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Post by Einhorn on Jan 10, 2023 18:02:31 GMT
What can I say? Nietzsche was an etymologist, I think your interpretation is likely to be a rather gross over-simplification. For instance, such a moral system would not allow valour to be a virtue separate from victory. You can see this is not the case. Hmmm, I suppose it would depend on on who was doing the valorous act and who was winning/losing. In Homer, one character does an act, and that act is deemed to be bad by his peers. Another character, of a much higher social station, does the same act, and those same peers judge it to be good. |
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Post by Toreador on Jan 10, 2023 18:08:40 GMT
The similarity is coincidence. One is Germanic, the other Hebrew Mein gott or is it mein gtt? |
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Post by Orac on Jan 10, 2023 19:02:50 GMT
I think your interpretation is likely to be a rather gross over-simplification. For instance, such a moral system would not allow valour to be a virtue separate from victory. You can see this is not the case. Hmmm, I suppose it would depend on on who was doing the valorous act and who was winning/losing. In Homer, one character does an act, and that act is deemed to be bad by his peers. Another character, of a much higher social station, does the same act, and those same peers judge it to be good. Homer wrote about a concept of virtue that was contingent - a virtue is what brings a man closer to his end or destiny is a virtue contingent on that destiny. A virtue for a hero was not necessarily a virtue for a politician or a grocer. For instance, one virtue Homer mentions was that a hero should never take on board any warning of danger and adjust course accordingly. This, of course, flies in the face of practicality and somewhat contradicts your earlier notion of good equals strong equals victorious. I don't think anyone with any practical experience would suggest that a policy of automatically acting in contradiction to all cautionary advice is the road most likely to set them up for a string of stunning victories. He was talking about virtue in the limited sense of making a particular kind of life (if you live) I think in general we may be talking somewhat at cross purposes and I'm not claiming that notions of goodness don't change or vary. One pattern to note is that they almost always involve self sacrifice. In the hero's case, he must sacrifice limiting his exposure to risk. For him, physical risk can not be a consideration |
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 10, 2023 19:11:55 GMT
Hmmm, I suppose it would depend on on who was doing the valorous act and who was winning/losing. In Homer, one character does an act, and that act is deemed to be bad by his peers. Another character, of a much higher social station, does the same act, and those same peers judge it to be good. Homer wrote about a concept of virtue that was contingent - a virtue is what brings a man closer to his end or destiny is a virtue contingent on that destiny. A virtue for a hero was not necessarily a virtue for a politician or a grocer. For instance, one virtue Homer mentions was that a hero should never take on board any warning of danger and adjust course accordingly. This, of course, flies in the face of practicality and somewhat contradicts your earlier notion of good equals strong equals victorious. I don't think anyone with any practical experience would suggest that a policy of automatically acting in contradiction to all cautionary advice is the road most likely to set them up for a string of stunning victories. He was talking about virtue in the limited sense of making a particular kind of life (if you live) I think in general we may be talking somewhat at cross purposes and I'm not claiming that notions of goodness don't change or vary. One pattern to note is that they almost always involve self sacrifice. In the hero's case, he must sacrifice limiting his exposure to risk. For him, physical risk can not be a consideration I think he was referring to the ruling warrior kings/warrior class. So, politicians and warriors would have been one and the same. My understanding is that a grocer would be incapable of doing 'good', no matter how noble his actions by today's standards. I haven't read the book in some time, so I may be be mistaken. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 10, 2023 21:34:36 GMT
John, im saying that people who are evil are also God, there is no distinction, on a path to something better or worse. Confession, apart from atonement, is keeping yourself grounded, in touch with yourself. At the start of the catholic mass there is a prayer, i think its called the I confess, that it repeats its my fault my fault my fault. The bible repeats over and over, that we , humans, are a part of God, with a godlike ability to create or destroy, and that ability is far far beyond what we think it is. We just dont know it. It does throw up a depressing thought, that in the life to come, here or in the spirit, that the eternal war between good and evil is eternal, and that this world is deciding whos side your on. Thats not the bible thats me. That humans who are evil cannot be totally controlled and be limited, because they, and we are eternal. In science, eternity seems to exist. So, the existence of evil has an explanation, and maybe we should be grateful its not worse. Maybe it is in other spheres. Like Mr Putin, you cant do that and expect God, or higher beings to be impressed, and greet you in heaven with a cup of tea and a Rich tea. Near