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Post by thomas on Dec 29, 2022 17:03:10 GMT
Im a tory propagandist now am i? 
Well , my auld dad was a scottish tory , my mum labour , but sadly old boy i have never voted tory in my entire life.
I can though smell political bullshite a mile off , which is why i dont vote new labour. Or agree with much of what you say....
There is nothing logical about your position, it consists of bias, misguided opinions and the denial of truthful facts that you do not like. And that is about as bullshit ridden as it is possible to get. ...because i dare to question new labour , their past inglorious record and disgracefull legacy?
My position is highly logical . Everytime labour are in power , i and most of my family are worse off which is why we dont vote labour.
Its not as though you havent been given a chance. You ran my home city of glasgow uninterupted for 80 years , and took it from the second city of the empire to the worst in the developed world.
Every constituency you take over , you run into the ground and make the people impoverished.
Seems all the working class places of the uk have woken up to you these past twelve years , with the exception of the welsh valleys.
New labour are nothing more than the party of the southern english middle class liberals .
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Post by see2 on Dec 29, 2022 19:57:07 GMT
There is nothing logical about your position, it consists of bias, misguided opinions and the denial of truthful facts that you do not like. And that is about as bullshit ridden as it is possible to get. ...because i dare to question new labour , their past inglorious record and disgracefull legacy?
My position is highly logical . Everytime labour are in power , i and most of my family are worse off which is why we dont vote labour.
Its not as though you havent been given a chance. You ran my home city of glasgow uninterupted for 80 years , and took it from the second city of the empire to the worst in the developed world.
Every constituency you take over , you run into the ground and make the people impoverished.
Seems all the working class places of the uk have woken up to you these past twelve years , with the exception of the welsh valleys.
New labour are nothing more than the party of the southern english middle class liberals .
That's what I mean about your bias and your over opinionated foolishness. 1. Once again you offer opinion as though they were facts. 2. 3. New Labour were only in office for 13 years. You either can't or just don't wont to sort out your opinions from the reality. 4. A very stupid comment to make without any facts to back it up. 5. Your bigoted biased posting is not even pretend debate. 6. Tony Blair is Scottish and a major reason for NL's magnificent successes. You know the successes that you refuse to even think about. It is clear that you have nothing other than opinion and extreme bias to offer. And that is not debate so I am wasting my time trying to debate with you. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2022 20:15:27 GMT
...because i dare to question new labour , their past inglorious record and disgracefull legacy?
My position is highly logical . Everytime labour are in power , i and most of my family are worse off which is why we dont vote labour.
Its not as though you havent been given a chance. You ran my home city of glasgow uninterupted for 80 years , and took it from the second city of the empire to the worst in the developed world.
Every constituency you take over , you run into the ground and make the people impoverished.
Seems all the working class places of the uk have woken up to you these past twelve years , with the exception of the welsh valleys.
New labour are nothing more than the party of the southern english middle class liberals .
That's what I mean about your bias and your over opinionated foolishness. 1. Once again you offer opinion as though they were facts. 2. 3. New Labour were only in office for 13 years. You either can't or just don't wont to sort out your opinions from the reality. 4. A very stupid comment to make without any facts to back it up. 5. Your bigoted biased posting is not even pretend debate. 6. Tony Blair is Scottish and a major reason for NL's magnificent successes. You know the successes that you refuse to even think about. It is clear that you have nothing other than opinion and extreme bias to offer. And that is not debate so I am wasting my time trying to debate with you. So Thomas is another extremist, is he? And did New Labour's "magnificent successes" include the Iraq War, tuition fees, the appearance of the first food banks, detention without trial, and the continuation in full of thatcherite housing policies? And Blair might well have originated in Scotland but he was about as Scottish as a fake plastic haggis on Brighton pier. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 29, 2022 20:27:41 GMT
Oh the irony from someone who didn't even know that Ummuna was most recently a Lib Dem candidate. Have you posted this to the correct forum member steve?
You seem confused mate. I made that observation about him 6 posts before you posted .
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you missed or , or are on the sherry early.
