|
|
Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 10:36:10 GMT
You really are into lying aren’t you ? What I asked was roughly ‘ how will you feel when you find out that the English don’t care a fuck when Scotland leaves the union ‘ the question was in the context that idiots like you don’t just want to leave the union but want the English to want Scotland to stay. As I said before , the rest of the UK will jog along quite happily if and when the Scot’s gain independence. You obviously fucking thick to understand a simple concept . What I didn’t say was that the English dont give a fuck about the Scots ..you idiot. On a scale of one to ten. Why are you going of on a tangents. AGAIN. On a scale of one to ten. I do not give a fuck what you think. Or any silly little Englander. Which you clearly are. You pick the number As you appointed yourself the spokesman for the English. I pointed out on your lying shit some 270 Westminster wankers, all but six Englishmen did give a fuck. As does Sunak. That's your theory shot down in flames. And the reason they do give a fuck. and know it. Is the second Scotland goes its merry way. Inter alia, bankrupt England will have to borrow a further £100 billion a year. More than it does now. Just to stand stand still. That's why they give a fuck. Now lets assume in your lying shit. That all Englishmen do want the Scots to leave the Union. I am 100% with them. Now speaking of idiots. As you do not give a fuck about the Scots. What are you doing on here. . How many times do you need asking. And no matey you did not say anything. You simply rant. And you still have not told me what your problem with the GRR bill is. You do not have a clue do you What the fuck are you on about ? 2 |
|
|
|
Post by research0it on Jan 20, 2023 10:47:59 GMT
Hi happyjack That is a point, but if you don't mind me saying so - and no one ever seems to agree with me on this - that's an analysis based on both sides regarding the tying in of independence with a referendum. One side is obsessed with getting it, the other with stopping it. Both sides should be trying to win hearts and minds and stop making their only tactic to stop or get a referendum. She would certainly accept, for example, the right to have a referendum every 10 years or so, but that doesn't make her anti democratic, it's just her distorted view because she thinks that referendums are some sort of key. I'm tolerably certain, however, that if she won such a right she would accept the losing result every time and plan for the next one. And taking my own example , I voted no in 2014, and it was a close run thing. The deciding issue for me was that I didn't want to take the risk of leaving the EU. Now look what happened. My passport is up for renewal next year and I'll be sick to the stomach when I lose the pink one and get a navy blue one. It's only symbolic but it reflects a deep loss for me. There is a kind of a thing in me that says that it would be democratic for the powers that be to have a formal way of asking me which union I prefer. That is being denied to me and that's not democratic even though right now, I'm not sure what answer I would give. Hi research0it, No, my analysis is not based upon tying in of independence with a referendum. I am simply saying that on the one occasion where Sturgeon clearly lost a plebiscite in Scotland, or lost the Scottish element of a UK or EU plebiscite, either as leader or deputy leader of the SNP (and that goes back almost 20 years now) she has not honoured the result. That just happened to be in the Indy referendum of 2014, by far the most important of all those plebiscites and therefore the one which, for societal healing and national well-being, most demanded that the losing side accepted and honoured the result. As I said, it is easy to accept democratic outcomes when you are on the winning side, but it is how we react when we lose that demonstrates our democratic credentials. She showed no respect for the democratic outcome on that occasion so, based upon the evidence rather than the rhetoric, it is fair to say that she is only a democrat when she wins. Hi happyjack The only way that I can interpret what you say here is that the campaign to obtain another referendum means a refusal to accept the outcome of the first one. I don't see it like that. Refusal to accept would mean going independent, despite the result. Or another way. Do you see anything undemocratic about an independence supporting party continuing to campaign for independence, despite losing a vote (I use the word vote deliberately)? Or would you see anything wrong with the union supporting side campaigning to overturn that result, if it had gone the other way? In my case I see nothing wrong with either. I even remember saying during the 2014 campaign that if the losers get above 40% , it won't settle it. The difficulties arise from how both sides have gone about those campaigns. Campaigning for independence has meant campaigning for a referendum. Not campaigning to win people over. Campaigning for the union has meant campaigning to stop a referendum. Not campaigning to win people over In that respect both sides are wrong. Where's the arguments to win the likes of me over? Nowhere. |
