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Post by Bentley on Jan 1, 2023 12:15:06 GMT
1 think the patient can choose not to be resuscitated. 2 So only patients who wish to commit suicide would be subject to the two pills ? Are you sure that they would not be pressured to take them? 4 Maybe . I am talking about an arbitrary point where the doctors ( or someone else )decide that life has no quality to the patient. Are you taking about assisted suicide by a healthy person ? I thought you was talking about a new approach to ending life ..not what you have known in the past . Happy new year . Hope it’s a good one . 1, Yes I think you're right. 2, Yes. And that is the current argument, but I think it would be possible to put safety measures in. The flip side of that coin is those who have had enough of their lives cannot end them, they do not even have the ability to throw themselves off a bridge supposing they were brave enough to do so. I agree its a tricky one that. 4, I am in away. I'm looking at a new approach to what end of life means, one in which it is not left to the body to decide when you die but yourself. If you construct the mechanism for assisted suicide as a norm then you know that it will spread into realms that you didn’t intend it to, don’t you? |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 1, 2023 12:21:40 GMT
I know lets go on strike.. The NHS waiting lists hit HARDEST by Covid: Queues for gynaecology, skin and stomach problems have almost DOUBLED since pandemic began, data shows The NHS backlog hit 7.2million in October — highest figure since records began But MailOnline analysis of show the rise is disproportionately spread Number queuing for gynaecology and dermatology treatment almost doubled www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11508743/The-NHS-waiting-lists-hit-HARDEST-Covid.html |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 1, 2023 12:34:29 GMT
I have just been reading a report how the NHS have run out of oxygen. Now I wonder who orders that? It wouldn’t be the leftie ring pieces who make up the management would it? Surly not.
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Post by Steve on Jan 1, 2023 12:35:24 GMT
Takes two sides to make an industrial dispute, why only blame one side? The 19% demand is dumb but the government deciding to further cut nurses real value pay letting them bear the brunt of their fight against inflation was far far dumber. For them to lie about supposed independent pay body ( that isn't) and the cost of settling the nurses demand firmly puts the government in the wrong. |
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Post by Steve on Jan 1, 2023 12:40:55 GMT
For those that want to imagine the NHS just needs to cut managers and all will be well here's an awkward read (from 2015 but still true today) You want something managed, you need managers. fullfact.org/health/fact-or-fiction-nhs-has-too-many-managers/ 'The idea that the NHS employs an unjustifiably huge number of full-time managers is just wrong.
The savings from reducing their ranks would be small, and likely self-defeating if we went too fast. NHS trusts need people to analyse and make decisions. If they don't have those people, they will hire some in as management consultants.
At the same time, it is certainly true that management and administration should be looked at critically, and there are opportunities to make savings in areas such as finance, other back office functions and clerical work caused by a reliance on paper records. There is also undoubtedly scope to improve administration. We must remember, though, that some of it is linked to those perennial political favourites, targets and competition.' |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 1, 2023 12:46:50 GMT
I have just been reading a report how the NHS have run out of oxygen. Now I wonder who orders that? It wouldn’t be the leftie ring pieces who make up the management would it? Surly not. It's a well known fact the NHS is run by the loony left, same as the Home Office and the Civil Service, every loony left run establishment is a utter mess, because they are far too busy with their Woke agendas, and bending over backwards for the diversity brigade.
The whole swamp needs clearing out, starting with scrapping all these appeasing woke policies, we are running the NHS not a multicultural diversity place of worship, it's a place of employment, they need to get a grip.
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Post by Bentley on Jan 1, 2023 12:47:11 GMT
I suspect that behemoths like the NHS become top heavy as a matter of course.
The problem is that the NHS is the political golden calf .
Politicians have weaponised and politicised it since it was created.
I can’t see any government having the balls or the skills to fix it in my lifetime .
