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Post by see2 on Dec 30, 2022 10:21:53 GMT
1. There isn't any need for your dumb arse supposed to be questions. 2. I was referring to their "magnificent" successes, some of which were posted on the forum recently from Brown's 2000 speech to the TUC. Facts that I have no doubt you do not have the faintest clue about. 3. Iraq was a legal invasion recognised as legal and in line with international law. ---- Tuition fees were seen as necessary to fund University education. 1992 – The Conservative government’s Education Act paved the way for polytechnics and colleges of higher education to become universities.---- The first food bank was opened by the Trussell Trust in 2000. Those who required it use, were not a victim of NL laws or rules, the truth is food banks had been needed for years before NL come to office. NL was working hard for relief for the low paid and unemployed. (See Brown's 2000 speech to the TUC). 4. NL built many more Affordable Homes than Thatcher built council houses, where the 'renter' was actually buying part of the property, rather than paying a lifetime rent with nothing to show for it at the end. Council houses of which Thatcher built more of than NL (and also sold more of) took the council 30 years to get their money back, but after that it was all profit for the Council. 5. More silly unproveable nonsense, it seems to be about your level. You'd defend absolutely anything if it was done by Blair like some kind of cult follower. You are for example one of the very few people around here stupid enough to still defend the Iraq War. And just to take your point on affordable housing. Helping a few more people to buy as opposed to providing more social housing for the many who cannot is a typical Tory-lite policy, and typically soft thatcherite. As ever you are convincing no one but yourself. There are always going to be millions who can never afford to buy. Affordable housing to rent is essential for these. Why should buying be the be all and end all? So typically Tory? Blairite 1. You start with a lie, your comment makes you look like a sad and sorrowful little child. 2. The truth of the Iraq war situation proving that you and most of the people around you are the stupid ones who have chosen to make the invasion a political war against NL. How pathetic. UN Res. 1483 22 May 2003 (Vote14-0-0) Recognized the US and the UK as occupying powers under international law, with legitimate authority in Iraq. Removed economic sanctions imposed during the Gulf War. Syria did not vote on the measure. 3.Rent in a council or housing association home - Shelter England Most rents charged by councils or housing associations are called social rents. Social rents are usually lower than rents for similar private rented properties. Council and housing association landlords can also charge up to 80% of market rents on some of their homes, usually new-build properties. This is called affordable rent.The people in Affordable Homes would have been paying rent for some form of housing anyway, so why not get something back after 25 years of payments? Only someone far enough left to merit the term extremist would post such drivel as you post while at the same time managing to regularly get so many things wrong in a post. |
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Post by thomas on Dec 30, 2022 10:26:40 GMT
Except I have been very clear and you keep trying to divert off the point. Cable warned Brown on the record that he was leading us to a massive crash. At last steve something we fully agree on.
I liked vince cable , thought he was a decent person and politician .
See 2 is simply trying to gloss over browns mistakes , and the labour parties disgracefull record when last in power , where their policy and direction , including ignoring warnings helped create the crash that affected us throughout the uk.
My cousin at the time lived in browns constituency , and she told me had he not walked when he did , the constituents would have pushed him such was the intense and growing dislike of the people of kirkcaldy and cowdenbeath for this outright clown and new labour chancer.
No matter how much new labour cultists like see 2 try and polish the turd that is brown and blair , the rest of us despise them for their record in government , with many of the problems we live with today including massive debt (they bequeathed the uk during the sunshine of an economic boom when they had no need to) angering the public in both scotland and england.
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Post by Toreador on Dec 30, 2022 10:37:02 GMT
Except I have been very clear and you keep trying to divert off the point. Cable warned Brown on the record that he was leading us to a massive crash. At last steve something we fully agree on.
I liked vince cable , thought he was a decent person and politician .
See 2 is simply trying to gloss over browns mistakes , and the labour parties disgracefull record when last in power , where their policy and direction , including ignoring warnings helped create the crash that affected us throughout the uk.
My cousin at the time lived in browns constituency , and she told me had he not walked when he did , the constituents would have pushed him such was the intense and growing dislike of the people of kirkcaldy and cowdenbeath for this outright clown and new labour chancer.
No matter how much new labour cultists like see 2 try and polish the turd that is brown and blair , the rest of us despise them for their record in government , with many of the problems we live with today including massive debt (they bequeathed the uk during the sunshine of an economic boom when they had no need to) angering the public in both scotland and england.
