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Post by see2 on Dec 28, 2022 12:23:08 GMT
If it had been an entirely bad performance by NL they would have been voted out of office. Eh? Have you missed the past 12 years and counting in england and fifteen in scotland? They were voted out , and kept out of office because people had had enough of them and thier disasterous governance.
new labour wrote the book on propaganda. BBC scotland for example is staffed full of thier toadies and always have been.
yawn. Dont try move the goalposts when faced with the uncomfortable fact new labour compared to old labour have been abysmall.
im neither a tory , foolish lefty and i dont want to see new labour back in charge of either scotland or the uk while we are in it.
Their abysmall and disasterous record , as we are discussing speaks for itself.
1. Pure opinion. New Labour were killed by poisonous propaganda in 2010. 2. More misguided opinion as in (1. above). 3. Utter overopinionated nonsense. 4. You can only make such comments about NL if you know sweet FA about New Labour, and you obviously do know FA about New Labour. Opinions are ten-are-ten-a-penny. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 28, 2022 12:25:21 GMT
1. Pure opinion. New Labour were killed by poisonous propaganda in 2010.
2. More misguided opinion as in (1. above).
3. Utter overopinionated nonsense.
4. You can only make such comments about NL if you know sweet FA about New Labour, and you obviously do know FA about New Labour.
Opinions are ten-are-ten-a-penny.
LOL no there was definitely bad management and new labours psychology of it wasn't us it was them.
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Post by see2 on Dec 28, 2022 12:29:00 GMT
I have verbally battered Thatcher's nonsense too many times to be referred to as a Thatcherite. Didnt margaret thatcher allegedly say tony blair and new labour were her greatest achievement?
Must pull out the old quotes from new labour grandees on their love of margaret thatcher.....
Yes you are right, but don't be misled because what she believed was that a New Labour government was not being controlled by or overly influenced by the Trade Unions. It didn't alter the fact that New Labour undid much of the damage that she imposed on the country. So there was NO DEEP acceptance BY NL of Thatcher's extremist right-wing politics. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 28, 2022 12:31:43 GMT
and they include a lot more people than those included in Lefty, 'let me polish the opposition benches' nonsense. as opposed to the sighs that have run down the new labour opposition benches looking for a spine to run up..... What NL benches ?? |
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Post by thomas on Dec 28, 2022 12:39:29 GMT
Eh? Have you missed the past 12 years and counting in england and fifteen in scotland? They were voted out , and kept out of office because people had had enough of them and thier disasterous governance.
new labour wrote the book on propaganda. BBC scotland for example is staffed full of thier toadies and always have been.
yawn. Dont try move the goalposts when faced with the uncomfortable fact new labour compared to old labour have been abysmall.
im neither a tory , foolish lefty and i dont want to see new labour back in charge of either scotland or the uk while we are in it.
Their abysmall and disasterous record , as we are discussing speaks for itself.
1. Pure opinion. New Labour were killed by poisonous propaganda in 2010. that puerile excuse could be used for every election anyone has ever lost.
They bottled out of democracy in 2015 , and cameron took advantage of the brexit ref promise , while even the liberals mocked new labour.
Meanwhile , corbyns attempt at old labour won a higher vote share than any new labour party in any election apart from blairs 97 victory.
The facts are chiels that winnae ding.
Im so looking forward to watching starmer wriggle on the hook in the run up to the next election. I suspect new labour wont win anything like the vote share predicted , but if they do its going to be hilarious watching the low watt light bulbs in that party grapple with the problems of the modern world.
i suspect the voting public wont find it funny though .....
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Post by thomas on Dec 28, 2022 12:40:14 GMT
as opposed to the sighs that have run down the new labour opposition benches looking for a spine to run up..... What NL benches ?? 2010 2015 and currently ? |
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Post by thomas on Dec 28, 2022 12:43:47 GMT
Didnt margaret thatcher allegedly say tony blair and new labour were her greatest achievement?
Must pull out the old quotes from new labour grandees on their love of margaret thatcher.....
Yes you are right, but don't be misled because what she believed was that a New Labour government was not being controlled by or overly influenced by the Trade Unions. It didn't alter the fact that New Labour undid much of the damage that she imposed on the country. So there was NO DEEP acceptance BY NL of Thatcher's extremist right-wing politics. Im happy that your party doesnt want trade unions controlling or influcening them against labours founding princples. I suspect trade unionists and the left wont be.
What i have a problem with is you lying to them and using their cash and votes for your own lust for power , and betraying the working class when in power.
We know where we stand with pretty much all the other parties , and what they stand for.
New labour will say anything to anyone , and sell their souls for votes as we have seen. Hence why people shouldnt trust you.
