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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2022 22:41:53 GMT
jonsky >> "You do know that labour closed more A&E units and cottage hospitals than the Tories ever did I presume? All labour acheived was to increase the managment numbers and bring in this diversity rubbish. Labour have never rescued the NHS and that is for sure. And as for starmer becoming the next PM watch the NHS go even further down the pan. Look how blairs PFIs have tied the NHS into these contracts which cost the UK tax payers billions and our grand kids grand kids will still be paying that off, Even when fully repaid, the public won’t own the hospitals.. Just the interest alone on these PFIs would be enough to build and equip 10 new hospitals a year.
Read and weep.
1997 Tony Blair (New Labour) dump Labour’s tradition of support for public service and opt for privatisation and deregulation, funding 100 new NHS hospitals with PFIs. In total, approximately £11 billion is borrowed, with repayments reaching approximately £88 billion. Even when fully repaid, the public won’t own the hospitals. PFIs enable a covert bed closure program to shrink NHS capacity, and a future land grab. As the costs of paying off debts rise, NHS trusts will be forced to sell assets. Letwin becomes a Conservative MP.
2000 New Labour’s NHS Plan introduces private provision of medical services into the NHS for the first time to ‘modernise’ and ‘reform’ its practices. Routine planned surgery, diagnostic tests and procedures are contracted out to private sector treatment centres at greater cost than the same care on the NHS.
2003 New Labour allows NHS trusts to apply to become Foundation Trusts (FTs), arms-length business entities independent of government control. This further embeds commercial priorities and leadership into the system.
2004 New Labour brings in Payment by Results. Providers are paid a fixed price per unit of completed health care. This helps the private sector to cherry-pick the easiest, most profitable treatments.
2009 Gordon Brown (New Labour) brings in the Unsustainable Provider Regime, the framework for using the PFI hospital debt burden to close and sell off publicly-owned NHS land and property.
You can spin this however way you wish, but the simple basic facts are that the NHS improved considerably during the Premiership of Blair and Brown.
One simple statistic - New Labour reduced waiting lists by Five Hundred Thousand - yet since 2011 waiting lists have grown again.
Or how about some more facts - The last Labour government increased the number of Doctors by 32,000, and nurses by 85,000.
Today its a very sad story, with shortages of doctors and nurses so bad, that some services in some areas are non-existent, a massive 10% of the entire work force posts are empty and unfilled.
PFI - an idea introduced and first used in this country under a Conservative government, and YES I accept its a controversial way of providing infastructure and badly needed public estate, but as Gordon Brown once said "if the alternative was NOT getting a new hospital, what would you do ?".
In 2010 the public satisafaction rate of the NHS had never been higher - but now look at it - you can never trust the Tories with the NHS.
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Post by jonksy on Oct 15, 2022 0:15:13 GMT
jonsky >> "You do know that labour closed more A&E units and cottage hospitals than the Tories ever did I presume? All labour acheived was to increase the managment numbers and bring in this diversity rubbish. Labour have never rescued the NHS and that is for sure. And as for starmer becoming the next PM watch the NHS go even further down the pan. Look how blairs PFIs have tied the NHS into these contracts which cost the UK tax payers billions and our grand kids grand kids will still be paying that off, Even when fully repaid, the public won’t own the hospitals.. Just the interest alone on these PFIs would be enough to build and equip 10 new hospitals a year. Read and weep. 1997 Tony Blair (New Labour) dump Labour’s tradition of support for public service and opt for privatisation and deregulation, funding 100 new NHS hospitals with PFIs. In total, approximately £11 billion is borrowed, with repayments reaching approximately £88 billion. Even when fully repaid, the public won’t own the hospitals. PFIs enable a covert bed closure program to shrink NHS capacity, and a future land grab. As the costs of paying off debts rise, NHS trusts will be forced to sell assets. Letwin becomes a Conservative MP. 2000 New Labour’s NHS Plan introduces private provision of medical services into the NHS for the first time to ‘modernise’ and ‘reform’ its practices. Routine planned surgery, diagnostic tests and procedures are contracted out to private sector treatment centres at greater cost than the same care on the NHS. 2003 New Labour allows NHS trusts to apply to become Foundation Trusts (FTs), arms-length business entities independent of government control. This further embeds commercial priorities and leadership into the system. 