|
|
Post by Steve on Dec 31, 2022 13:43:52 GMT
So quickly resolved it got worse and worse by year? Strange idea of 'quickly resolved'. Apart from the fact that it was part of the problem of the banking system breaking down (Banks gave mortgages thanks to Thatcher) it had fuck all to do with Cable's nonsense. It was all caused by the IFM. No meltdown then no serious problems. Your straw boat never stood a chance against reality. Your exaggerated nonsense about worse by year, well so too did the knock on problems of the IFM. A good idea would be for you to stfu until you drop your ingrained bias and engaged your mind objectively to the problem. Absolute nonsense. The wider meltdown was 2008 but our problems were growing from 2005 as the house repossessions show. And when you have house repossessions with 125% mortgages it's a big problem. Anyway feel free to show how us how time flows backwards and 2008 caused 2005. You could get a Nobel Prize if you could show that. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Dec 31, 2022 13:57:50 GMT
Enough of stupid immature unproven opinions, you can all shove them as far as you can get them. Many people across the uk feel the same about toy blair and new labour. Apart from the fact they havent been able to get elected once in the last 12 years at westminster , and fifteen at holyrood , with corbyn only being in charge a small part of that time , its clear what the voters think of them. Including the recent furore over blairs knighthood.
The only immature unproven opinons , along with historical revision is coming from you. I will of course be voting against labour as i have done every single election since 1997 when the next vote is cast .
They cannot be trusted with power , as we see at every level of governance from council level upwards.
You are the main offender of this, you have posted many posts that contain nothing more than your opinions. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Dec 31, 2022 13:59:30 GMT
Many people across the uk feel the same about toy blair and new labour. Apart from the fact they havent been able to get elected once in the last 12 years at westminster , and fifteen at holyrood , with corbyn only being in charge a small part of that time , its clear what the voters think of them. Including the recent furore over blairs knighthood.
The only immature unproven opinons , along with historical revision is coming from you. I will of course be voting against labour as i have done every single election since 1997 when the next vote is cast .
They cannot be trusted with power , as we see at every level of governance from council level upwards.
You are the main offender of this, you have posted many posts that contain nothing more than your opinions. where? I normally back up what i claim with links unlike you.... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2022 21:31:23 GMT
The arrogant insults again. Clem Attlee would turn in his grave if he heard you. Labour was a genuine democratic socialist party under his tenure. His government nationalised the energy and water companies, as well as the railways. Today you call such things an example of extremism. You are not fit to lick Attlee's boots. I will never match you for ill informed arrogance. I have already posted that this country needed a large dose of Socialism following WWII. The country got it but the obvious reality is that the country did not want to continue down that path. You are not fit to be in modern Labour politics because your history is to make way for Conservative governments, as already proven. Thus making it harder for working people and their families. You falsely (as already proven, Iraq for instance) attack the moderates in your own party. You and your mouthy lot are traitors within the party. I am not even in the party anymore. It is no longer something I want to be part of. And I don't view the proponents of tuition fees, detention without trial, the Iraq War and thatcherite housing policies as moderates at all. But I am used to your misuse of the English language. But I am wearying of this constant acrimony between us, in part generated by your determination to smear me as an extremist. Yet you talk of ill informed arrogance without any apparent sense of irony. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 1, 2023 11:21:41 GMT
I will never match you for ill informed arrogance. I have already posted that this country needed a large dose of Socialism following WWII. The country got it but the obvious reality is that the country did not want to continue down that path. You are not fit to be in modern Labour politics because your history is to make way for Conservative governments, as already proven. Thus making it harder for working people and their families. You falsely (as already proven, Iraq for instance) attack the moderates in your own party. You and your mouthy lot are traitors within the party. I am not even in the party anymore. It is no longer something I want to be part of. And I don't view the proponents of tuition fees, detention without trial, the Iraq War and thatcherite housing policies as moderates at all. But I am used to your misuse of the English language. But I am wearying of this constant acrimony between us, in part generated by your determination to smear me as an extremist. Yet you talk of ill informed arrogance without any apparent sense of irony. Extremists neither recognise nor understand moderation. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2023 11:54:23 GMT
