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Post by thomas on Jan 2, 2023 13:49:42 GMT
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Post by jonksy on Jan 2, 2023 13:50:56 GMT
Total bollocks, it is far from FACT. You've had this before but you're still in denial, some of those WMDs fell into the hands of the post war terrorist groups and they even detonated one as an IED (but being thick they didn't know how to make it work as a nerve gas weapon) There is NO PROOF whatsoever that Saddam had WMD’s Rather than quoting the bloody New York Times who don’t even know what side it hangs half the time… Search for links from those at the sharp end who wasted thousands of man hours on a fools errand.
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Post by Steve on Jan 2, 2023 18:03:49 GMT
So you forget that Blair devolved much power to Scotland Ho hum No , the council of europe devolved power to scotland , which as alistair campbell mentions in his memoirs blair was fully against calling it a damn nuisance.....
good read on events here steve...
The council of europes threat to expell the uk if it failed to democratise first landed on john majors lap , and he was kicked out before he could deal with it.
Interesting read but completely delusionary Those of us that know the facts know that far from Blair being forced against his will to devolve power to Scotland he actively campaigned for it You will of course not believe me so read his manifesto: www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1997/1997-labour-manifesto.shtml'We will clean up politics
End the hereditary principle in the House of Lords
Reform of party funding to end sleaze
Devolved power in Scotland and Wales . . . '
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Post by thomas on Jan 2, 2023 18:11:05 GMT
No , the council of europe devolved power to scotland , which as alistair campbell mentions in his memoirs blair was fully against calling it a damn nuisance.....
good read on events here steve...
The council of europes threat to expell the uk if it failed to democratise first landed on john majors lap , and he was kicked out before he could deal with it.
Interesting read but completely delusionary Those of us that know the facts know that far from Blair being forced against his will to devolve power to Scotland he actively campaigned for it You will of course not believe me so read his manifesto: www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1997/1997-labour-manifesto.shtml'We will clean up politics
End the hereditary principle in the House of Lords
Reform of party funding to end sleaze
Devolved power in Scotland and Wales . . . '
oh dear. Steve making silly claims once again. How does posting the labour party manifesto from 1997 contradict what is said in the article?
Did you see the bit where the events of various meetings with scottish political groups and individuals and the councile of europe in 1993 / 1994 forced blairs hand to put the devolution settlement in the 97 manifesto?
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Post by thomas on Jan 2, 2023 18:17:23 GMT
No , the council of europe devolved power to scotland , which as alistair campbell mentions in his memoirs blair was fully against calling it a damn nuisance.....
good read on events here steve...
The council of europes threat to expell the uk if it failed to democratise first landed on john majors lap , and he was kicked out before he could deal with it.
Interesting read but completely delusionary Those of us that know the facts know that far from Blair being forced against his will to devolve power to Scotland he actively campaigned for it You will of course not believe me so read his manifesto: www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1997/1997-labour-manifesto.shtml'We will clean up politics
End the hereditary principle in the House of Lords
Reform of party funding to end sleaze
Devolved power in Scotland and Wales . . . '
Lets put this into further perspective steve .This is the same labour party who had been making empty promises about home rule ( an indy scotland within the british empire , self governing) from the early twentieth century onwards ,who worked hand in glove with the tories to overturn the infamous 1979 devolution referendum , where the 40 % rule was according to tam dalyell the infamous brainchild of labours robin cook , to finally being forced into a corner by the council of europe after events from the mid nineties onwards?
Political fact and history show them the party who stood against devolution despite empty promises for a century , and finally had thier arm twisted into offering up the dogs breaksfast of devolution.
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Post by Steve on Jan 2, 2023 18:40:44 GMT
Interesting read but completely delusionary Those of us that know the facts know that far from Blair being forced against his will to devolve power to Scotland he actively campaigned for it You will of course not believe me so read his manifesto: www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1997/1997-labour-manifesto.shtml'We will clean up politics
End the hereditary principle in the House of Lords
Reform of party funding to end sleaze
Devolved power in Scotland and Wales . . . '
oh dear. Steve making silly claims once again. How does posting the labour party manifesto from 1997 contradict what is said in the article?