2004 New Labour brings in Payment by Results. Providers are paid a fixed price per unit of completed health care. This helps the private sector to cherry-pick the easiest, most profitable treatments. 2009 Gordon Brown (New Labour) brings in the Unsustainable Provider Regime, the framework for using the PFI hospital debt burden to close and sell off publicly-owned NHS land and property.You can spin this however way you wish, but the simple basic facts are that the NHS improved considerably during the Premiership of Blair and Brown. One simple statistic - New Labour reduced waiting lists by Five Hundred Thousand - yet since 2011 waiting lists have grown again. Or how about some more facts - The last Labour government increased the number of Doctors by 32,000, and nurses by 85,000. Today its a very sad story, with shortages of doctors and nurses so bad, that some services in some areas are non-existent, a massive 10% of the entire work force posts are empty and unfilled. PFI - an idea introduced and first used in this country under a Conservative government, and YES I accept its a controversial way of providing infastructure and badly needed public estate, but as Gordon Brown once said "if the alternative was NOT getting a new hospital, what would you do ?". In 2010 the public satisafaction rate of the NHS had never been higher - but now look at it - you can never trust the Tories with the NHS. Sorry but it didnt improve under labour. Did labour reisnstate NHS dentists for starters that they stated they would in their manifesto how many of their walk in centres are there still open and are not just replaced by an NHS helpline which takes an age to get spoken too and then an age to get an answer? The NHS is just a wildfire and no goverment of any colour know how to tackle the blaze. Reducing the NHS to area management has done nothing but add fuel to that blaze.
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Post by patman post on Oct 18, 2022 13:11:39 GMT
And what have the left woke NHS managers ever done to clear this matter up which they have themselves created? Even after the lockdown was lifted and social distancing was stopped you still had to wear a mask and practice social distancing at GP's surgeries for months afterwards. You would have more chance of becoming the pope than you would to get to see your GP. This is down to the NHS themselves not the government. This was on its way years ago. Covid exacerbated the problems by exhausting staff to the point there's currently one person leaving for every new recruit, and the overall shortage is not being remedied.
The NHS is inefficiently managed, but it's not overstaffed with managers (it was) — but now it doesn't have enough good managers.
My connection with and knowledge of the NHS is through my Mum, who is a nurse nearing retirement age. She has been asked if she would consider delaying her retirement. Having seen her exhausted after working long days, often without time off, I can understand why people are becoming militant, or just leaving...
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Post by jonksy on Oct 18, 2022 13:18:47 GMT
And what have the left woke NHS managers ever done to clear this matter up which they have themselves created? Even after the lockdown was lifted and social distancing was stopped you still had to wear a mask and practice social distancing at GP's surgeries for months afterwards. You would have more chance of becoming the pope than you would to get to see your GP. This is down to the NHS themselves not the government. This was on its way years ago. Covid exacerbated the problems by exhausting staff to the point there's currently one person leaving for every new recruit, and the overall shortage is not being remedied.
The NHS is inefficiently managed, but it's not overstaffed with managers (it was) — but now it doesn't have enough good managers.
My connection with and knowledge of the NHS is through my Mum, who is a nurse nearing retirement age. She has been asked if she would consider delaying her retirement. Having seen her exhausted after working long days, often without time off, I can understand why people are becoming militant, or just leaving...
I afraid that is the case for every NHS hospital or trust. Both my partner and her daughter are nurses and they say it is just getting worse. But hese diversity ideas are wasting NHS recources and they spend more time on the vain wanting bigger boobs or children who want a gender change than they do the real cases.
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Post by see2 on Oct 18, 2022 13:24:48 GMT
And what have the left woke NHS managers ever done to clear this matter up which they have themselves created? Even after the lockdown was lifted and social distancing was stopped you still had to wear a mask and practice social distancing at GP's surgeries for months afterwards. You would have more chance of becoming the pope than you would to get to see your GP. This is down to the NHS themselves not the government. This was on its way years ago. Covid exacerbated the problems by exhausting staff to the point there's currently one person leaving for every new recruit, and the overall shortage is not being remedied.