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Post by Steve on Jan 1, 2023 13:20:10 GMT
It's a well known fact the NHS is run by the loony left . . . Actually it's a known fact that that's just an opinion, your unevidenced opinion. Those that know anything about the NHS know in England it's actually run by NHS England appointed by a right wing government, the Department of Health (headed by same right wing Tory politicians) and delivered by private businesses (Hospital trusts and GP providers) So hardly 'the loony left' then |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 1, 2023 13:21:28 GMT
1, Yes I think you're right. 2, Yes. And that is the current argument, but I think it would be possible to put safety measures in. The flip side of that coin is those who have had enough of their lives cannot end them, they do not even have the ability to throw themselves off a bridge supposing they were brave enough to do so. I agree its a tricky one that. 4, I am in away. I'm looking at a new approach to what end of life means, one in which it is not left to the body to decide when you die but yourself. If you construct the mechanism for assisted suicide as a norm then you know that it will spread into realms that you didn’t intend it to, don’t you? Yes I accept that, its a matter of balance between freedom and safety just like so many things. If you make cars that will do 80mph you know some people will die. Some will deliberately speed, some will even deliberately kill. So we must put things in place to limit the downside as much as possible while still leaving people the right to end their lives. Not sure if you were also referring to doctors?? |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 1, 2023 13:22:57 GMT
Takes two sides to make an industrial dispute, why only blame one side? The 19% demand is dumb but the government deciding to further cut nurses real value pay letting them bear the brunt of their fight against inflation was far far dumber. For them to lie about supposed independent pay body ( that isn't) and the cost of settling the nurses demand firmly puts the government in the wrong. Note in this country it doesn’t. The unions call the shots and leftie ring pieces who have never done a hard days work in their lives jump to attention. This is not about wages and all to do with the rabid lefts attempt at shagging the country over yet again. |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 1, 2023 13:24:16 GMT
I have just been reading a report how the NHS have run out of oxygen. Now I wonder who orders that? It wouldn’t be the leftie ring pieces who make up the management would it? Surly not. It's a well known fact the NHS is run by the loony left, same as the Home Office and the Civil Service, every loony left run establishment is a utter mess, because they are far too busy with their Woke agendas, and bending over backwards for the diversity brigade.
The whole swamp needs clearing out, starting with scrapping all these appeasing woke policies, we are running the NHS not a multicultural diversity place of worship, it's a place of employment, they need to get a grip.
But not by the leftie brigade who support their antics. |
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Post by Steve on Jan 1, 2023 13:25:21 GMT
Takes two sides to make an industrial dispute, why only blame one side? The 19% demand is dumb but the government deciding to further cut nurses real value pay letting them bear the brunt of their fight against inflation was far far dumber. For them to lie about supposed independent pay body ( that isn't) and the cost of settling the nurses demand firmly puts the government in the wrong. Note in this country it doesn’t. The unions call the shots and leftie ring pieces who have never done a hard days work in their lives jump to attention. This is not about wages and all to do with the rabid lefts attempt at shagging the country over yet again. So you say if the government had let the pay review body award what it thinks was 'the fair going rate' instead of being told it had to limit them to a far lower pay pot there would still be an industrial dispute. Best of luck convincing anyone of that. |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 1, 2023 13:26:43 GMT
It's a well known fact the NHS is run by the loony left . . . Actually it's a known fact that that's just an opinion, your unevidenced opinion. Those that know anything about the NHS know in England it's actually run by NHS England appointed by a right wing government, the Department of Health (headed by same right wing Tory politicians) and delivered by private businesses (Hospital trusts and GP providers) So hardly 'the loony left' then The government put managers in charge who know how to fuck up anything decent. And haven’t got a bloody clue on how to run an organisation let alone manage it. |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 1, 2023 13:29:08 GMT
It's a well known fact the NHS is run by the loony left . . . Those that know anything about the NHS know in England it's actually run by NHS England appointed by a right wing government, the Department of Health (headed by same right wing Tory politicians) and delivered by private businesses (Hospital trusts and GP providers) So hardly 'the loony left' then So what makes your addled misguided opinion any better than anyone else’s? It wouldn’t be a childish lickle red triangle would it? |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 1, 2023 13:29:41 GMT
If you construct the mechanism for assisted suicide as a norm then you know that it will spread into realms that you didn’t intend it to, don’t you? Yes I accept that, its a matter of balance between freedom and safety just like so many things. If you make cars that will do 80mph you know some people will die. Some will deliberately speed, some will even deliberately kill. So we must put things in place to limit the downside as much as possible while still leaving people the right to end their lives. Not sure if you were also referring to doctors?? Assisted suicide as an NHS service will become the norm…mission creep. |
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