Cable was two-faced. He was Brown's advisor on more than one occasion, he was also trying to arrange a Lib/Con coalition at the time when Clegg was talking to Cameron. Having said that, it may have been a LibDem plan. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 30, 2022 10:46:17 GMT
Except I have been very clear and you keep trying to divert off the point. Cable warned Brown on the record that he was leading us to a massive crash. At last steve something we fully agree on.
I liked vince cable , thought he was a decent person and politician .
See 2 is simply trying to gloss over browns mistakes , and the labour parties disgracefull record when last in power , where their policy and direction , including ignoring warnings helped create the crash that affected us throughout the uk.
My cousin at the time lived in browns constituency , and she told me had he not walked when he did , the constituents would have pushed him such was the intense and growing dislike of the people of kirkcaldy and cowdenbeath for this outright clown and new labour chancer.
No matter how much new labour cultists like see 2 try and polish the turd that is brown and blair , the rest of us despise them for their record in government , with many of the problems we live with today including massive debt (they bequeathed the uk during the sunshine of an economic boom when they had no need to) angering the public in both scotland and england.
I have already answered that post and clarified the position after reading Steve's missive on the situation. The ongoing dispute between Steve and myself was based upon the fact that every time I posted that no one forecast the international financial meltdown Steve would come back with 'Cable did' FACT Cable did not forecast a massive crash, he opinionated a possible internal financial crash, there was one but it was less than the previous mortgage crashes under the Tories, and was quite quickly overcome. It is now accepted that Cable did not and could not have forecast the international financial meltdown. And that Brown did not cause that meltdown. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 30, 2022 11:42:10 GMT
But that's about the USA crash. Not the one that Brown and Meryn (I'm still on for that knighthood aren't I Gordon) King vested on the UK despite the warnings from the Bank of England analysts and Vince Cable But Brown knew he had to buy that 2005 election with an obscene household debt fuelled boom or he'd never be PM. And to Brown any principle could be sacrificed to make sure he became PM. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 30, 2022 12:19:10 GMT
But that's about the USA crash. Not the one that Brown and Meryn (I'm still on for that knighthood aren't I Gordon) King vested on the UK despite the warnings from the Bank of England analysts and Vince Cable But Brown knew he had to buy that 2005 election with an obscene household debt fuelled boom or he'd never be PM. And to Brown any principle could be sacrificed to make sure he became PM. His post is about what caused the international financial meltdown. i.e. The real crash. Why not drop the shite personal attacks on Brown, they are only your opinions and are absolutely unnecessary. It is time for you to reveal just when this Cable formed opinion crash took place. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 30, 2022 12:34:58 GMT
If you'd looked his post was in response to our discussion about the UK crash and if you think it's only me that blames Brown for the UK crash you are so  And started in 2005, hit big in 2007 |
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Post by see2 on Dec 30, 2022 12:56:03 GMT
If you'd looked his post was in response to our discussion about the UK crash and if you think it's only me that blames Brown for the UK crash you are so And started in 2005, hit big in 2007 His post was about the problems in America caused by the failure of the sub-prime mortgages. Some of the Banks in America along with the government tried to rescue the situation right up to 2008, but it was all too late. That was the cause of the IFM. The only thing big that happened in 2007 was the growing suspicions that there was a banking problem. As Brown said, after the fall of Northern Rock, "this is a Banking problem, let the Banks sort it out". |
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Post by Steve on Dec 30, 2022 13:03:03 GMT
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Post by thomas on Dec 30, 2022 13:45:32 GMT
At last steve something we fully agree on.
I liked vince cable , thought he was a decent person and politician .
See 2 is simply trying to gloss over browns mistakes , and the labour parties disgracefull record when last in power , where their policy and direction , including ignoring warnings helped create the crash that affected us throughout the uk.
My cousin at the time lived in browns constituency , and she told me had he not walked when he did , the constituents would have pushed him such was the intense and growing dislike of the people of kirkcaldy and cowdenbeath for this outright clown and new labour chancer.
No matter how much new labour cultists like see 2 try and polish the turd that is brown and blair , the rest of us despise them for their record in government , with many of the problems we live with today including massive debt (they bequeathed the uk during the sunshine of an economic boom when they had no need to) angering the public in both scotland and england.