Did you see the bit where the events of various meetings with scottish political groups and individuals and the councile of europe in 1993 / 1994 forced blairs hand to put the devolution settlement in the 97 manifesto?
So seems you didn't actually read your own linked article which dishonestly claimed 'John Major and the Conservatives were no doubt very thankful that this hot potato bounced onto the lap of Tony Blair'It's clear from that manifesto that it was anything but because he'd campaigned for it
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Post by Steve on Jan 2, 2023 18:44:13 GMT
You've had this before but you're still in denial, some of those WMDs fell into the hands of the post war terrorist groups and they even detonated one as an IED (but being thick they didn't know how to make it work as a nerve gas weapon) There is NO PROOF whatsoever that Saddam had WMD’s Rather than quoting the bloody New York Times who don’t even know what side it hangs half the time… Search for links from those at the sharp end who wasted thousands of man hours on a fools errand. Are you suffering from NYTophobia? A distressing condition no doubt but one not associated with sane people. And you might want to consider that I didn't reference the NYT. Anyway what you going to bet that no WMDs were found in Iraq after the invasion, your membership of this forum v mine? Oh please please do: www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2004/isg-final-report/isg-final-report_vol3_cw-anx-f.htm May 04: 155mm Chemical Munitions Used as an Improvised Explosive Device
Military units recovered a 155mm artillery round near Baghdad International Airport. Analysis of the residue at the bottom of the round by ISG field labs returned positive indications for sulfur mustard CW agent. and 16 May 2004: 152mm Binary Chemical Improvised Explosive Device
A military unit near Baghdad Airport reported a suspect IED along the main road between the airport and the Green Zone (see figure 2). The munitions were remotely detonated and the remaining liquid tested positive in ISG field labs for the nerve agent Sarin and a key Sarin degradation product.and 16 June 2004: Two 122mm SAKR-18 Artillery Rockets
An Iraqi source turned over to Polish Forces two 122mm rockets obtained at the Khamisiyah Depot—a former CW storage site declared by Iraq to have housed 122mm filled rockets (see Figure 6). Details about the provenance of these rounds remain unclear but the source Sarin/Cyclosarin believes the missiles were housed in a bunker struck during the Gulf war and subsequently hidden in canals and lakes in the area. Analysis of the liquid residue revealed the nerve agents Sarin (GB) and Cyclosarin (GF) as well as a number of impurities and known degradation products of GB and GF.etc etc Just like I said: ukpoliticsdebate.boards.net/post/38224/thread 'But it is a fact that WMDs were found in Iraq after Saddam was defeated, not in any quantity'
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Post by jonksy on Jan 2, 2023 19:00:24 GMT
There is NO PROOF whatsoever that Saddam had WMD’s Rather than quoting the bloody New York Times who don’t even know what side it hangs half the time… Search for links from those at the sharp end who wasted thousands of man hours on a fools errand. Are you suffering from NYTophobia? A distressing condition no doubt but one not associated with sane people. And you might want to consider that I didn't reference the NYT. Anyway what you going to bet that no WMDs were found in Iraq after the invasion, your membership of this forum v mine? Oh please please do: www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2004/isg-final-report/isg-final-report_vol3_cw-anx-f.htm May 04: 155mm Chemical Munitions Used as an Improvised Explosive Device
Military units recovered a 155mm artillery round near Baghdad International Airport. Analysis of the residue at the bottom of the round by ISG field labs returned positive indications for sulfur mustard CW agent. and 16 May 2004: 152mm Binary Chemical Improvised Explosive Device
A military unit near Baghdad Airport reported a suspect IED along the main road between the airport and the Green Zone (see figure 2). The munitions were remotely detonated and the remaining liquid tested positive in ISG field labs for the nerve agent Sarin and a key Sarin degradation product.and 16 June 2004: Two 122mm SAKR-18 Artillery Rockets