Yes you had said he'd joined the Libs but your ad hom loaded post referred to him being a backbencher (which he was for Labour) |
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Post by Steve on Dec 29, 2022 20:38:31 GMT
You've had it loads of times at that other place. Right now Hansard is returning 'An error occurred loading the search results. Please try again later.'Just remember I am not disputing that Cable disagreed with Brown in 2002, I am disputing the claim that Cable (did the impossible) in forecasting the International financial meltdown in 2008 Hansard is now fixed And remember I didn't say Cable predicted the international meltdown, he warned Brown about the UK meltdown Brown was brewing hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2002-10-30/debates/a9135824-dac3-4543-9b73-3e8fe30fa6e5/ConsumerDebt?highlight=bank%20england#contribution-5c751634-3d15-40c4-a9f9-96ec11676c3f 'I understand that in the past five years consumer credit debt has grown by about 55 per cent. In the 1980s it roughly doubled, so we are in the middle of a boom of the sort that last happened when Nigel Lawson was Chancellor, which came to a messy end. One hopes that this time things will not end in the same way. One must ask under what conditions the boom could come to a sticky end. The relevant figures were accompanied by a veiled warning from the Bank of England, in the coded language of its chief economist, that there could well be trouble along the road.
How could the trouble arise? The one thing that makes individual consumer debt unsustainable is unemployment. My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, West (John Barrett) referred to that. As the Liberal Democrat Member of Parliament for Edinburgh, West, he has long-term, secure employment, but many of our constituents do not.
I am forcefully reminded of that when I think about my constituency, which is in many ways a model of the new prosperity. We have virtually no unemployment. House prices have gone through the roof and the prosperity is visible. However, last month, for the first time in seven years, there was a sharp increase in unemployment. People are being laid off on a serious scale by the IT industry and by City accountants. That effect is spreading through the hitherto highly prosperous suburbs of south-west London. The first signs of serious problems are beginning to appear.
What happened in the 1980s will happen now. As people are laid off, their first task is to protect their mortgage. Many of them have heavily over-borrowed. They give first priority to their mortgage payments, but that puts pressure on their other consumer debt, much of which is credit card debt and conventional bank loans. Half of all consumer debt is credit card debt. Such people then find it difficult to escape their obligations, so they borrow in order to finance their borrowings and end up in a distressing cycle.
Although the British economy is in relatively good shape compared with those of other rich countries, recession is rolling in from the United States, Germany and Japan, and compounded by deflation—which none of us has experienced because it last happened 70 or 80 years ago—it might affect us. A world in which prices are falling is an horrific environment if one is a debtor because the value of the debt rises instead of falling over time, and one gets into a debt trap. I can envisage an alarming situation arising for people who already have high levels of consumer debt.' |
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Post by see2 on Dec 29, 2022 21:09:51 GMT
That's what I mean about your bias and your over opinionated foolishness. 1. Once again you offer opinion as though they were facts. 2. 3. New Labour were only in office for 13 years. You either can't or just don't wont to sort out your opinions from the reality. 4. A very stupid comment to make without any facts to back it up. 5. Your bigoted biased posting is not even pretend debate. 6. Tony Blair is Scottish and a major reason for NL's magnificent successes. You know the successes that you refuse to even think about. It is clear that you have nothing other than opinion and extreme bias to offer. And that is not debate so I am wasting my time trying to debate with you. So Thomas is another extremist, is he? And did New Labour's "magnificent successes" include the Iraq War, tuition fees, the appearance of the first food banks, detention without trial, and the continuation in full of thatcherite housing policies? And Blair might well have originated in Scotland but he was about as Scottish as a fake plastic haggis on Brighton pier. 1. There isn't any need for your dumb arse supposed to be questions. 2. I was referring to their "magnificent" successes, some of which were posted on the forum recently from Brown's 2000 speech to the TUC. Facts that I have no doubt you do not have the faintest clue about. 3. Iraq was a legal invasion recognised as legal and in line with international law. ---- Tuition fees were seen as necessary to fund University education. 