I am not even in the party anymore. It is no longer something I want to be part of. And I don't view the proponents of tuition fees, detention without trial, the Iraq War and thatcherite housing policies as moderates at all. But I am used to your misuse of the English language. But I am wearying of this constant acrimony between us, in part generated by your determination to smear me as an extremist. Yet you talk of ill informed arrogance without any apparent sense of irony. Extremists neither recognise nor understand moderation. I guess that makes you an extremist then. You yourself are an "extremists under the bed" type and it is starting to look quite funny. The Tories are extremists. Thomas and the Scottish nationalists are extremists. Socialists are extremists. Both Corbyn and Thatcher were extremists. Everyone it seems is an extremist except the Blairites who are the only moderates as proven by such moderate policies as unprovoked military invasions, detention without trial and thatcherite housing policies. You are fooling very few people. I actually respect the Tories more than you. By and large they debate reasonably in many cases and do not seek to abuse the English language by mislabelling everyone who disagrees with them an extremist. We on the left have long since come to know that whilst the Tories oppose us and are ideological opponents, it is you pretend lefties who rabidly and irrationally hate us, seeing us as a greater evil than the Tories because you are politically much closer to them. The irony is you attempt to cheerlead people like Attlee, claiming him as one of your own and stating that in his day socialism which is somehow extremist today was necessary then. That's goal post shifting right there. One of the many reasons you hate us so much is that we are the true successors to Attlee whilst you have hijacked his party and shat all over everything he stood for. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 1, 2023 11:54:27 GMT
I will never match you for ill informed arrogance. I have already posted that this country needed a large dose of Socialism following WWII. The country got it but the obvious reality is that the country did not want to continue down that path. You are not fit to be in modern Labour politics because your history is to make way for Conservative governments, as already proven. Thus making it harder for working people and their families. You falsely (as already proven, Iraq for instance) attack the moderates in your own party. You and your mouthy lot are traitors within the party. But I am wearying of this constant acrimony between us, in part generated by your determination to smear me as an extremist. Yet you talk of ill informed arrogance without any apparent sense of irony. you and i have had our political disagreements and ups and downs , over many years steve , and im sure we will continue to do so. You are not , and never have been an extremist , and whatever our political differences , anyone claiming you are really is in cloud cuckoo land.
This is the nature of the blairite beast though.....anyone not part of the cult is instantly smeared as extreme .You saw it with corbyn , not someone i supported as you know , being tarred not by the tories , but by starmer and others blairites in the party as an extreme left wing zealot.
The new labour party as i keep telling you and im sure you know are nothing more than the party of the champagne socialists and middle class liberals of southern england in their leafy suburbs , dressing up their small c conservatism as "some middle ground" and everyone else outside it as extremists.
|
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 1, 2023 11:54:59 GMT
Thank you for proving my point, Even though it happened during the IFM it was a smaller housing bust than previous ones and was quite quickly resolved. It would likely have been resolved even quicker but for the IFM. So quickly resolved it got worse and worse by year? Strange idea of 'quickly resolved'. House repossessions in 2006, were below 1997 when NL entered office. Peak house repossessions 2009 (just one year on its own) well below the Tory period 1991 to 1995, and still falling 2010 to 2012. Cable's understandable political opposition to NL, he was a political opponent, was only given any credibility because of the international financial meltdown. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 1, 2023 11:57:54 GMT
So quickly resolved it got worse and worse by year? Strange idea of 'quickly resolved'. Cable's understandable political opposition to NL, he was a political opponent, was only given any credibility because of the international financial meltdown. well said. He got that credibility in part as he was one of the many warning new labour about their disasterous policies which would lead to a financial crash. He was right , as were so many others.
New labour cannot be trusted with the economy. Every man woman and child on these islands know it.
|
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 1, 2023 12:00:25 GMT
But I am wearying of this constant acrimony between us, in part generated by your determination to smear me as an extremist. Yet you talk of ill informed arrogance without any apparent sense of irony. you and i have had our political disagreements and ups and downs , over many years steve , and im sure we will continue to do so. You are not , and never have been an extremist , and whatever our political differences , anyone claiming you are really is in cloud cuckoo land.
The extremism I refer to, as I have posted previously, is the fact that Corbyn was/is more extreme than the moderates in the Labour party. I have made the point more than once that I was not suggesting he was a far-left extremist. Context is important. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2023 12:06:02 GMT
But I am wearying of this constant acrimony between us, in part generated by your determination to smear me as an extremist. Yet you talk of ill informed arrogance without any apparent sense of irony. you and i have had our political disagreements and ups and downs , over many years steve , and im sure we will continue to do so. You are not , and never have been an extremist , and whatever our political differences , anyone claiming you are really is in cloud cuckoo land.
This is the nature of the blairite beast though.....anyone not part of the cult is instantly smeared as extreme .You saw it with corbyn , not someone i supported as you know , being tarred not by the tories , but by starmer and others blairites in the party as an extreme left wing zealot.
The new labour party as i keep telling you and im sure you know are nothing more than the party os the champagne socialsits and middle class liberals of southern england in their leafy suburbs , dressing up their small c conservatism as "some middle ground" and everyone else outside it as extremists.