The NHS is inefficiently managed, but it's not overstaffed with managers (it was) — but now it doesn't have enough good managers.
My connection with and knowledge of the NHS is through my Mum, who is a nurse nearing retirement age. She has been asked if she would consider delaying her retirement. Having seen her exhausted after working long days, often without time off, I can understand why people are becoming militant, or just leaving...
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Post by patman post on Oct 18, 2022 13:35:55 GMT
I afraid that is the case for every NHS hospital or trust. Both my partner and her daughter are nurses and they say it is just getting worse. But hese diversity ideas are wasting NHS recources and they spend more time on the vain wanting bigger boobs or children who want a gender change than they do the real cases. I live in London, and my mum is a nurse in London. From observation, the medical demands appear to have been initially for Covid, and then catch up with delayed treatment for other critical and serious conditions.
I am not aware that cosmetic surgery, gender reassignment, IVF, or other non-critical treatments have taken up beds and space in the NHS around here. What is noticeable is the lack of aftercare for the recovered sick, so they remain in hospital.
It's my guess that mental health and substance abuse that are the areas that are poorly catered for round north and east London...
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Post by see2 on Oct 18, 2022 13:36:28 GMT
You appear to forget the complete mess of the NHS that NL inherited in 1997. The shortage of doctors. The reduction in bed numbers. The huge increase in waiting lists for hospital appointments. 12month and longer waiting lists for non-urgent pain-relieving operations.
With many other pressing issues to be addressed as for instance high unemployment and a rise to 3million children (and their families) living in relative poverty. All of this following 18 years of Conservative mal administration.
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Post by patman post on Oct 18, 2022 14:01:45 GMT
Which you are you addressing?
Did NL do anything to resolve problems in the NHS after it came to power?
Did the coalition do much?
And did the Tories do enough?
IT's my opinion that the NHS is too large a problem for one administration to tackle in just five or ten years. It needs an independent body to undertake a root and branch study and reform, probably over 10 to 20 years...
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Post by Toreador on Oct 18, 2022 14:08:12 GMT
The whole system is a wreck. I was at the hospital just last week and some of the staff I saw should have been patients in the gastric band ward. Management is crap, some of the nursing is crap, even some of the surgeons and consultants fall short of a minimum standard. My main local hospital has been under special orders for many years and still is rated as needing improvement in just about every department.
To get to see a GP requires online form filling, something that was introduced as a result of COVID; looks like it's here to stay.
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Post by patman post on Oct 18, 2022 14:28:03 GMT
Seems to depend on area/region.
GP surgeries and hospitals seem overworked, but accessible round here.
Booking doctor appointments, by phone or online, for personal or phone consultation can be same day for urgent cases, next day for the rest. Repeat prescriptions are easy by phone and online…
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 18, 2022 14:47:50 GMT
A letter in todays Telegraph seems most apt..
SIR – After many years as a cardiac surgeon I finished my career as a hospital director in a medium-sized NHS Trust.
I found that the upper echelons of hospital management were staffed by well-meaning, hard-working, determined and talented people. However, I observed that we spent more time and energy on matters such as gender issues – alongside endlessly pandering to questionable regulatory bodies and local politicians for the sake of “optics” – than on cancer treatment or A&E waiting times.
Furthermore, there was an obsession with who would go where when the inevitable next management reshuffle took place.
Perhaps our focus should be more on quality of care, and the best use of our precious resources, rather than these other distractions.
Steven Griffin FRCS Barrow upon Humber, Lincolnshire
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Post by Toreador on Oct 18, 2022 16:43:53 GMT
A letter in todays Telegraph seems most apt.. SIR – After many years as a cardiac surgeon I finished my career as a hospital director in a medium-sized NHS Trust.
I found that the upper echelons of hospital management were staffed by well-meaning, hard-working, determined and talented people. However, I observed that we spent more time and energy on matters such as gender issues – alongside endlessly pandering to questionable regulatory bodies and local politicians for the sake of “optics” – than on cancer treatment or A&E waiting times.
Furthermore, there was an obsession with who would go where when the inevitable next management reshuffle took place.
