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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 2, 2023 17:13:41 GMT
Thankfully it's only your 'IMO'.
More chance of Hell freezing over IMO.
... meanwhile back to reality.
So no verbatim evidence with which to back up your claims ? likewise none to back up yours. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 2, 2023 17:14:59 GMT
Thankfully it's only your 'IMO'.
More chance of Hell freezing over IMO.
... meanwhile back to reality.
So no verbatim evidence with which to back up your claims ? brexiters have just won five votes over the last 7 years. What more evidence do you require?
In each of them , from milliband , to corbyn , to starmers disasterous brexit policy in ge2019 , labour as ever have been on the wrong side of public opinion.
We even had the laugh of watching a starmer led labour trying to insert an out and out remainer , in the hartlepool by election , and once again reality bit and keir lost.
The question is see 2 , when are you going to come down to mother earth from new labour la la land and read the room ?
England clearly doesnt want to be part of the EU , and the english have a long and bloody history of opposing the europeans , which i suspect is a mjor part of the difference in opinion between scotland and ireland on the one hand and england on the other.
Its going to be extremely hard to save any sort of dignity and face globally and rejoin however you do it.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 2, 2023 17:28:25 GMT
It's becoming increasingly hard to see any of the benefits of Brexit, whether you voted leave or remain, and that is becoming clear to everyone. Some people will always remain aligned to the vision of Brexit that they thought that they had because they have become too invested in it (a few examples on this forum), but yet noone can actually claim that we are better off in any way, hence the loss of support even amongst Brexiteers. The last paragraph in that article from the government spokesman is a clear lie. Not even propaganda, but a downright lie. They must think that the public are stupid. I don't see us becoming full EU members yet, but I can see us becoming members of the single market, as it has become quite clear that leaving that has been immensely damaging and the government has no plan to overcome this. with the greatest respect andrew , i have been hearing brexiters are losing support for the last 8 years , and in that time , they have won every election and referendum held .
Remember when certain folks in england were talking of the silent majority who were going to sweep to power in 2019 and stop brexit? Jo swinson the pm in waiting?
Full EU membership is a red herring and we both know it. The question is will the majority find a starmer government signing the uk back into the EU along all the old red lines for exmaple the four freedoms custom union and all the rest for the greater good in labours opinion acceptable?
Im not sure. You need to part ways with personal wishfull thinking and embrace reality.
Starmer should come clean and be honest , but he wont ,the weasal of a man.
Secret membership , or public announcement , either way it will be international humiliation for london.
I'm actually agreeing with you. Fairsociety has misread the article as saying 66% support remain rather than 66% support a referendum. He/she then tried to ascribe this misunderstanding as something I said, when I quite clearly hadn't. I agree that it would still be close, too close for the politicians to risk, hence my original post stating we wouldn't be rejoining the EU, but rather I see us joining the single market in one form or another. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 2, 2023 17:33:56 GMT
with the greatest respect andrew , i have been hearing brexiters are losing support for the last 8 years , and in that time , they have won every election and referendum held .
Remember when certain folks in england were talking of the silent majority who were going to sweep to power in 2019 and stop brexit? Jo swinson the pm in waiting?
Full EU membership is a red herring and we both know it. The question is will the majority find a starmer government signing the uk back into the EU along all the old red lines for exmaple the four freedoms custom union and all the rest for the greater good in labours opinion acceptable?
Im not sure. You need to part ways with personal wishfull thinking and embrace reality.
Starmer should come clean and be honest , but he wont ,the weasal of a man.
Secret membership , or public announcement , either way it will be international humiliation for london.
hence my original post stating we wouldn't be rejoining the EU, but rather I see us joining the single market in one form or another. and i disagree , becuase the public have already said via votes they didnt want labours BRINO . So what does starmer try and do.....say he supports brexit while behind closed doors prepares to offer up BRINO.
If there is a more stupid party than labour in european politics , i have yet to hear it.
Customs union , just not the customs union and all that pish , which even tony blair ridiculed and said wouldnt be in the uk interests in terms of doing trade deals unilaterally.
You cannot join the single market without accepting eu rules and regulations to varying degrees , we did all this to death. The close you get to the single market , the more regs and laws you take on which the uk rejected , the further away you get the less you take on. Remember?
Rehashing the same thing over and over agains and again while expecting a different result is madness.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 2, 2023 17:37:47 GMT
with the greatest respect andrew , i have been hearing brexiters are losing support for the last 8 years , and in that time , they have won every election and referendum held .
Remember when certain folks in england were talking of the silent majority who were going to sweep to power in 2019 and stop brexit? Jo swinson the pm in waiting?
Full EU membership is a red herring and we both know it. The question is will the majority find a starmer government signing the uk back into the EU along all the old red lines for exmaple the four freedoms custom union and all the rest for the greater good in labours opinion acceptable?
Im not sure. You need to part ways with personal wishfull thinking and embrace reality.
Starmer should come clean and be honest , but he wont ,the weasal of a man.
Secret membership , or public announcement , either way it will be international humiliation for london.
I'm actually agreeing with you. Fairsociety has misread the article as saying 66% support remain rather than 66% support a referendum. He/she then tried to ascribe this misunderstanding as something I said, when I quite clearly hadn't. I agree that it would still be close, too close for the politicians to risk, hence my original post stating we wouldn't be rejoining the EU, but rather I see us joining the single market in one form or another. Fairsociety misread nothing, it's you who have misread the thread.
read thread title
"two thirds of uk want referendum on 'rejoining' EU"
key word 'rejoining'.
