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Post by Ripley on Jan 16, 2023 23:28:29 GMT
The bill in question passed by a more than two thirds majority of MSPs (86-39). Section 35 of the Scotland Act grants the Secretary of State limited veto power to make an order prohibiting the Presiding Officer from submitting a Bill for Royal Assent. Two conditions apply to staging such an intervention: (1)If a Bill contains provisions— (a)which the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds to believe would be incompatible with any international obligations or the interests of defence or national security, or (b) which make modifications of the law as it applies to reserved matters and which the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds to believe would have an adverse effect on the operation of the law as it applies to reserved matters. Such an intervention is subject to judicial review. Equalities Law is a reserved matter |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 16, 2023 23:30:31 GMT
Isn't gender reassignment one of the characteristics protected under the Equality Act 2010? If the Scottish bill is consistent with the Equality Act 2010, how can Westminster justify stepping on Holyrood's toes in this instance?
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Post by Vinny on Jan 16, 2023 23:55:59 GMT
The SNP are breaking reserved rules by allowing self identifying pretend women (and their penises) into women only shelters, changing rooms, safe areas, and also creating a dangerous situation of people having life altering irreversible surgery without sufficient consultation. A move that could cause far more suicides. Trans regret is a real problem, not considered by the insane SNP.
Block their policy and if they continue with this insanity, impose direct rule and abolish the Scottish Parliament.
Devolution was an unequal unfair botched process anyway. PR would have been the better option.
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Post by Ripley on Jan 17, 2023 1:27:22 GMT
The Secretary of State may only exercise a veto if:
He has "reasonable grounds to believe the legislation would be incompatible with any international obligations or the interests of defence or national security."
Or, if the Secretary of State has "reasonable grounds to believe" that the legislation "would have an adverse effect on the operation of the law as it applies to reserved matters."
If there is any relevant reserved matter, it would be the Equality Act 2010. But gender reassignment is one of the characteristics protected by the Equality Act 2010, and Scotland’s GRA, which also protects gender reassignment, is not inconsistent with that, so I don’t see how the ‘adverse effect’ argument could apply.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 17, 2023 14:47:04 GMT
It would create inequality in the UK creating a different set of trans rights in Scotland to the rest of Britain and Northern Ireland.
It would also endanger women in sheltered accommodation.
Womens rights are more important than the rights of a bloke to put on a frock and self identify.
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Post by Ripley on Jan 17, 2023 15:35:04 GMT
Keeping laws aligned isn't the goal. There are many points of dissimilarity between Scottish and English law. Divorce law is different. Inheritance law is different. The Scots allow voting at sixteen, unlike anywhere else in the UK, etc.,. Scotland has always had a different legal system.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 16:39:39 GMT
Isn't gender reassignment one of the characteristics protected under the Equality Act 2010? If the Scottish bill is consistent with the Equality Act 2010, how can Westminster justify stepping on Holyrood's toes in this instance? It might well be, but our own Gender Recognition Act is utter illogical nonsense and I have signed a petition to have that repealed. Fat chance... |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 17, 2023 18:17:23 GMT
Keeping laws aligned isn't the goal. There are many points of dissimilarity between Scottish and English law. Divorce law is different. Inheritance law is different. The Scots allow voting at sixteen, unlike anywhere else in the UK, etc.,. Scotland has always had a different legal system. So do you think it would (could?) be workable where a character is legally a woman in Scotland but legally a man in England? |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 17, 2023 20:24:04 GMT
It’s complicated, but there has to be a way of recognizing and respecting one another’s laws.
Currently, sixteen year olds can marry in England with parental consent. In Scotland, they can marry without parental consent.
At the end of next month, the Marriage and Civil Partnership Bill is going to change the minimum age of marriage to 18 in England and Wales, an effect of which will be that marriages of under-18s, while legal in Scotland, will not be recognized in England.