|
|
|
Post by jaydee on Jan 20, 2023 10:53:02 GMT
On a scale of one to ten. Why are you going of on a tangents. AGAIN. On a scale of one to ten. I do not give a fuck what you think. Or any silly little Englander. Which you clearly are. You pick the number As you appointed yourself the spokesman for the English. I pointed out on your lying shit some 270 Westminster wankers, all but six Englishmen did give a fuck. As does Sunak. That's your theory shot down in flames. And the reason they do give a fuck. and know it. Is the second Scotland goes its merry way. Inter alia, bankrupt England will have to borrow a further £100 billion a year. More than it does now. Just to stand stand still. That's why they give a fuck. Now lets assume in your lying shit. That all Englishmen do want the Scots to leave the Union. I am 100% with them. Now speaking of idiots. As you do not give a fuck about the Scots. What are you doing on here. . How many times do you need asking. And no matey you did not say anything. You simply rant. And you still have not told me what your problem with the GRR bill is. You do not have a clue do you What the fuck are you on about ? 2 I have already told you. More to the point. How do you not understand English. On a scale of one to ten. Why are you going of on a tangents. AGAIN. On a scale of one to ten. I do not give a fuck what you think. Or any silly little Englander. Which you clearly are. You pick the number As you appointed yourself the spokesman for the English. I pointed out on your lying shit some 270 Westminster wankers, all but six Englishmen did give a fuck. As does Sunak. That's your theory shot down in flames. And the reason they do give a fuck. and know it. Is the second Scotland goes its merry way. Inter alia, bankrupt England will have to borrow a further £100 billion a year. More than it does now. Just to stand stand still. That's why they give a fuck. Now lets assume in your lying shit. That all Englishmen do want the Scots to leave the Union. I am 100% with them. Now speaking of idiots. As you do not give a fuck about the Scots. What are you doing on here. . How many times do you need asking. And no matey you did not say anything. You simply rant. And you still have not told me what your problem with the GRR bill is. You do not have a clue do you. More to the point. What are you on about ? There you go two answer in one post. I am still waiting on one from you. Now is that just not nice of me. And you missed out idiot and clown. Why are you wrecking Scottish threads. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 10:57:35 GMT
What the fuck are you on about ? 2 I have already told you. More to the point. How do you not understand English. On a scale of one to ten. Why are you going of on a tangents. AGAIN. On a scale of one to ten. I do not give a fuck what you think. Or any silly little Englander. Which you clearly are. You pick the number As you appointed yourself the spokesman for the English. I pointed out on your lying shit some 270 Westminster wankers, all but six Englishmen did give a fuck. As does Sunak. That's your theory shot down in flames. And the reason they do give a fuck. and know it. Is the second Scotland goes its merry way. Inter alia, bankrupt England will have to borrow a further £100 billion a year. More than it does now. Just to stand stand still. That's why they give a fuck. Now lets assume in your lying shit. That all Englishmen do want the Scots to leave the Union. I am 100% with them. Now speaking of idiots. As you do not give a fuck about the Scots. What are you doing on here. . How many times do you need asking. And no matey you did not say anything. You simply rant. And you still have not told me what your problem with the GRR bill is. You do not have a clue do you. More to the point. What are you on about ? There you go two answer in one post. I am still waiting on one from you. Now is that just not nice of me. And you missed out idiot and clown More bullshit and lies ..and idiocy. Where in your fevered little head did you work out that a I claimed all ‘ Englishmen’ ( sic) want the Scots to leave the union? You are not very bright , are you? |
|
|
|
Post by happyjack on Jan 20, 2023 11:04:31 GMT
So you are falling back on the same old playground style that you tend to do when you are stumped. You know exactly where these words come from but as you can’t address them in an Indy supporting way you deflect instead. Just to be clear, and despite what you might want the answer to be, our UK parliament, through its organs of government, decides what the content of UK passports should be. Recognising the reality of this situation doesn’t undermine your Indy fanatic credentials ( if that is why you resist conceding the blatantly obvious) but it would give you a bit more credibilty. i have not once hinted or said the scottish parliament sets the uk passport. Your failure to back up your latest lies by being unable to quote me speaks volumes as ever.
