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Post by thomas on Jan 1, 2023 12:13:45 GMT
well said. He got that credibility in part as he was one of the many warning new labour about their disasterous policies which would lead to a financial crash. He was right , as were so many others.
New labour cannot be trusted with the economy. Every man woman and child on these islands know it.
Cable was wrongly given credibility because of the IFM, he did not and could not have forecast the 2008 IFM in 2002. "disasterous policies which would lead to a financial crash" ---- is an opinion, and one that you cannot prove. Unfortunately there are many like yourself who have formed an OPINION that your posted comment above is true, it only PROVES how easy it is to misguide those who want to be misguided. no im glad you let your mask slip and agreed for once honestly , cable gained credibility over predicting new labours financial crash. You insinuated it , not me . |
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Post by see2 on Jan 1, 2023 12:22:43 GMT
The extremism I refer to, as I have posted previously, is the fact that Corbyn was/is more extreme than the moderates in the Labour party. I have made the point more than once that I was not suggesting he was a far-left extremist. Context is important. No he wasnt.
I am no fan of corbyn , i thought him a pretty piss poor politician , but the idea he was an extremist is laughable.
Compared to the moderates in the party Corbyn was MORE EXTREME than the moderates. srb seems to proves my point because it seems that the moderates leading the Party is too much for him to handle and he is no longer a part of the party. It seems he has spit his dummy out of the pram, that's appears to be his reaction to moderate politics. And for me that exposes his need for a more extreme approach. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 1, 2023 12:27:01 GMT
Cable was wrongly given credibility because of the IFM, he did not and could not have forecast the 2008 IFM in 2002. "disasterous policies which would lead to a financial crash" ---- is an opinion, and one that you cannot prove. Unfortunately there are many like yourself who have formed an OPINION that your posted comment above is true, it only PROVES how easy it is to misguide those who want to be misguided. no im glad you let your mask slip and agreed for once honestly , cable gained credibility over predicting new labours financial crash. You insinuated it , not me . That is typical of those who do not know, and who do not what to know. I know what I meant, it is in line with everything I have posted on the issue. Yet you want to whinge it into something else. Can't you see just how sad that is? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2023 12:30:11 GMT
Well said. Labour today is in the hands of a coterie of Establishmentarians, just the other buttock of the same arse. And I was in the party for several years which gave me the experience of seeing them up close at the local level. Plotters and schemers, largely unprincipled in the sense that no principle is too dear to be traded for power, comfortable with Tory opponents but hating the left. They were prepared to destroy the Labour party if thats what it took to stop the left. They saw a Tory government as a lesser evil than a genuinely left wing one. They are now the party of affluent middle class liberals heavily invested in the thatcherite consensus. They have ceased almost entirely to be a working class party, and indeed many of them write off the working class as racists, bigots, xenophobes, and thickoes. Far from representing the working class they hold us in contempt We have discussed the fallacy of blairism , where they largely ignore 13 million people largely sympathetic to the old labour party socialism , taking their votes for granted , while chasing the votes of a million or so tory voters in southern english marginals .
Back then , the left had no where to go , now , its a major challenge for starmer to gain these 13 million voters and take tories daft enough to vote for his lies. What worked once for blair in a bygone era wont work today in my opinion.
New labour , starmers labour arent a party i recognise as what used to constitute labour. They despise the working class , and have literally no time for them. If clowns like anne dodds and rachel reeve are The bright future in new labour for england , or the uk if it remains together short term , then god help all of us.
Indeed. It is because they took working class voters for granted for so long whilst utterly ignoring many of their most pressing concerns re housing, pay, and piss poor work contracts, with low paying employers allowed to get away with using cheap migrant labour to drive down pay, that they slowly but surely lost much of the working class vote. Their main gambit now is to call us stupid for not voting for them anyway on the grounds that this will mean the Tories getting in. They fail utterly to acknowledge that our reason for abandoning them is down to them abandoning us. And we have figured out that constantly voting for them as the lesser evil only encourages them to offer no meaningful change and continue to court the Tory vote exclusively. If they want our votes they need to start addressing our concerns, as the 2017 manifesto tried to do. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2023 12:33:56 GMT
No he wasnt.
