whos to blame for the winter of strikes

 we're back on topic

And what you said.  The government is saying it's external factors causing inflation and deciding their captive workers have to pay the price of reducing it so they can have lower interest rates that keep stock and house prices higher then they might be.

That said the railway unions need to wake up and realise fair market conditions would not give them that rise.  

Yes, greedy workers demanding a pay rise in line with inflation when that's not attainable.

I've a relative that works in an admin job in the NHS, do you know how much of a pay rise they'll get this year? (It won't be close to inflation), any idea how much less it will be if whiny nurses get there way? And i'll tell you now, they get paid alot less than a nurse.

I completely appreciate the work nurses do for the NHS, however when they're already earning well above many other workers in the NHS, i'm afraid that their greed for more money just makes them lose what goodwill they had.

How many of the private sector industries are demanding a 17-19% pay rise this year? How many employers do you think are going to be in a position to grant it?

Where do you suggest this money comes from? Education? Pensions? paycuts across other area's of the public sector? Defunding the police or fire services?

Here's a tidbit of news that might be a wake up call.

People have been living beyond their means for a very long time and 2-3 years of Covid and government handouts come at a price.....

There is a huge number of employees significantly worse off than nurses.

So where’s the money to come from?

Do we fund the police and fire services less?

Do you want to put less into pension funds?

Or do you want to raise everyone else’s taxes?

Or, do you have a magic bullet that everyone is missing?

You’re insulting your friend because if the government cedes to the huge demand by nurses, chances are that your friend in DWP will get less of a pay rise as a result.

You realise that there isn’t a magic money tree and the pot of cash is finite? If the government gives extra to one group, it does so at the expense of others.

So yes, when I’m very aware a large portion of public sector workers will get a below inflation pay rise, I find it audacious that other areas of the public sector feel they’re somehow more deserving than your friend in DWP.

If you are addressing me as you clearly are it would help if you quoted the post you are responding to so that I get a notification. I only saw this because I looked to see what was added to the thread by anyone else.

As for money, it is about political choices. They could find tens of billions to waste on a track and trace system that never worked and billions more on PPE that was not fit for purpose. It is not a question of how something cannot be afforded but how it can be paid for. I for one think all public sector workers should get a pay rise at the very least in line with the average private sector pay increase. Some of that would in any case be clawed back via taxation. The NHS itself is clearly suffering a recruitment and retention crisis because nurses are now chronically underpaid for the skills they have and the jobs they do. So nurses for once should get a pay deal much closer to inflation if we dont want the staffing crisis to get even worse. We just have to find the means to pay for it, even if it means that those of us who can afford to pay a little more in tax do so. There are things that can be done, like ending non dom status for one thing. We need to find the money to pay for it. We could also help nurses a lot - and all other NHS hospital workers too - by mandating free hospital parking for them and banning hospitals from charging their own staff to park at their own workplaces. They'd certainly be more amenable to a lower settlement if they were guaranteed free parking at work.

That is an odd argument - just because the government wasted money at some time in the past that doesn't mean it has an unlimited budget now.


FWIW the spending during Covid was funded by borrowing - so are you really trying to suggest that the country should place itself further in debt to fund generous pay increases for the Public Sector?.

Not exactly no. I am suggesting we find the means to pay for it without additional borrowing, that we cost it somehow, whether that be by closing loopholes elsewhere, raising targeted taxes, or cutting expenditure and waste elsewhere. NI contributions for example are theoretically supposed to pay for both pensions and healthcare though in reality are just another tax. We should end the exemption from NI for older people. The poorer ones will not be affected because they still wouldn't pay it. But the better off ones would, though no more of a percentage than the working population already pay. And since older people are the age group that relies most heavily on the NHS, that is fair enough. And that is just one possibility.

Incidentally, I am arguing against my own near future self interest here because I think it is right. In less than ten years I will be drawing a state pension but plan to continue working part time if I am able to healthwise. If pensioners are no longer exempted from NI, I myself will be one of the ones paying it. But fair enough if by doing so I am helping to ensure that the NHS is properly funded and that nurses and other health workers are properly paid.

Also, I don't think that pay rises in line with inflation are particularly generous, merely a not unreasonable expectation. Anything less is a de facto pay cut which is rather unreasonable