Dismissed happy , and sent to the back of the class for bad behaviour.
Of course you have and I don’t need to quote you (although I could if I wanted to) for that to be true. Just follow your words back through this thread and you will see that our particular strand picks up from Pacifico asking what gender goes into a passport. Your response to that was that what it says on the birth certificate is what is important, I responded by saying that it is the will of the UK Parliament that matters, and you, in turn, responded to that by saying that it is surely the will of the Scottish Parliament that matters, or words very much to that effect.
Now, do stop your schoolboy level antics when you get stumped for a grown up answer and try to behave like an adult. You gave me a little lecture on another thread about how, amongst other things, you behave with dignity and/or humility, and that you readily acknowledge when you are wrong etc etc. You need to revisit that post, look yourself in the mirror, acknowledge the yawning chasm between your self-image and your behaviour, and then do something about it. |
|
|
|
Post by om15 on Jan 20, 2023 11:05:58 GMT
That is the whole point, this cobbled together ill thought out Westminster bait Scotch law could affect those of us in England who wish to lead a normal life. Which is why the PM binned it, and why the High Court will bin it.
You need to ease up on the Buckie and think about your posts, they don't make sense.
|
|
|
|
Post by research0it on Jan 20, 2023 11:09:00 GMT
That is the whole point, this cobbled together ill thought out Westminster bait Scotch law could affect those of us in England who wish to lead a normal life. Which is why the PM binned it, and why the High Court will bin it. You need to ease up on the Buckie and think about your posts, they don't make sense. Hi Om15 In desperation, I'll ask you. What does the Scottish act do that the 2004 uk act do that makes it possible to affect you further? |
|
|
|
Post by jaydee on Jan 20, 2023 11:14:31 GMT
I have already told you. More to the point. How do you not understand English. On a scale of one to ten. Why are you going of on a tangents. AGAIN. On a scale of one to ten. I do not give a fuck what you think. Or any silly little Englander. Which you clearly are. You pick the number As you appointed yourself the spokesman for the English. I pointed out on your lying shit some 270 Westminster wankers, all but six Englishmen did give a fuck. As does Sunak. That's your theory shot down in flames. And the reason they do give a fuck. and know it. Is the second Scotland goes its merry way. Inter alia, bankrupt England will have to borrow a further £100 billion a year. More than it does now. Just to stand stand still. That's why they give a fuck. Now lets assume in your lying shit. That all Englishmen do want the Scots to leave the Union. I am 100% with them. Now speaking of idiots. As you do not give a fuck about the Scots. What are you doing on here. . How many times do you need asking. And no matey you did not say anything. You simply rant. And you still have not told me what your problem with the GRR bill is. You do not have a clue do you. More to the point. What are you on about ? There you go two answer in one post. I am still waiting on one from you. Now is that just not nice of me. And you missed out idiot and clown More bullshit and lies ..and idiocy. Where in your fevered little head did you work out that a I claimed all ‘ Englishmen’ ( sic) want the Scots to leave the union? You are not very bright , are you? Let me repeat what you said several posts back as you go of lying again. What I asked was roughly ‘ how will you feel when you find out that the English don’t care a fuck when Scotland leaves the union ‘That is what you said. And no matey. on another thread you tried tyo wreck. You did not ask roughly. You stated the English do not give a fuck about the Scots. And I am not trawling back to find it for you to dismiss it with the wave of a hand. As you duck dive and weave alerting the pish you do post. Now how about you telling me if the English do not give a fuck about the Scots. As you said several post back. What are you doing on here wrecking Scottish threads with your nonsense. And tell me what exactly is your problem with the GRR bill |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 11:18:45 GMT
More bullshit and lies ..and idiocy. Where in your fevered little head did you work out that a I claimed all ‘ Englishmen’ ( sic) want the Scots to leave the union? You are not very bright , are you? Let me repeat what you said several posts back as you go of lying again. What I asked was roughly ‘ how will you feel when you find out that the English don’t care a fuck when Scotland leaves the union ‘That is what you said. And no matey. on another thread you tried tyo wreck. You did not ask roughly. You stated the English do not give a fuck about the Scots. And I am not trawling back to find it for you to dismiss it with the wave of a hand. As you duck dive and weave alerting the pish you do post. Now how about you telling me if the English do not give a fuck about the Scots. As you said several post back. What are you doing on here wrecking Scottish threads with your nonsense. And tell me what exactly is your problem with the GRR bill Nope. That was just the product of the chip on your shoulder affecting your brain cell. One can not be bothered if the Scots leave the union and at the same time be cordial with the very same Scots. Your views are twisted by your petty character. You tend to see yourself in people that you don’t like. I suggest that the root cause of this condition has stemmed from childhood . Were you a disappointment to your mother ? |
|
|
|
Post by om15 on Jan 20, 2023 11:19:55 GMT
The following describes the situation more succinctly than I can,
Michael Foran is a Senior Fellow at Policy Exchange and Lecturer in Public Law at the University of Glasgow.