1992 – The Conservative government’s Education Act paved the way for polytechnics and colleges of higher education to become universities.---- The first food bank was opened by the Trussell Trust in 2000. Those who required it use, were not a victim of NL laws or rules, the truth is food banks had been needed for years before NL come to office. NL was working hard for relief for the low paid and unemployed. (See Brown's 2000 speech to the TUC). 4. NL built many more Affordable Homes than Thatcher built council houses, where the 'renter' was actually buying part of the property, rather than paying a lifetime rent with nothing to show for it at the end. Council houses of which Thatcher built more of than NL (and also sold more of) took the council 30 years to get their money back, but after that it was all profit for the Council. 5. More silly unproveable nonsense, it seems to be about your level. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 29, 2022 21:34:33 GMT
Just remember I am not disputing that Cable disagreed with Brown in 2002, I am disputing the claim that Cable (did the impossible) in forecasting the International financial meltdown in 2008 Hansard is now fixed And remember I didn't say Cable predicted the international meltdown, he warned Brown about the UK meltdown Brown was brewing hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2002-10-30/debates/a9135824-dac3-4543-9b73-3e8fe30fa6e5/ConsumerDebt?highlight=bank%20england#contribution-5c751634-3d15-40c4-a9f9-96ec11676c3f 'I understand that in the past five years consumer credit debt has grown by about 55 per cent. In the 1980s it roughly doubled, so we are in the middle of a boom of the sort that last happened when Nigel Lawson was Chancellor, which came to a messy end. One hopes that this time things will not end in the same way. One must ask under what conditions the boom could come to a sticky end. The relevant figures were accompanied by a veiled warning from the Bank of England, in the coded language of its chief economist, that there could well be trouble along the road.
How could the trouble arise? The one thing that makes individual consumer debt unsustainable is unemployment. My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, West (John Barrett) referred to that. As the Liberal Democrat Member of Parliament for Edinburgh, West, he has long-term, secure employment, but many of our constituents do not.
I am forcefully reminded of that when I think about my constituency, which is in many ways a model of the new prosperity. We have virtually no unemployment. House prices have gone through the roof and the prosperity is visible. However, last month, for the first time in seven years, there was a sharp increase in unemployment. People are being laid off on a serious scale by the IT industry and by City accountants. That effect is spreading through the hitherto highly prosperous suburbs of south-west London. The first signs of serious problems are beginning to appear.
What happened in the 1980s will happen now. As people are laid off, their first task is to protect their mortgage. Many of them have heavily over-borrowed. They give first priority to their mortgage payments, but that puts pressure on their other consumer debt, much of which is credit card debt and conventional bank loans. Half of all consumer debt is credit card debt. Such people then find it difficult to escape their obligations, so they borrow in order to finance their borrowings and end up in a distressing cycle.
Although the British economy is in relatively good shape compared with those of other rich countries, recession is rolling in from the United States, Germany and Japan, and compounded by deflation—which none of us has experienced because it last happened 70 or 80 years ago—it might affect us. A world in which prices are falling is an horrific environment if one is a debtor because the value of the debt rises instead of falling over time, and one gets into a debt trap. I can envisage an alarming situation arising for people who already have high levels of consumer debt.'--"And remember I didn't say Cable predicted the international meltdown, he warned Brown about the UK meltdown Brown was brewing".- - Sorry Ste, but just about every time I posted no one warned the International Financial Meltdown would happen, you hit me with Cable and that Cable did. Thread was quite informative even though there was a noticeable 'hope' and 'Might' in there. The problem pot was given as half that under Lawson. The main reason given for causing problems to arise was unemployment. The UK had high employment up to 2008, so I think it is reasonable to say, no international meltdown then no major crisis for the UK in 2008. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 29, 2022 21:55:21 GMT
Except I have been very clear and you keep trying to divert off the point. Cable warned Brown on the record that he was leading us to a massive crash.