I am no fan of corbyn , i thought him a pretty piss poor politician , but the idea he was an extremist is laughable.
Compared to the moderates in the party Corbyn was MORE EXTREME than the moderates. srb seems to proves my point because it seems that the moderates leading the Party is too much for him to handle and he is no longer a part of the party. It seems he has spit his dummy out of the pram, that's appears to be his reaction to moderate politics. And for me that exposes his need for a more extreme approach. I don't recognise you as moderates at all and have said why umpteen times now. It is a self description I do not acknowledge. There is nothing moderate about your conduct and political positions around here. Many will see that you sound more extreme than I do. And I am far more principled than you and took the decision that a party that treats its own members as yours does, led by a proven liar, and abandoning every policy and principle I believed in, actively hating people like me, was not a party I could remain in in good conscience. And Thomas knows this was not a rushed decision but one I agonised over for some time as he criticised me for my continued membership. My decision to leave was not taken lightly but it was a principled one. And principles is something the genuine democratic left tends to have much more of than Blairite chancers. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 1, 2023 12:36:57 GMT
No he wasnt.
I am no fan of corbyn , i thought him a pretty piss poor politician , but the idea he was an extremist is laughable.
Compared to the moderates in the party Corbyn was MORE EXTREME than the moderates. corbyn was the moderate and the blairites the extreme. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 1, 2023 12:41:39 GMT
no im glad you let your mask slip and agreed for once honestly , cable gained credibility over predicting new labours financial crash. You insinuated it , not me . That is typical of those who do not know, and who do not what to know. I know what I meant, it is in line with everything I have posted on the issue. Yet you want to whinge it into something else. Can't you see just how sad that is? Despite having the foundations of an economic boom left to new labour by the previous tory admininstration , it took new labour a mere ten fucking years to bring about the worst financial crash in the uks 300 year economic history.
the light touch regulation and encouragement of the casino gambling was all on your watch .
You fucked up the welsh economy in your years in charge there , with a prominent labour politician in wales claiming you dont know what you are doing on the economy , and we in scotland saw the same before we gave you the boot in 2007.
Glasgow city council is reduced to selling off iconic buildings to pay for new labours previous debt , and you have the cheek to come on here bumming up new labour , tarring others and asking us to put starmers new labour in government in a few years time?
LMFAO.
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Post by thomas on Jan 1, 2023 12:45:35 GMT
We have discussed the fallacy of blairism , where they largely ignore 13 million people largely sympathetic to the old labour party socialism , taking their votes for granted , while chasing the votes of a million or so tory voters in southern english marginals .
Back then , the left had no where to go , now , its a major challenge for starmer to gain these 13 million voters and take tories daft enough to vote for his lies. What worked once for blair in a bygone era wont work today in my opinion.
New labour , starmers labour arent a party i recognise as what used to constitute labour. They despise the working class , and have literally no time for them. If clowns like anne dodds and rachel reeve are The bright future in new labour for england , or the uk if it remains together short term , then god help all of us.
Indeed. It is because they took working class voters for granted for so long whilst utterly ignoring many of their most pressing concerns re housing, pay, and piss poor work contracts, with low paying employers allowed to get away with using cheap migrant labour to drive down pay, that they slowly but surely lost much of the working class vote. Their main gambit now is to call us stupid for not voting for them anyway on the grounds that this will mean the Tories getting in. They fail utterly to acknowledge that our reason for abandoning them is down to them abandoning us. And we have figured out that constantly voting for them as the lesser evil only encourages them to offer no meaningful change and continue to court the Tory vote exclusively. If they want our votes they need to start addressing our concerns, as the 2017 manifesto tried to do. as i said on this forum the other day steve , its a part of the reason why uk politics is so broken now. The old counterbalance between left and right in the old two party stitch up is long gone....we now have two tory parties vying for the so called middle ground (lmfao) and trying to portray this democratic outrage as the norm.