Well said. Labour today is in the hands of a coterie of Establishmentarians, just the other buttock of the same arse. And I was in the party for several years which gave me the experience of seeing them up close at the local level. Plotters and schemers, largely unprincipled in the sense that no principle is too dear to be traded for power, comfortable with Tory opponents but hating the left. They were prepared to destroy the Labour party if thats what it took to stop the left. They saw a Tory government as a lesser evil than a genuinely left wing one. They are now the party of affluent middle class liberals heavily invested in the thatcherite consensus. They have ceased almost entirely to be a working class party, and indeed many of them write off the working class as racists, bigots, xenophobes, and thickoes. Far from representing the working class they hold us in contempt |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 1, 2023 12:06:38 GMT
you and i have had our political disagreements and ups and downs , over many years steve , and im sure we will continue to do so. You are not , and never have been an extremist , and whatever our political differences , anyone claiming you are really is in cloud cuckoo land.
The extremism I refer to, as I have posted previously, is the fact that Corbyn was/is more extreme than the moderates in the Labour party. I have made the point more than once that I was not suggesting he was a far-left extremist. Context is important. No he wasnt.
I am no fan of corbyn , i thought him a pretty piss poor politician , but the idea he was an extremist is laughable. Did corbyn take us to war on lies in iraq? Was corbyn planning a bonfire of civil liberties in the uk like his new labour counterparts when in power? Did corbyn cause a financial crash in the uk , or load the uk up to the eyeballs with pfi debt ? The list goes on.
Corbyn was what i describe as old labour. The only extreme element in the party in his time in charge was the "accusations" of anti semitism from what i saw , and potentially the behaviour of some in momentum.
Compare that to the antics in new labours time , and i think if we are going to label anyone extreme , it would have to be the blairites and new labour .
Talking about srb steve , steve is a left wing socialist. He isnt extreme , and i would say he is far mor honest and less extreme in his views than you.
I dont support either of your politics , but if i had to choose between you with a gun to my head , i would be choosing steves political view over yours any day.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2023 12:08:36 GMT
you and i have had our political disagreements and ups and downs , over many years steve , and im sure we will continue to do so. You are not , and never have been an extremist , and whatever our political differences , anyone claiming you are really is in cloud cuckoo land.
The extremism I refer to, as I have posted previously, is the fact that Corbyn was/is more extreme than the moderates in the Labour party. I have made the point more than once that I was not suggesting he was a far-left extremist. Context is important. So like everyone else, he was only an extremist compared to you, eh? You have frequently labelled him and others as extremists without qualification so trying to water that down when it suits is unconvincing. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 1, 2023 12:10:57 GMT
Cable's understandable political opposition to NL, he was a political opponent, was only given any credibility because of the international financial meltdown. well said. He got that credibility in part as he was one of the many warning new labour about their disasterous policies which would lead to a financial crash. He was right , as were so many others.
New labour cannot be trusted with the economy. Every man woman and child on these islands know it.
Cable was wrongly given credibility because of the IFM, he did not and could not have forecast the 2008 IFM in 2002. "disasterous policies which would lead to a financial crash" ---- is an opinion, and one that you cannot prove. Unfortunately there are many like yourself who have formed an OPINION that your posted comment above is true, it only PROVES how easy it is to misguide those who want to be misguided. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 1, 2023 12:12:28 GMT
you and i have had our political disagreements and ups and downs , over many years steve , and im sure we will continue to do so. You are not , and never have been an extremist , and whatever our political differences , anyone claiming you are really is in cloud cuckoo land.
This is the nature of the blairite beast though.....anyone not part of the cult is instantly smeared as extreme .You saw it with corbyn , not someone i supported as you know , being tarred not by the tories , but by starmer and others blairites in the party as an extreme left wing zealot.
The new labour party as i keep telling you and im sure you know are nothing more than the party os the champagne socialsits and middle class liberals of southern england in their leafy suburbs , dressing up their small c conservatism as "some middle ground" and everyone else outside it as extremists.
Well said. Labour today is in the hands of a coterie of Establishmentarians, just the other buttock of the same arse. And I was in the party for several years which gave me the experience of seeing them up close at the local level. Plotters and schemers, largely unprincipled in the sense that no principle is too dear to be traded for power, comfortable with Tory opponents but hating the left. They were prepared to destroy the Labour party if thats what it took to stop the left. They saw a Tory government as a lesser evil than a genuinely left wing one. They are now the party of affluent middle class liberals heavily invested in the thatcherite consensus. They have ceased almost entirely to be a working class party, and indeed many of them write off the working class as racists, bigots, xenophobes, and thickoes. Far from representing the working class they hold us in contempt We have discussed the fallacy of blairism , where they largely ignore 13 million people largely sympathetic to the old labour party socialism , taking their votes for granted , while chasing the votes of a million or so tory voters in southern english marginals .
Back then , the left had no where to go , now , its a major challenge for starmer to gain these 13 million voters and take tories daft enough to vote for his lies. What worked once for blair in a bygone era wont work today in my opinion.
New labour , starmers labour arent a party i recognise as what used to constitute labour. They despise the working class , and have literally no time for them. If clowns like anne dodds and rachel reeve are The bright future in new labour for england , or the uk if it remains together short term , then god help all of us.
|
|