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Post by Toreador on Dec 29, 2022 22:29:02 GMT
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Post by see2 on Dec 29, 2022 22:46:21 GMT
Except I have been very clear and you keep trying to divert off the point. Cable warned Brown on the record that he was leading us to a massive crash. No Cable opinionated that a crash could happen and it did, in terms of a housing crash that wasn't anything like as bad as the ones under the Tories. A crash that was over quite quickly and where there is no reason not to think it would have been even easier to handle but for the, I F meltdown. At least you have now made it clear that Cable was not forecasting and did not forecast the International Financial Meltdown. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 29, 2022 23:15:18 GMT
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Post by Toreador on Dec 30, 2022 7:01:15 GMT
Except I have been very clear and you keep trying to divert off the point. Cable warned Brown on the record that he was leading us to a massive crash. No Cable opinionated that a crash could happen and it did, in terms of a housing crash that wasn't anything like as bad as the ones under the Tories. A crash that was over quite quickly and where there is no reason not to think it would have been even easier to handle but for the, I F meltdown. At least you have now made it clear that Cable was not forecasting and did not forecast the International Financial Meltdown. I spent most of my working life in the construction industry and it is an excellent barometer of the economy, whether it's house building or industrial/commercial projects. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2022 7:52:46 GMT
So Thomas is another extremist, is he? And did New Labour's "magnificent successes" include the Iraq War, tuition fees, the appearance of the first food banks, detention without trial, and the continuation in full of thatcherite housing policies? And Blair might well have originated in Scotland but he was about as Scottish as a fake plastic haggis on Brighton pier. 1. There isn't any need for your dumb arse supposed to be questions. 2. I was referring to their "magnificent" successes, some of which were posted on the forum recently from Brown's 2000 speech to the TUC. Facts that I have no doubt you do not have the faintest clue about. 3. Iraq was a legal invasion recognised as legal and in line with international law. ---- Tuition fees were seen as necessary to fund University education. 1992 – The Conservative government’s Education Act paved the way for polytechnics and colleges of higher education to become universities.---- The first food bank was opened by the Trussell Trust in 2000. Those who required it use, were not a victim of NL laws or rules, the truth is food banks had been needed for years before NL come to office. NL was working hard for relief for the low paid and unemployed. (See Brown's 2000 speech to the TUC). 4. NL built many more Affordable Homes than Thatcher built council houses, where the 'renter' was actually buying part of the property, rather than paying a lifetime rent with nothing to show for it at the end. Council houses of which Thatcher built more of than NL (and also sold more of) took the council 30 years to get their money back, but after that it was all profit for the Council. 5. More silly unproveable nonsense, it seems to be about your level. You'd defend absolutely anything if it was done by Blair like some kind of cult follower. You are for example one of the very few people around here stupid enough to still defend the Iraq War. And just to take your point on affordable housing. Helping a few more people to buy as opposed to providing more social housing for the many who cannot is a typical Tory-lite policy, and typically soft thatcherite. As ever you are convincing no one but yourself. There are always going to be millions who can never afford to buy. Affordable housing to rent is essential for these. Why should buying be the be all and end all? So typically Tory? Blairite |
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Post by thomas on Dec 30, 2022 10:18:36 GMT
That's what I mean about your bias and your over opinionated foolishness. 1. Once again you offer opinion as though they were facts. 2. 3. New Labour were only in office for 13 years. You either can't or just don't wont to sort out your opinions from the reality. 4. A very stupid comment to make without any facts to back it up. 5. Your bigoted biased posting is not even pretend debate. 6. Tony Blair is Scottish and a major reason for NL's magnificent successes. You know the successes that you refuse to even think about. It is clear that you have nothing other than opinion and extreme bias to offer. And that is not debate so I am wasting my time trying to debate with you. So Thomas is another extremist, is he? And did New Labour's "magnificent successes" include the Iraq War, tuition fees, the appearance of the first food banks, detention without trial, and the continuation in full of thatcherite housing policies? And Blair might well have originated in Scotland but he was about as Scottish as a fake plastic haggis on Brighton pier. Thanks steve for your support . Succinctly put.
Tony blair might have been born in a stable but it doesnt make him a horse.....
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Post by thomas on Dec 30, 2022 10:19:20 GMT
Have you posted this to the correct forum member steve?
You seem confused mate. I made that observation about him 6 posts before you posted .
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you missed or , or are on the sherry early.
Yes you had said he'd joined the Libs but your ad hom loaded post referred to him being a backbencher (which he was for Labour) glad we cleared up your little misunderstanding steve. |
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