Perhaps our focus should be more on quality of care, and the best use of our precious resources, rather than these other distractions.
Steven Griffin FRCS Barrow upon Humber, LincolnshireHe's bang on except he may be placing too much emphasis on the value of management. I live not far from Barrow-upon-Humber and know quite a few people who would almost certainly come within the NHS Trust he worked for, my view, having spoken to quite a few of them. North East Lincolnshire (Grimsby and surrounds) generally fares better than NHS North Lincolnshire (Scunthorpe and surrounds), the latter having a considerably lower age of death than most of England, so no great shakes either of them but Lincolnshire Health Trust is probably some way below Grimsby.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2022 16:55:50 GMT
jonsky >> "You do know that labour closed more A&E units and cottage hospitals than the Tories ever did I presume? All labour acheived was to increase the managment numbers and bring in this diversity rubbish. Labour have never rescued the NHS and that is for sure. And as for starmer becoming the next PM watch the NHS go even further down the pan. Look how blairs PFIs have tied the NHS into these contracts which cost the UK tax payers billions and our grand kids grand kids will still be paying that off, Even when fully repaid, the public won’t own the hospitals.. Just the interest alone on these PFIs would be enough to build and equip 10 new hospitals a year. Read and weep. 1997 Tony Blair (New Labour) dump Labour’s tradition of support for public service and opt for privatisation and deregulation, funding 100 new NHS hospitals with PFIs. In total, approximately £11 billion is borrowed, with repayments reaching approximately £88 billion. Even when fully repaid, the public won’t own the hospitals. PFIs enable a covert bed closure program to shrink NHS capacity, and a future land grab. As the costs of paying off debts rise, NHS trusts will be forced to sell assets. Letwin becomes a Conservative MP. 2000 New Labour’s NHS Plan introduces private provision of medical services into the NHS for the first time to ‘modernise’ and ‘reform’ its practices. Routine planned surgery, diagnostic tests and procedures are contracted out to private sector treatment centres at greater cost than the same care on the NHS. 2003 New Labour allows NHS trusts to apply to become Foundation Trusts (FTs), arms-length business entities independent of government control. This further embeds commercial priorities and leadership into the system. 2004 New Labour brings in Payment by Results. Providers are paid a fixed price per unit of completed health care. This helps the private sector to cherry-pick the easiest, most profitable treatments. 2009 Gordon Brown (New Labour) brings in the Unsustainable Provider Regime, the framework for using the PFI hospital debt burden to close and sell off publicly-owned NHS land and property.You can spin this however way you wish, but the simple basic facts are that the NHS improved considerably during the Premiership of Blair and Brown. One simple statistic - New Labour reduced waiting lists by Five Hundred Thousand - yet since 2011 waiting lists have grown again. Or how about some more facts - The last Labour government increased the number of Doctors by 32,000, and nurses by 85,000. Today its a very sad story, with shortages of doctors and nurses so bad, that some services in some areas are non-existent, a massive 10% of the entire work force posts are empty and unfilled. PFI - an idea introduced and first used in this country under a Conservative government, and YES I accept its a controversial way of providing infastructure and badly needed public estate, but as Gordon Brown once said "if the alternative was NOT getting a new hospital, what would you do ?". In 2010 the public satisafaction rate of the NHS had never been higher - but now look at it - you can never trust the Tories with the NHS. Sorry but it didnt improve under labour. Did labour reisnstate NHS dentists for starters that they stated they would in their manifesto how many of their walk in centres are there still open and are not just replaced by an NHS helpline which takes an age to get spoken too and then an age to get an answer? The NHS is just a wildfire and no goverment of any colour know how to tackle the blaze. Reducing the NHS to area management has done nothing but add fuel to that blaze. It didn't improve under Labour?
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Post by see2 on Oct 19, 2022 17:12:27 GMT
Patman. The post was meant for jonskie, the post above yours. I'm still struggling with the posting system
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Post by patman post on Oct 19, 2022 18:03:48 GMT
Patman. The post was meant for jonskie, the post above yours. I'm still struggling with the posting system You and me, both. It’ll dawn on us in time — hopefully. But I couldn’t even register my user name correctly…
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