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Post by see2 on Dec 28, 2022 12:54:13 GMT
NONE of which explains the disastrous showing of Old Labour since 1951. lets pick apart this drivel and inspect your insinuation.
since 1951 , old labour have won 4 general elections , while new labour won three. Point to old labour.
since 1951, in the 19 elections , old labour have won more votes on average than new labour managed in their stints between 1997 and the 2015 general election . In included corbyns 2017 voters in that figure . point to old labour.
new labours highest vote share since 1951 has been 13.5 million , in 1997 , while old labour beat that in 51 with 13.9 million. point to old labour.
New labours lowest vote share in any GE was browns in 2010 while old labours lowest vote share in any election was foots in 1983. Old labours lowest average vote share was comfortably millions ahead of new labours in practically every single election on record. Showing the voters dont want two tory parties.
Old labour arent the disaster you imply , the disaster is new labours showing.
1. Three. 2. Results are the telling factor. 3. As above. (the turn out reflects the over all reality) 4. the poisoned 2010 election took place in extenuating circumstances while the country was still in the shock of the international meltdown. 5. Old Labour in government between 1951 and and 1978 (27years) 11years, New Labour in government between 1997 and 2010 (13years) 13years. Even then they were undone by a mixture of false propaganda and the International financial meltdown. No amount of your desirously overopinionated posts can change that reality. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 28, 2022 13:11:52 GMT
1. Pure opinion. New Labour were killed by poisonous propaganda in 2010. that puerile excuse could be used for every election anyone has ever lost.
They bottled out of democracy in 2015 , and cameron took advantage of the brexit ref promise , while even the liberals mocked new labour.
Meanwhile , corbyns attempt at old labour won a higher vote share than any new labour party in any election apart from blairs 97 victory.
The facts are chiels that winnae ding.
Im so looking forward to watching starmer wriggle on the hook in the run up to the next election. I suspect new labour wont win anything like the vote share predicted , but if they do its going to be hilarious watching the low watt light bulbs in that party grapple with the problems of the modern world.
i suspect the voting public wont find it funny though .....
1. Nothing puerile about the International Financial Meltdown and the mess it threw Western economies into, a mess still being addressed by austerity until 2019. 2. Ed Miliband was owned in 2015 by Mc Cluskey and the Unite Union. So not NL. 3. Circumstances determine the turn out at elections, result is the only fact that counts. 4. ? 5. An interesting opinion, lets see what happens. Personally I will be surprised if he is the next the PM. But I will be interested in what he gets up to. 6. -------------- |
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Post by thomas on Dec 28, 2022 14:57:25 GMT
lets pick apart this drivel and inspect your insinuation.
since 1951 , old labour have won 4 general elections , while new labour won three. Point to old labour.
since 1951, in the 19 elections , old labour have won more votes on average than new labour managed in their stints between 1997 and the 2015 general election . In included corbyns 2017 voters in that figure . point to old labour.
new labours highest vote share since 1951 has been 13.5 million , in 1997 , while old labour beat that in 51 with 13.9 million. point to old labour.
New labours lowest vote share in any GE was browns in 2010 while old labours lowest vote share in any election was foots in 1983. Old labours lowest average vote share was comfortably millions ahead of new labours in practically every single election on record. Showing the voters dont want two tory parties.
Old labour arent the disaster you imply , the disaster is new labours showing.
1. Three. 2. Results are the telling factor. Four . 64 ,66 , and the two in 74.
4 - 3 to old labour by my calculations. Hardly a disaster for old labour in terms of results being the telling factor as old labour have been in government at westminster more times than your lot.
whats your point new labour caller?
Tony blairs 2001 "landslide" had the lowest turnout in post war uk history , with less than 20 % of the uk electorate endorsing him. The reality was under new labour voters were turned off with none of the above having the biggest support.
You mean the voters had had enough of them by 2010 , after new labour fucked up the economy and left the uk with a mountain of debt , much of it PFI debt we are still paying today?
At least new labour in wales are more honest about it....
i havent laughed so hard since i read alistair darling , the old scottish republican had taken a seat in the lords along with all the rest of the labour toadies.
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Post by thomas on Dec 28, 2022 15:03:36 GMT
that puerile excuse could be used for every election anyone has ever lost.
They bottled out of democracy in 2015 , and cameron took advantage of the brexit ref promise , while even the liberals mocked new labour.
Meanwhile , corbyns attempt at old labour won a higher vote share than any new labour party in any election apart from blairs 97 victory.
The facts are chiels that winnae ding.