Sturgeon has deliberately operated outside her authority in order to have a row with Westminster, her thick supporters can't see that (refer to Jaydees posts for evidence of that), 75% of Scots don't support it and it is obvious that she is doing all this for political reasons, she is disgusting.
|
|
|
|
Post by jaydee on Jan 20, 2023 11:40:35 GMT
That is the whole point, this cobbled together ill thought out Westminster bait Scotch law could affect those of us in England who wish to lead a normal life. Which is why the PM binned it, and why the High Court will bin it. You need to ease up on the Buckie and think about your posts, they don't make sense. Oh dear. How else could I put it. Mr stupid at his really best. This cobbled ill thought out act has been going through the Scottish parliament for five years. Every word of it has been scrutinized tern times over. Now having spectacularly failed to answerf what exactly is your problem with the law. Citing absolute havering utter garbage, could you explain to me how a law in Scotland affect's you. In the shite you did post. So stupid. it was unbelievable I know for a fact England and indeed Scotland have many laws covering your bullshit. That bullshiot you read in a unionist rag.In ehe case of Scotland not only under statute. But under common law. Common law in Scotland cam carry a life sentence. You still have not told me how in England the GRR law there has stopped men dressed as woman and sexualy assautling them That is what you said. Whatever fanny you now try and put on it. So could you explain to me why the FM wants to be a man. That is what you said. Then can you tell me. What exactly is your problem with the GRR bill. Then tell me what has Buckie to do with it. You will note I have highlighted the bits that require a answer on the drivel you posted. It seems silly Englishmen have a habit of waffling. Which they consider is a answerf. |
|
|
|
Post by om15 on Jan 20, 2023 11:42:06 GMT
Mr Speaker, I have just won a ten pound note.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jan 20, 2023 11:47:18 GMT
I would have thought it obvious - access to protected spaces. trans folk already have access. ? Ye s- and look at the problems that has caused. making it easier for any Tom Dick or Harry to declare themselves a woman so as to gain to access protected spaces is not an improvement. |
|
|
|
Post by jaydee on Jan 20, 2023 11:56:21 GMT
Let me repeat what you said several posts back as you go of lying again. What I asked was roughly ‘ how will you feel when you find out that the English don’t care a fuck when Scotland leaves the union ‘That is what you said. And no matey. on another thread you tried tyo wreck. You did not ask roughly. You stated the English do not give a fuck about the Scots. And I am not trawling back to find it for you to dismiss it with the wave of a hand. As you duck dive and weave alerting the pish you do post. Now how about you telling me if the English do not give a fuck about the Scots. As you said several post back. What are you doing on here wrecking Scottish threads with your nonsense. And tell me what exactly is your problem with the GRR bill Nope. That was just the product of the chip on your shoulder affecting your brain cell. One can not be bothered if the Scots leave the union and at the same time be cordial with the very same Scots. Your views are twisted by your petty character. You tend to see yourself in people that you don’t like. I suggest that the root cause of this condition has stemmed from childhood . Were you a disappointment to your mother ? Let me repeat what you said. What I asked was roughly ‘ how will you feel when you find out that the English don’t care a fuck when Scotland leaves the union. As you now lie through your teeth denying what you said. And hefre is where you said.it. See link below. So how about you telling me what you meant. As once more you duck dive and weave in stupidity. And matey guess what. You have just said it again. One can not be bothered if the Scots leave the union and at the same time be cordial with the very same Scots. Who the hell does one think you are. Jings at the same time being cordial. FFS Matey. You are nothing but another self deluded silly little Englander. That is in your brain. You cannot help yourself. So for someone who has ranted the English could not give a fuck about the Scots. What are you doing on here. And what is your problem with the GRR bill. ukpoliticsdebate.boards.net/post/46244/thread |
