total lies over EU membership. We will wait and see" ................................. No, I really dont think that it would be a global humiliation, France once left NATO and then rejoined, there are nations which left the Commonwealth, even expelled, and then sought to rejoin. Many who argued for Brexit suggested that America was our real and true ally, but of course that has proved to be totally untrue, no sanctury there. The Republicans are now all too consumed with "America First", and Trumpites are indifferent to NATO and at best luke warm to Britain and Europe. The Democrats see Brexit as a huge mistake, and are in no rush to give the UK any special favours. With the world now so unstable, and dangerous, our best interests must now be best served as a leading member of our own continent, and Europe must seek to pursue its own joint defence strategy, but working in co-operation with, and alongside NATO with North America and Turkey. As we are, we are in a kind of strange balancing act, somewhere between Europe and America As for the Labour Party, I have no doubts that Keir Starmer will not take us back into the EU, but what I believe could happen if the pressure is put on Starmer as Prime Minister, is that he might promise closer ties to Europe subject to a referendum, most likely after the 2029 general election, over ten years since the 2016 referendum. All the evidence I've seen is that the EU don't want to be friendly towards Britain.. After Brexit the EU becomes a competitor to the UK with the need to take care of its own interests first, same with the UK. IMO. When everything is settled and some trading is taking place, that's the time for friendship. Closer ties will surely emerge if they are beneficial to the UK. Why wouldn't they? |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 3, 2023 11:46:37 GMT
I thought you made a outlandish claim with 'IMO, the UK is more like to rejoin the EU within the next two generations' quote.
That's a very bold statement based on no facts.
Or do you have something to back that claim up?
As stated, it was an opinion, not a fact. i.e. IMO=In My Opinion. And if you read my posts correctly, you would note I said 'I read the room', I did not say it was based on 'fact'.
By reading the room you get the general mood and 'opinions' of people, hence the reading is most people appear to be quite happy leaving the EU, and very little desire to hold another 'referendum on rejoining'.
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Post by jonksy on Jan 3, 2023 12:17:46 GMT
It's becoming increasingly hard to see any of the benefits of Brexit, whether you voted leave or remain, and that is becoming clear to everyone. Some people will always remain aligned to the vision of Brexit that they thought that they had because they have become too invested in it (a few examples on this forum), but yet noone can actually claim that we are better off in any way, hence the loss of support even amongst Brexiteers. The last paragraph in that article from the government spokesman is a clear lie. Not even propaganda, but a downright lie. They must think that the public are stupid. I don't see us becoming full EU members yet, but I can see us becoming members of the single market, as it has become quite clear that leaving that has been immensely damaging and the government has no plan to overcome this. Well it has certainly rattled the lefty remainer luvvies....Good innit. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 3, 2023 13:55:20 GMT
As stated, it was an opinion, not a fact. i.e. IMO=In My Opinion. And if you read my posts correctly, you would note I said 'I read the room', I did not say it was based on 'fact'.
By reading the room you get the general mood and 'opinions' of people, hence the reading is most people appear to be quite happy leaving the EU, and very little desire to hold another 'referendum on rejoining'.
This is your post that I asked for information on. "The UK had no perks being part of the EU, we were just useful cash contributors for their ideological World Supremacy. They were getting ideas above their station, with talks of a European super-army, and World domination. We had to bring them down to Earth with a thud. It's clear to see without the forces of the UK they are crumbling, the House of Cards is falling, their 'useful idiots' seen the light. Give it less than 10 years and they will be rebranded, Italy being the next to leave, they've had itchy feet for a few years now." ------------- Nothing about "reading the room" there. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 3, 2023 14:12:43 GMT
That was something that I didn't say and don't believe, so why ask? The question that I asked was clear about your allegation that more would vote leave. I wanted to know if this was something that you had read, or something that you made up. You haven't yet answered. I just read the room, it's generally the best way to get a balance.
I have a varied variety of company, from family, friends, neighbours, at work and so on, the vast majority still support leaving the EU, even those who voted to remain at the time.
I use common sense to deduce that people are happy we left the EU, and have no desire to rejoin.
Unless you are going to use some ridiculous argument like 'I only associate with people who voted to leave the EU' ... lol ... you do realise people would laugh out loud if you suggested such a thing.  And if you read my posts correctly, you would note I said 'I read the room', I did not say it was based on 'fact'.
By reading the room you get the general mood and 'opinions' of people, hence the reading is most people appear to be quite happy leaving the EU, and very little desire to hold another 'referendum on rejoining'.
This is your post that I asked for information on. "The UK had no perks being part of the EU, we were just useful cash contributors for their ideological World Supremacy. They were getting ideas above their station, with talks of a European super-army, and World domination. We had to bring them down to Earth with a thud. It's clear to see without the forces of the UK they are crumbling, the House of Cards is falling, their 'useful idiots' seen the light.
Give it less than 10 years and they will be rebranded, Italy being the next to leave, they've had itchy feet for a few years now." -------------
Nothing about "reading the room" there.I take it you missed my post to andrew, where I clear stated 'I read the room'?
"Give it less than 10 years and they will be rebranded, Italy being the next to leave, they've had itchy feet for a few years now"
That statement ^^ is no bolder than your statement "IMO, the UK is more likely to rejoin the EU within the next two generations"
BTW Italy do have itchy feet, and they are not happy with what is going on within the EU ....Fact.
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Post by om15 on Jan 4, 2023 13:25:48 GMT
No they don't according to this poll.  |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 4, 2023 13:56:28 GMT
Polls are as accurate as the people taking them.
Polls are generally bias depending on who is taking them.
The best way to 'read the room' is asking people, rather than box ticking, you do know you can fiddle those figures to suit agendas.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 4, 2023 19:22:24 GMT
😂😂😂
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Post by Handyman on Jan 4, 2023 19:26:28 GMT
This is so much an illusory waste of time. 27 countries would have to recognise all the changes we would have to make including a written Constitution and joining the euro and operating freedom of movement. And then vote to allow the UK to rejoin. The last thing the EU wants is slippery instability. You leavers knew what you were voting for.
Now live with it. There is no way back for at least a generation. And by then the UK may not be wealthy enough to apply. It's not the leavers who are constantly complaining and demanding another referendum - you should be directing your remarks at those remain supporters who cannot accept that we have left. Well said |
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