Imagine if divorce was recognized in one part of the UK but not another…
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Post by research0it on Jan 17, 2023 20:52:38 GMT
The SNP are breaking reserved rules by allowing self identifying pretend women (and their penises) into women only shelters, changing rooms, safe areas, and also creating a dangerous situation of people having life altering irreversible surgery without sufficient consultation. A move that could cause far more suicides. Trans regret is a real problem, not considered by the insane SNP. Block their policy and if they continue with this insanity, impose direct rule and abolish the Scottish Parliament. Devolution was an unequal unfair botched process anyway. PR would have been the better option. Hi vinny You do realise that to obtain a GRC in the UK, you do not require surgery. So penises can make their way into female only spaces right now. Across the UK. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 17, 2023 22:20:20 GMT
It’s complicated, but there has to be a way of recognizing and respecting one another’s laws. Currently, sixteen year olds can marry in England with parental consent. In Scotland, they can marry without parental consent. At the end of next month, the Marriage and Civil Partnership Bill is going to change the minimum age of marriage to 18 in England and Wales, an effect of which will be that marriages of under-18s, while legal in Scotland, will not be recognized in England. Imagine if divorce was recognized in one part of the UK but not another… So what gender do you put in your passport? - your UK gender or your Scottish gender?, bearing in mind that you dont have your address in your passport. |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 17, 2023 22:55:46 GMT
Adverse effects of different GRC regimes across the UK: The Bill does not purport to require that a Scottish GRC issued under its terms would have any legal effect other than in Scots law; it could not, within legislative competence, have done so. It is highly problematic both in principle and practically for a citizen of the UK to have a different gender, and legal sex (including for the purposes of the 2010 Act), depending upon where they happen to be within the UK, and which system of law applies to them. It is practically and legally undesirable for all, including in particular the individual holder of the GRC, that a person will have one legal sex in Scotland and a different one in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.www.gov.uk/government/publications/statement-of-reasons-related-to-the-use-of-section-35-of-the-scotland-act-1998/html-version#part-1-the-effect-of-the-billHere, the government is making the case against laws that would view a citizen's status differently depending on their geographic location at any given time. Odd, then, that next month the same government intends to put citizens in that very position themselves, via the Marriage and Civil Partnership Bill, which will change the minimum age of marriage to 18 in England and Wales, effectively invalidating in those regions the legal Scottish marriages of under-18s. Shouldn't the same principle apply? It almost appears as though Westminster would prefer a single system of law to apply to all UK citizens. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 17, 2023 22:56:26 GMT
It’s complicated, but there has to be a way of recognizing and respecting one another’s laws. Currently, sixteen year olds can marry in England with parental consent. In Scotland, they can marry without parental consent. At the end of next month, the Marriage and Civil Partnership Bill is going to change the minimum age of marriage to 18 in England and Wales, an effect of which will be that marriages of under-18s, while legal in Scotland, will not be recognized in England. Imagine if divorce was recognized in one part of the UK but not another… Imagine a situation where consenting individuals above the legal age of consent could engage in sex but then find the state made it illegal for a child conceived from that act to be born in wedlock…. Oh wait… |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 17, 2023 23:35:09 GMT
It's entirely foreseeable that the Marriage and Civil Partnership bill will view the legal children of young marriages as illegitimate because their parents' legal Scottish marriage will not be recognized in England. The question is, why would the government knowingly put people in that position whilst at the same time fighting Scotland's Gender Recognition bill on the same grounds? It's baffling.
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Post by thomas on Jan 18, 2023 8:42:05 GMT
It’s complicated, but there has to be a way of recognizing and respecting one another’s laws. Currently, sixteen year olds can marry in England with parental consent. In Scotland, they can marry without parental consent. At the end of next month, the Marriage and Civil Partnership Bill is going to change the minimum age of marriage to 18 in England and Wales, an effect of which will be that marriages of under-18s, while legal in Scotland, will not be recognized in England. Imagine if divorce was recognized in one part of the UK but not another… So what gender do you put in your passport? - your UK gender or your Scottish gender?, bearing in mind that you dont have your address in your passport. Whats adress got to do with it pacifico.?
Surely the important issue is birth certificate? Scottish and english/welsh birth certificates(and northern irish ) are all different as constituent nations issue birth certificates , not the uk state. If someone legally changes their gender , this is then changed on their birth certificate , which will then transfer onto their passport presumably.
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