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Post by piglet on Dec 31, 2022 11:37:39 GMT
I think its a word, but there you go. The death of Pope Benedict produced a line from the news about Catholicism facing increasing secularism in the west, or in other words a disbelief in god. To me its a bit like a metro car from the 1980s, i was in brum then, trundling up and down the a38 thinking Longdridge didnt exist.
I am no fan of catholicism by the way.
My theory is that the developed world has no need of God because its wealthy, people have what they need, or can get it. There is the age old quote of an unknown author, probably a soldier, who said that there are no atheists in foxholes, how true is that.
I went for a scan two years ago, the bloke said its ok, only to be called back that same night, i didnt know it then, but it was life threatening, on my way to hospital i prayed because i am a believer. Today i am illness free from an illness that doesnt go away. I was in a foxhole.
If there is no God, what explanation is there for what you see around you. Something does not come from nothing, there has to be something for it to express itself. The evidence of God, a creator, a Longbridge plant is all around you, you drive past it daily.
Having said that, knowing about the existence of a car plant, or God, invalidates the experience of life, which is another discussion, like Monte said, who gives lauekemia to a child? Or why did Auschwitz exist? What could possibly be the reason? Why does God deal in obtuseness?
So, what is the meaning of a Godless existence, and how did we get here? , the answer must be secularist, and scientific in, like a man in a lab coat with a bunsen burner way. And must express itself in a hopeless pointless way, because it is.
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Post by Steve on Dec 31, 2022 11:47:36 GMT
Thought provoking ^  |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 8, 2023 21:21:17 GMT
I don’t need a god to know right from wrong.
I think I’d start there.
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Post by piglet on Jan 8, 2023 22:57:33 GMT
A lot of people dont, some on here, and at times we all dont, considering the situation, frame of reference, past, etc. Jeremy Corbyn doesnt, Putin, Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Nicola Sturgeion etc. If they did the world would be a better place. Dont you have regrets, i do. Or are you perfect?
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 8, 2023 23:22:26 GMT
Firstly secularism isn’t of itself denial of a god, it is separation of the institutions of state from the institutions of faith.
Personally I’d strip the church of it’s default charitable status and apply it back to its charitable WORKS
the state should for example consider the Salvation Army’s actions in providing for the destitute and homeless as charitable works and Shelter or Crisis at Christmas perform similar charitable works.
The Salvation Army may say they perform these charitable works because the god they believe in tells them to.
Crisis at Christmas arguably carry out similar work, which I consider equally charitable, but I do not personally figure their motive for doing what they do is because God tells them to.
So the Salvation Army should get tax relief on the buildings they use for their soup kitchen but not on the ones the hold their worship of their supreme being in. They should be forking out for that out of taxes income
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Post by piglet on Jan 9, 2023 13:45:10 GMT
Thats spitting hairs John. One fault of secularism is the denial of morals, not that governments have that anyway. Lets not go there, if faith was practiced this would be a better world, but as is the case, faith is blamed for its ills. Imagine im putting you in a confessional, and im a priest. " Yes my son". Ive been to confess, have you.?
I dont expect you to answer, as if i were to confess to you, i would not. My point is that becoming aware of your own faults does not occur.
For both of us, our sins would take a long time to confess, if we were aware that we had done anything wrong.
The priest, in listening to you and me, would need half time, and a second leg.
Indeed, to bring to someones attention that they had done anything wrong, all hell would break loose, Gordon Brown was a prime example of a child in an adults clothing, amazingly making prime minister.
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Post by patman post on Jan 9, 2023 14:51:18 GMT
Some people can happily enjoy a godless existence, while others have their religious beliefs which provide them with a comfort blanket at times of stress. At other times religion explains the inexplicable and reduces the strain of imparting knowledge to those seeking reasons or information.
Personally, I'm happy with the general position in the UK — although I believe the CofE should be disestablished.
The general population can join in with whatever celebration or festivity a religion offers, or ignore them completely.
Strict and dictatorial religions will be fighting rearguard actions over the coming decades as members become more relaxed about their faith. Even immigration is unlikely to keep practising Roman Catholic and Islamic adherents at current levels over the long term...