An Iraqi source turned over to Polish Forces two 122mm rockets obtained at the Khamisiyah Depot—a former CW storage site declared by Iraq to have housed 122mm filled rockets (see Figure 6). Details about the provenance of these rounds remain unclear but the source Sarin/Cyclosarin believes the missiles were housed in a bunker struck during the Gulf war and subsequently hidden in canals and lakes in the area. Analysis of the liquid residue revealed the nerve agents Sarin (GB) and Cyclosarin (GF) as well as a number of impurities and known degradation products of GB and GF.etc etc Just like I said: ukpoliticsdebate.boards.net/post/38224/thread 'But it is a fact that WMDs were found in Iraq after Saddam was defeated, not in any quantity'Nope. I wsould rather hear it from the horses mouth than from some lefty or swing either way dody news service. Admitedly Saddam was his own worst enemy but there were no WMD's of any consequence. Oh and BTW the UK exported over 5 k rounds of 155 mm artillery shells today to the Ukrain which have far more destructive power than the toys Saddam had.
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Post by Steve on Jan 2, 2023 19:06:57 GMT
Oh look a swerve now he knows he was wrong ^. Shame you didn't take that bet
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Post by jonksy on Jan 2, 2023 19:18:19 GMT
Oh look a swerve now he knows he was wrong ^. Shame you didn't take that bet No swerving here. Unlike some.. Oh dear do you requires assistance LOL? Out of the kindness of my heart I supplied you with a lickle red triangle as we all know you miss them so much. How king am I? Anyway yet again I have better things to do than listen to your snowflackery.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 20:26:55 GMT
Nothing like the instability our invasion caused, lol
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Post by thomas on Jan 2, 2023 20:48:13 GMT
oh dear. Steve making silly claims once again. How does posting the labour party manifesto from 1997 contradict what is said in the article?
Did you see the bit where the events of various meetings with scottish political groups and individuals and the councile of europe in 1993 / 1994 forced blairs hand to put the devolution settlement in the 97 manifesto?
So seems you didn't actually read your own linked article which dishonestly claimed 'John Major and the Conservatives were no doubt very thankful that this hot potato bounced onto the lap of Tony Blair'It's clear from that manifesto that it was anything but because he'd campaigned for it...but do you understand what the "hot potato "was that bounced onto tony blairs lap? of course you do , it was actions earlier mentioned in that part of the article which you convenitently missed out in your cherry picked quote...
The article even goes to great pains to tell how not only was it an ongoing affair that was finally dealt with in 1996 , but that tony blair and new labour( prior to government and prior to their manifesto promise) tried in vain to help kill the earlier scotland un action from vienna in 1993 , which was met with threat of sanctions from the COE if the conservative , then labour governments didnt apply it.
all these events clearly being listed which forced blair hand in his 97 manifesto.
If you dont agree with the article , at least apply some logic and evidence at to why its wrong instead of arguing black is white as you normally do steve.
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Post by Steve on Jan 2, 2023 21:35:03 GMT
So now the story materially changes. Can't be arsed any more, just don't believe a word of it as no source of provenance backs it
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Post by see2 on Jan 3, 2023 0:41:11 GMT
Nothing like the instability our invasion caused, lol So you no longer claim that the invasion was illegal, good. Perhaps you have managed to read and understand the UN resolutions leading up to, and following the invasion. Nothing clears the air better than being well informed. Information beats pure opinion every time.
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Post by jonksy on Jan 3, 2023 0:45:47 GMT
So now the story materially changes. Can't be arsed any more, just don't believe a word of it as no source of provenance backs it LOL you do beleive you are something don't you. The rest of us don't your like the non flusher in the pan.
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