|
|
|
Post by happyjack on Jan 20, 2023 11:57:02 GMT
Hi research0it, No, my analysis is not based upon tying in of independence with a referendum. I am simply saying that on the one occasion where Sturgeon clearly lost a plebiscite in Scotland, or lost the Scottish element of a UK or EU plebiscite, either as leader or deputy leader of the SNP (and that goes back almost 20 years now) she has not honoured the result. That just happened to be in the Indy referendum of 2014, by far the most important of all those plebiscites and therefore the one which, for societal healing and national well-being, most demanded that the losing side accepted and honoured the result. As I said, it is easy to accept democratic outcomes when you are on the winning side, but it is how we react when we lose that demonstrates our democratic credentials. She showed no respect for the democratic outcome on that occasion so, based upon the evidence rather than the rhetoric, it is fair to say that she is only a democrat when she wins. Hi happyjack The only way that I can interpret what you say here is that the campaign to obtain another referendum means a refusal to accept the outcome of the first one. I don't see it like that. Refusal to accept would mean going independent, despite the result. Or another way. Do you see anything undemocratic about an independence supporting party continuing to campaign for independence, despite losing a vote (I use the word vote deliberately)? Or would you see anything wrong with the union supporting side campaigning to overturn that result, if it had gone the other way? In my case I see nothing wrong with either. I even remember saying during the 2014 campaign that if the losers get above 40% , it won't settle it. The difficulties arise from how both sides have gone about those campaigns. Campaigning for independence has meant campaigning for a referendum. Not campaigning to win people over. Campaigning for the union has meant campaigning to stop a referendum. Not campaigning to win people over In that respect both sides are wrong. Where's the arguments to win the likes of me over? Nowhere. I am not trying to win you over, research0it, and neither is anyone else on here, as far as I can see. In fact, I am still waiting to be won over to the Indy supporting side myself and have even explained how simple it should be for the Indy supporters amongst us to achieve that, but so far they have produced nothing and, I increasingly suspect, never will. Indeed, thus far, their behaviour towards me has simply served to entrench me somewhat in the No territory. Most of what you ask has been discussed already between us on the old site, when we both operated under different names, so you already know my views on that stuff. I won’t therefore go over it again, if that’s ok, but will just focus on the areas that you raise that I don’t remember us addressing back then. I don’t think that an independence supporting party should give up on its aspiration, but I do think that it is incumbent upon the losers in such a divisive and societally damaging contest as the 2014 indyref to lay low for a respectful period and allow time for the deep wounds to heal and for stability to return to the nation and its people. I also believe that where that independence supporting party is also the party of government, then that duty is much more pressing and that that party should honour not only the result of the referendum, but also the rhetoric that its leaders employed throughout the referendum campaign. I am thinking here particularly of the once in a generation/ lifetime strapline that both Sturgeon and Salmond employed, obviously. Moving on to the SNP ScotGov then, irrespective of party affiliations, it is surely an over-arching duty of any First Minister and Deputy First Minister in particular, to govern for all of the people and to strive to maintain harmony and stability throughout Scottish society. This burden and responsibility was never greater than in the aftermath of the Indyref but, far from rise to the occasion, they, and their government, spectacularly failed to even try. That is not simply ignoring the democratic will of the Scottish people but a clear dereliction of duty in my view. |
|