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 9, 2023 18:22:00 GMT
Thats spitting hairs John. One fault of secularism is the denial of morals, not that governments have that anyway. Lets not go there, if faith was practiced this would be a better world, but as is the case, faith is blamed for its ills. Imagine im putting you in a confessional, and im a priest. " Yes my son". Ive been to confess, have you.? I dont expect you to answer, as if i were to confess to you, i would not. My point is that becoming aware of your own faults does not occur. For both of us, our sins would take a long time to confess, if we were aware that we had done anything wrong. The priest, in listening to you and me, would need half time, and a second leg. Indeed, to bring to someones attention that they had done anything wrong, all hell would break loose, Gordon Brown was a prime example of a child in an adults clothing, amazingly making prime minister. Piggy, I'm very glad you got over your illness. That said, you're not exactly the best advertisement for Christianity. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jan 9, 2023 19:26:00 GMT
I don’t need a god to know right from wrong. I think I’d start there. Having a god has never stopped men from doing evil things anyway. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 9, 2023 21:45:35 GMT
Thats spitting hairs John. One fault of secularism is the denial of morals, not that governments have that anyway. Lets not go there, if faith was practiced this would be a better world, but as is the case, faith is blamed for its ills. Imagine im putting you in a confessional, and im a priest. " Yes my son". Ive been to confess, have you.? I dont expect you to answer, as if i were to confess to you, i would not. My point is that becoming aware of your own faults does not occur. For both of us, our sins would take a long time to confess, if we were aware that we had done anything wrong. The priest, in listening to you and me, would need half time, and a second leg. Indeed, to bring to someones attention that they had done anything wrong, all hell would break loose, Gordon Brown was a prime example of a child in an adults clothing, amazingly making prime minister. No, I massively disagree with this. I accept that those who have a faith have a set in stone moral code. Not that many adhere to it. After all, rule one is you’re steeped in sin and are going to burn in hell for it. I don’t need to believe that Moses had a epiphany on Mount Sinai to look at the commandments and think ‘well, some of them make sense’ I don’t think anyone needs a divine being to sit and think that behaving in a particular way will probably lead to someone else behaving like that towards me and I don’t think I’d fancy that occurring. I used to be a lay preacher but the antics of certain jerks I met put me right off. The senior manager in the defence company whose fundamentalist beliefs in the teachings of Saint Paul The Mysogynistic Bigot meant when I got threatened with a transfer and all the women in my team got told they’d be working for him all eight of them handed in their notice. The ‘sisterhood’ who cold shouldered Moira when she found her second pregnancy was going to be born dead so she aborted it at twenty four weeks so as to avoid the need for a funeral and all that crap. Mind you, that’s nothing to what I got handed out when I let those scum know Emma was being handed to my former colleagues to dissect and microscopically examine to see if they could find clues as to why she never developed a diaphragm. I’m not sure if it was repulsion at the thought science might make advances or that the scientists involved actually KNEW me from my former occupation when I worked with them that unsettled them But the worst of the bunch were the idiotic fundies who persuaded my girlfriends best friend at sixth form that Jesus was coming to save her in a few weeks riding a white charger like prince fucking charming. Because when he didn’t rock up and the pressure of the upper sixth syllabus got to her, she chose to take a short cut to go meet him …. Stupid, stupid bastards. So, no, I need no god to tell me what’s right and what’s wrong, and my personal experience of some of his closest hangers on tells me I want fuck all to do with him if he does exist. Which I really have come to doubt over the last 30 y are of my existence What has really pissed me off in recent years is the number of extremist religious nutters extolling their hangers on to do nasty things in exchange for a better afterlife. I suppose I’m getting quite Marxist in a way. But I believe you get one go at this life and you are a very, very long time dead. Not that this worries me. But what really cheeses me off is ass holes in religious garb telling the faithful their shitty existence here or their decision to prematurely end it for the cause is going to be rewarded in the utter fiction of some aftetlife that doesn’t exist. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 9, 2023 22:47:00 GMT
Believe what you want.
Just DONT mix it up with politics.
That is the fastest way to a fascist theocracy possible.
Think Iran and Afghanistan and run.
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Post by piglet on Jan 9, 2023 23:14:07 GMT
The argument that the world is evil therefore there is no God is as old as the Universe. I mentioned in the other God thread about there being God, and everything else, when there is no distiction. If i created a painting, is that not me? So people lie, cheat, kill, hate etc, and? Oh, God does not exist. In the animal world, its eat and be eaten, humans are an improvement arnt they?
Some people are innately evil, as some others are not, some become evil, others become saints etc. The ability to create is vast. What is this thing, and if we are a part of God, how are we connected to God. ?
Look at evil empires, the nazis were amazing, there must be dozens similar. How did Hitler do it? What you mention is small stuff, amateurs. What if they turned their minds to morality?, good things, creativity, healing.? Id like to remind you of where you are, this planet is a shithole, with suffering everywhere, be glad its not you, and if it is, it could be worse.
Whatever your suffering is, your getting yours, and me mine, its a world of cause and effect. Be merciful, the person you are hurting is you, if you stay your mouth or hand, you will be spared. Judge and you will be judged. If we are part of God, then surely that makes sense.
You have side stepped my offer of you confessing, you need to dont you?
For you to whine about others when you are as bad shows well, its not good is it. And yet you have an ability to do what you want, but you dont know how, whether its a nazi empire, or the promised land. For me to tell you how will be casting seed on barren ground. Find out for yourself, its taken me a lifetime. Just know its out there. Hitler knew how, but for ill, Mother Theresa, countless others. God, the Universe, eternity, infinity, is trying to show us the way home.
I saw Ben Fogle last night exploring the Scottish Islands, mountains, vast seascapes, the sky, a vast dome. There, there is God.
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 9, 2023 23:34:29 GMT
I saw Ben Fogle last night exploring the Scottish Islands, mountains, vast seascapes, the sky, a vast dome. There, there is God. Ben Fogle is God? |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 9, 2023 23:47:26 GMT
I saw Ben Fogle last night exploring the Scottish Islands, mountains, vast seascapes, the sky, a vast dome. There, there is God. Ben Fogle is God? Here’s a strange thing. If you rearrange the letters ‘ Ben Fogle is God ‘ then arrange them back again , it reads ‘ Ben Fogle is God’…………………spooky.. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jan 10, 2023 0:19:05 GMT
Here’s a strange thing. If you rearrange the letters ‘ Ben Fogle is God ‘ then arrange them back again , it reads ‘ Ben Fogle is God’…………………spooky.. It's also an anagram of Bleeding Goofs or Edible Fog Song. What more proof do you need? |
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