death experiencers report the existence of hell. I read a book published in the 18 century, outlining life after death in a mathematical way with tables. The important thing is that death in the spirit does indeed exist. If a soul continues in evil ways, stretching into the far distance of time, absent of self reflection conscience etc, then it will die. Not in an easy way, like humans, but in a way that encompasses millenia slowly, and is dreadful in its presentation, and is horrific. As below, so above. Im referring to the Universe, and all thats in it. Fred West etc, i dont want to downplay your fathers best mates experience, but, Fred Wests are ten a penny, ive read casenotes of inmates in Rampton special hospital, bad people are everywhere, many well disguised. This world is evil, no doubt about it, with many creative ways of performing such, no argument at all. Well that’s another thing. Near death experiences. I’ve died three times now. Each time I’ve come back to a miserable world populated by people with worried looks on their faces and twice with paddles in their hands. But apart from the first one where I swear I SANK to the floor between the ambulances axles the others were like my general anaesthetic. Lights out you’re gone. Sorry. |
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Post by Toreador on Jan 10, 2023 21:44:30 GMT
John, im saying that people who are evil are also God, there is no distinction, on a path to something better or worse. Confession, apart from atonement, is keeping yourself grounded, in touch with yourself. At the start of the catholic mass there is a prayer, i think its called the I confess, that it repeats its my fault my fault my fault. The bible repeats over and over, that we , humans, are a part of God, with a godlike ability to create or destroy, and that ability is far far beyond what we think it is. We just dont know it. It does throw up a depressing thought, that in the life to come, here or in the spirit, that the eternal war between good and evil is eternal, and that this world is deciding whos side your on. Thats not the bible thats me. That humans who are evil cannot be totally controlled and be limited, because they, and we are eternal. In science, eternity seems to exist. So, the existence of evil has an explanation, and maybe we should be grateful its not worse. Maybe it is in other spheres. Like Mr Putin, you cant do that and expect God, or higher beings to be impressed, and greet you in heaven with a cup of tea and a Rich tea. Near death experiencers report the existence of hell. I read a book published in the 18 century, outlining life after death in a mathematical way with tables. The important thing is that death in the spirit does indeed exist. If a soul continues in evil ways, stretching into the far distance of time, absent of self reflection conscience etc, then it will die. Not in an easy way, like humans, but in a way that encompasses millenia slowly, and is dreadful in its presentation, and is horrific. As below, so above. Im referring to the Universe, and all thats in it. Fred West etc, i dont want to downplay your fathers best mates experience, but, Fred Wests are ten a penny, ive read casenotes of inmates in Rampton special hospital, bad people are everywhere, many well disguised. This world is evil, no doubt about it, with many creative ways of performing such, no argument at all. Well that’s another thing. Near death experiences. I’ve died three times now. Each time I’ve come back to a miserable world populated by people with worried looks on their faces and twice with paddles in their hands. But apart from the first one where I swear I SANK to the floor between the ambulances axles the others were like my general anaesthetic. Lights out you’re gone. Sorry. No need to be sorry. I suffered the most horrendous hallucinations in intensive care when recovering from major surgery. They were pumping opiates into me at a rate of knots for 6 days. Not only were there visual hallucinations but problems kept presenting themselves, problems that I neither understood or could solve, I didn't even know whether I was awake, asleep or even dead when they were occurring. Things weren't made easy by the fact I was on one of theos circulation aids that move the legs. Not an experience I would ever want again. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 10, 2023 23:10:59 GMT
The funny thing about Morphine I found when I was given it, to help me with the pain of being removed from the car smash, was that it left me thinking I was rational and thinking clearly when I absolutely was nothing of the sort. That memory and my later reflection on it came in very handy when my friends missus utterly freaked out at her dad in end stage cancer getting out of bed disconnecting his lines and going for a walk.
He was found in the hospital garden thank f**k.
I had to take her aside and remind her of her first year lectures on pharmacology as in how that stuff works a what it can do. She calmed down a lot then. People forget lots when stress hits.
I consider superstition a matter beneath contempt. Well, I did. But my mini stroke came out of nowhere after I sat down at a chair in the dining room to eat two lightly boiled eggs with brown bread and butter while watching a cowboy movie on Netflix.
To this day since I get anxious about watching westerns on TV while eating in the living room with the tv in, and I’ve never eaten boiled eggs in the room since. I’ve no idea what actually triggered my mini stroke and I’m in no hurry to repeat the exact process prior to having it.
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