I think pr and a complete overhaul of the uk democracy is the last thing you have left to try .of course neither of the so called big two want democratic change , something starmer especially is mocked relentlessly over from what i see on social media especially.
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Post by Steve on Jan 1, 2023 14:48:23 GMT
So quickly resolved it got worse and worse by year? Strange idea of 'quickly resolved'. House repossessions in 2006, were below 1997 when NL entered office. Peak house repossessions 2009 (just one year on its own) well below the Tory period 1991 to 1995, and still falling 2010 to 2012. Cable's understandable political opposition to NL, he was a political opponent, was only given any credibility because of the international financial meltdown. But house repossessions on 125% mortgages have a big impact on bank stability , those on 80% mortgages don't. And that 2006 repossessions were higher than 2005 which was higher than 2004 wasn't because the underlying economy was stable was it. And remember the household debt that fueled that idiot boom (and was secured mostly on those houses) ran out of steam same time - and before the wider world crash. This was a crash all of the UK's doing - and led by Brown and King while Blair was looking elsewhere.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2023 15:38:29 GMT
Compared to the moderates in the party Corbyn was MORE EXTREME than the moderates. corbyn was the moderate and the blairites the extreme. Again the abuse of language. Saying that someone is more extreme than you because they disagree with you is tantamount to calling everyone you disagree with an extremist. And your self-description of Blairites as moderates does not hold true either when there is nothing particularly moderate about many of their policies and actions. Compared to that, we who believed in the 2017 manifesto are the genuinely moderate ones. You use words like "extremist" and "moderate" as mantras straight out of the Blairite dictionary without actually apparently understanding their true meaning in Oxford English. |
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Post by Steve on Jan 1, 2023 18:50:32 GMT
Compared to the moderates in the party Corbyn was MORE EXTREME than the moderates. corbyn was the moderate and the blairites the extreme. Only to the very extreme hard left or right. No rational view of UK politics considers centre ground policies to be extreme. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2023 19:10:32 GMT
corbyn was the moderate and the blairites the extreme. Only to the very extreme hard left or right. No rational view of UK politics considers centre ground policies to be extreme. The centre is not where it was in 1997. It is much more where Labour's 2017 manifesto is. And no rational view of UK politics would view unprovoked aggression against a sovereign nation, detention without trial, and the continuation of already demonstrably disastrous Tory housing policies as anything other than the extreme position to take. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 1, 2023 19:53:00 GMT
Compared to the moderates in the party Corbyn was MORE EXTREME than the moderates. srb seems to proves my point because it seems that the moderates leading the Party is too much for him to handle and he is no longer a part of the party. It seems he has spit his dummy out of the pram, that's appears to be his reaction to moderate politics. And for me that exposes his need for a more extreme approach. I don't recognise you as moderates at all and have said why umpteen times now. It is a self description I do not acknowledge. There is nothing moderate about your conduct and political positions around here. Many will see that you sound more extreme than I do. Even though I am in the center-LEFT of politics LOL, you can be funny without even trying. I do recognise you as being amongst the more extreme element of the Labour party. Those looking for a more extreme approach don't even know what moderation in politics is, even though it is obvious to anyone of average intelligence. You must live amongst a bunch seriously ill informed and overly biased individuals. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 1, 2023 20:02:03 GMT
Only to the very extreme hard left or right. No rational view of UK politics considers centre ground policies to be extreme. The centre is not where it was in 1997. It is much more where Labour's 2017 manifesto is. And no rational view of UK politics would view unprovoked aggression against a sovereign nation, detention without trial, and the continuation of already demonstrably disastrous Tory housing policies as anything other than the extreme position to take. 1, Why don't you get yourself informed on the invasion of Iraq instead of posting your opinion as if it was fact. Doing what you do is just dishonest. 2. Norther Ireland needed some cooling down, but IIRC it was a disaster and didn't last long. 3. I understand why you are in your dire position in politics, you just live by your opinions and post your opinions as if they were facts. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 1, 2023 20:05:31 GMT
Compared to the moderates in the party Corbyn was MORE EXTREME than the moderates. corbyn was the moderate and the blairites the extreme. LOL   |
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