Im so looking forward to watching starmer wriggle on the hook in the run up to the next election. I suspect new labour wont win anything like the vote share predicted , but if they do its going to be hilarious watching the low watt light bulbs in that party grapple with the problems of the modern world.
i suspect the voting public wont find it funny though .....
1. Nothing puerile about the International Financial Meltdown and the mess it threw Western economies into, a mess still being addressed by austerity until 2019. 2. Ed Miliband was owned in 2015 by Mc Cluskey and the Unite Union. So not NL. 3. Circumstances determine the turn out at elections, result is the only fact that counts. 4. ? 5. An interesting opinion, lets see what happens. Personally I will be surprised if he is the next the PM. But I will be interested in what he gets up to. 6. -------------- Ed milliband is keir starmers right hand man.
The thing is with new labour is they rely on the mushroom syndrome , keeping voters in the dark and fed on bullshit. The world has moved on from 1997 , and the old tactics of some 13 million voters , largely sympathetic to old labour values , having no where else to ge while new labour ingnored them , took their vote for granted and attempted to out bribe a million or so middle english tory voters in marginals no longer applies.
Indeed lets see what happens.
When push come to shove , new labour have nothing to offere the electorate except they arent the conservatives in name only of course , and its going to be ilarious watching starmer trying to patch up all the lies he has told over brexit.
He is either going to piss off the english north and brexiters in general with his lies about the eu when he takes uk/england back in , or piss off remainers if he is telling the truth by not taking the uk/england back in .
I suspect he will go for some dogs brekfast middle ground and attempt to spin it as compromise , which will of course infuriate all sides. Really looking forward to it immensely.
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Post by thomas on Dec 28, 2022 15:13:49 GMT
that puerile excuse could be used for every election anyone has ever lost.
They bottled out of democracy in 2015 , and cameron took advantage of the brexit ref promise , while even the liberals mocked new labour.
Meanwhile , corbyns attempt at old labour won a higher vote share than any new labour party in any election apart from blairs 97 victory.
The facts are chiels that winnae ding.
Im so looking forward to watching starmer wriggle on the hook in the run up to the next election. I suspect new labour wont win anything like the vote share predicted , but if they do its going to be hilarious watching the low watt light bulbs in that party grapple with the problems of the modern world.
i suspect the voting public wont find it funny though .....
5. An interesting opinion, lets see what happens. Personally I will be surprised if he is the next the PM. But I will be interested in what he gets up to. The real sad thing about so called yookay politics is how a man and party (thats starmer and new new labour) who have been completely and utterly ineffectual for 20 months have somehow managed to get themselves a 36 point lead by doing nothing and sitting on their hands.
If this doesnt send warning signs and show how bad so called democracy is in these islands , i dont know what will.
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Post by see2 on Dec 28, 2022 15:24:38 GMT
2010 2015 and currently ? They have certainly not been there since Ed Miliband was elected as leader of Labour in 2010, gaining that position by a large vote from the leader of the Unite union who owned his arse thereafter. New Labour ceased to exist in 2010. |
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Post by thomas on Dec 28, 2022 15:32:27 GMT
2010 2015 and currently ? They have certainly not been there since Ed Miliband was elected as leader of Labour in 2010, gaining that position by a large vote from the leader of the Unite union who owned his arse thereafter. New Labour ceased to exist in 2010. I think by any margin anyone with an ounce of political nous would regard labour since potentially kinnocks reforms in the late 8`s onwards , with the exception of the corbyn years , as more or less new labour.
Everytime the new new labour lose , its everyones fault from gordon brown to ed milliband , for not being new labour enough.
The one time labour did try to revert back to the old labour style , funnily enough they came within a whisker of taking power in 2017 , with mass party membership and one of the highest vote shares in modern uk history.
i mean you couldnt even call this a poor attempt at sophistry . Are you seriosuly trying to tell the forum keir starmer and blairite new labour havent been in charge of labour these past 20months?
My mate srb steve , former labour member on this very forum , who resigned membership beacuse the blairites took back control , would beg to disagree.
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Post by see2 on Dec 28, 2022 15:32:39 GMT
5. An interesting opinion, lets see what happens. Personally I will be surprised if he is the next the PM. But I will be interested in what he gets up to. The real sad thing about so called yookay politics is how a man and party (thats starmer and new new labour) who have been completely and utterly ineffectual for 20 months have somehow managed to get themselves a 36 point lead by doing nothing and sitting on their hands.
If this doesnt send warning signs and show how bad so called democracy is in these islands , i dont know what will.
They have done a reasonable job of exposing the actual government's weaknesses, while Labour have plenty of time to sell themselves to the electorate. Perhaps in the meantime you should Google and see what Starmer stands for, then you could at least debate from an informed position. |
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