However I would have responded accordingly had it read 'two third of uk want new 'referendum'
I misread nothing andrew, you just second guess what other posters are thinking.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 2, 2023 17:42:02 GMT
Thanks for demonstrating my point. 🙈
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 2, 2023 18:42:37 GMT
I doubt that you will get much support for rejoining the single market on its own - paying to join an organisation where you have to follow their rules but having no input into what those rules would be (they may even be harmful to your economy) is going to be a very hard sell.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 2, 2023 19:12:25 GMT
I doubt that you will get much support for rejoining the single market on its own - paying to join an organisation where you have to follow their rules but having no input into what those rules would be (they may even be harmful to your economy) is going to be a very hard sell. You seem to be under the misapprehension that the country voted to leave the single market. They didn't. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 19:44:58 GMT
thomas wrote "You could be right, but without a doubt it will be an international global humiliation for the uk , especially England. The cries will ring out across the football stadiums at international games no surrender to the EU. Foreign diplomats will mock london , saying we will speak to your bosses in brussels rather than the monkeys in london.
Ive said for many years now all piss taking aside , the uk is doomed one way or the othr. If it doesnt split up , england along with scotland will be nothing more than a region of north west EU , part of schengen , Euro eventually in place of the falling GBP , european military , so on and so forth.
Theres no going back to being the difficult child with british exceptions for london , if you sign back in , you are back in on thier terms.
The question is , who is up for it and who is not? Personally i think starmer is going to start a binfire in the uk with his clear and total lies over EU membership. We will wait and see"
.................................
No, I really dont think that it would be a global humiliation, France once left NATO and then rejoined, there are nations which left the Commonwealth, even expelled, and then sought to rejoin.
Many who argued for Brexit suggested that America was our real and true ally, but of course that has proved to be totally untrue, no sanctury there. The Republicans are now all too consumed with "America First", and Trumpites are indifferent to NATO and at best luke warm to Britain and Europe. The Democrats see Brexit as a huge mistake, and are in no rush to give the UK any special favours.
With the world now so unstable, and dangerous, our best interests must now be best served as a leading member of our own continent, and Europe must seek to pursue its own joint defence strategy, but working in co-operation with, and alongside NATO with North America and Turkey.
As we are, we are in a kind of strange balancing act, somewhere between Europe and America
As for the Labour Party, I have no doubts that Keir Starmer will not take us back into the EU, but what I believe could happen if the pressure is put on Starmer as Prime Minister, is that he might promise closer ties to Europe subject to a referendum, most likely after the 2029 general election, over ten years since the 2016 referendum.
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Post by Toreador on Jan 2, 2023 19:57:51 GMT
thomas wrote "You could be right, but without a doubt it will be an international global humiliation for the uk , especially England. The cries will ring out across the football stadiums at international games no surrender to the EU. Foreign diplomats will mock london , saying we will speak to your bosses in brussels rather than the monkeys in london. Ive said for many years now all piss taking aside , the uk is doomed one way or the othr. If it doesnt split up , england along with scotland will be nothing more than a region of north west EU , part of schengen , Euro eventually in place of the falling GBP , european military , so on and so forth. Theres no going back to being the difficult child with british exceptions for london , if you sign back in , you are back in on thier terms. The question is , who is up for it and who is not? Personally i think starmer is going to start a binfire in the uk with his clear and total lies over EU membership. We will wait and see" ................................. No, I really dont think that it would be a global humiliation, France once left NATO and then rejoined, there are nations which left the Commonwealth, even expelled, and then sought to rejoin. Many who argued for Brexit suggested that America was our real and true ally, but of course that has proved to be totally untrue, no sanctury there. The Republicans are now all too consumed with "America First", and Trumpites are indifferent to NATO and at best luke warm to Britain and Europe. The Democrats see Brexit as a huge mistake, and are in no rush to give the UK any special favours. With the world now so unstable, and dangerous, our best interests must now be best served as a leading member of our own continent, and Europe must seek to pursue its own joint defence strategy, but working in co-operation with, and alongside NATO with North America and Turkey. As we are, we are in a kind of strange balancing act, somewhere between Europe and America As for the Labour Party, I have no doubts that Keir Starmer will not take us back into the EU, but what I believe could happen if the pressure is put on Starmer as Prime Minister, is that he might promise closer ties to Europe subject to a referendum, most likely after the 2029 general election, over ten years since the 2016 referendum. All the evidence I've seen is that the EU don't want to be friendly towards Britain.. |
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Post by borchester on Jan 2, 2023 20:27:55 GMT
There is always some anti British filth eager to betray the UK. It does not mean that they will succeed
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Post by Vinny on Jan 2, 2023 20:43:50 GMT
Thomas, you failed to get the UK to vote to stay with the benefit of a rebate and opt outs from the Euro and Schengen.
This time, we do not meet the EU's deficit limits. We wouldn't be able to rejoin even if we wanted to.
Even if we met the budget rules, we'd have to join the Euro, Schengen and contribute £20bn+ a year in budget contributions.
Not saying it will never happen, but I can't see it happening in this decade.
Better to make the best of our situation and pursue an FTA with the USA.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 2, 2023 22:25:02 GMT
I doubt that you will get much support for rejoining the single market on its own - paying to join an organisation where you have to follow their rules but having no input into what those rules would be (they may even be harmful to your economy) is going to be a very hard sell. You seem to be under the misapprehension that the country voted to leave the single market. They didn't. Well the only political party currently advocating joining the single market lost seats at the last election - perhaps you are confusing your desires with political reality? |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 2, 2023 23:39:29 GMT
Except that the thread is about the desire to have a referendum having grown since leaving, so I'm not quite sure what the relevance of the 2019 election is? 🤔
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Post by see2 on Jan 3, 2023 0:07:39 GMT
So no verbatim evidence with which to back up your claims ? likewise none to back up yours. But I never made any outlandish claims, you did. So I have none to answer to. That your claims were so outlandish is why I questioned them. |
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