I posted that no one forecast the international financial meltdown Steve would come back with 'Cable did' i gave you a link the other day showing six well know economists worldwide who forecast the financial crash , with many voices in the uk as steve has suggested warning brown over the recklessness and casino gambling of the banks which he ignored.
...becuase blair and brown were not respnsible for every single iota of the global financial crash , which of course is a strawman of yours as very few if any suggested they were, doesnt mean they werent responsible in a large part for the events in the uk.
Labour governed for thirteen years in the sunshine of an economic boom others bequethed to them , and instead of leaving an economy and balance sheet fit for any incoming government at either holyrood or westmisnter to build on , they left debt , austerity and notes mocking there were no money left.
New labour cannot be trusted with the economy as their record shows. Hopefully the public will not forget .
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Post by thomas on Dec 30, 2022 14:10:06 GMT
But that's about the USA crash. Not the one that Brown and Meryn (I'm still on for that knighthood aren't I Gordon) King vested on the UK despite the warnings from the Bank of England analysts and Vince Cable But Brown knew he had to buy that 2005 election with an obscene household debt fuelled boom or he'd never be PM. And to Brown any principle could be sacrificed to make sure he became PM. Didnt the lib dem treasurey spokesperson of the day lord oakshot also predict the crash and ask demanding questions of the direction the new labour government were headed....?
Also in this article here the liberals were attacking brown over his recklessnes a year before the acutal crash happened...
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Post by Steve on Dec 30, 2022 15:12:17 GMT
I wish I could find it but I read a report that the major banks went to Gordon Brown and told him the reckless banks were endangering the economy AND killing their businesses so if he didn't act they'd be forced to also be reckless and the end result would be even worse. Brown didn't act, he made his choice.
New Labour started out very well 1997-2001 but then Blair took his eye off the ball, allowed himself to be played by Bush and worse started to posture to be that pan EU president. Brown seeing Labour support warning just became more and more reckless. It was just the house levered debt boom he also used PFI to kick on books government spending down the road while trying to present a rosy financies and social programmes position in 2005. It was never sustainable.
But the basic New Labour premise of run a successful capitalist economy to provide through taxes a socialist decent society for all was and remains a good one.
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Post by see2 on Dec 30, 2022 15:57:50 GMT
Thank you for proving my point, Even though it happened during the IFM it was a smaller housing bust than previous ones and was quite quickly resolved. It would likely have been resolved even quicker but for the IFM. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 30, 2022 16:07:19 GMT
I posted that no one forecast the international financial meltdown Steve would come back with 'Cable did' i gave you a link the other day showing six well know economists worldwide who forecast the financial crash , with many voices in the uk as steve has suggested warning brown over the recklessness and casino gambling of the banks which he ignored.
Nouriel Roubini was the one given the most credibility, and I explained that he never made a forecast on the IFM. NO ONE DID, now either show me the verbatim proof that someone did, or let it go. |
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Post by thomas on Dec 30, 2022 16:11:47 GMT
I wish I could find it but I read a report that the major banks went to Gordon Brown and told him the reckless banks were endangering the economy AND killing their businesses so if he didn't act they'd be forced to also be reckless and the end result would be even worse. Brown didn't act, he made his choice. New Labour started out very well 1997-2001 but then Blair took his eye off the ball, allowed himself to be played by Bush and worse started to posture to be that pan EU president. Brown seeing Labour support warning just became more and more reckless. It was just the house levered debt boom he also used PFI to kick on books government spending down the road while trying to present a rosy financies and social programmes position in 2005. It was never sustainable. But the basic New Labour premise of run a successful capitalist economy to provide through taxes a socialist decent society for all was and remains a good one. Good post steve. dont agree with your final sentence ,but thats a question of personal political view , but the fact of the matter is as many commentators have said that the labour party (old) were so surprised by the surprsie defeat in the 92 general election , it panicked , abandoned gradually everything it once stood for and hurled the baby and the bathwater out and gave us tony blair and new labour , a party that was to offer policy a fag papers width to the tories that it practically became the tories in all but name.
Its the counterbalance in the old two party left/right system , that is now gone , that has fatally destroyed uk politics , among many of the modern elephants in the room such as euroscepticsim , northern irish politics and of course scot indy .
you cant turn back the clock to a political age long gone , as i think keir starmer is going to find.
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