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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 15, 2022 8:52:29 GMT
Staggering figures from the DWP. Fraud is £6.5 billion and £2.1 billion is error. So basically the figures are so large that no accounting company will sign of their returns. Our useless Civil Service again. Part of it, they say, is because of the pandemic where they "relaxed" checks on fraud, but fraud was already at record high levels before the pandemic.
The system is a shambles. Very few checks are made on claimants - except occasional phone calls. It's completely different from the HMRC whose income tax checks on the wealthy are extremely thorough (sometimes lasting many months). So it's no surprise that they're being robbed. It's probably a drastic underestimate anyway.
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Post by totheleft3 on Dec 15, 2022 9:16:05 GMT
I smell envy
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Post by Handyman on Dec 15, 2022 11:56:11 GMT
Staggering figures from the DWP. Fraud is £6.5 billion and £2.1 billion is error. So basically the figures are so large that no accounting company will sign of their returns. Our useless Civil Service again. Part of it, they say, is because of the pandemic where they "relaxed" checks on fraud, but fraud was already at record high levels before the pandemic. The system is a shambles. Very few checks are made on claimants - except occasional phone calls. It's completely different from the HMRC whose income tax checks on the wealthy are extremely thorough (sometimes lasting many months). So it's no surprise that they're being robbed. It's probably a drastic underestimate anyway. This is not new it has been happening for years money for those who really do need help has been lost by failures clerical errors in the DWP, even more is stolen by Criminal Gangs professional Fraudsters on a larger scale large amounts at a time. That is the problem with Fraud you only know that it is happening when you eventually find it, by then its too late the money has gone so have the people behind it, who will come back later with a different method and different identities |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 15, 2022 12:06:06 GMT
I suspect that for most people it’s quite difficult and troublesome to claim benefits but for the ones who know the loopholes benefit fraud is possible.
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Post by Steve on Dec 15, 2022 12:43:39 GMT
Staggering figures from the DWP. Fraud is £6.5 billion and £2.1 billion is error. So basically the figures are so large that no accounting company will sign of their returns. Our useless Civil Service again. Part of it, they say, is because of the pandemic where they "relaxed" checks on fraud, but fraud was already at record high levels before the pandemic. The system is a shambles. Very few checks are made on claimants - except occasional phone calls. It's completely different from the HMRC whose income tax checks on the wealthy are extremely thorough (sometimes lasting many months). So it's no surprise that they're being robbed. It's probably a drastic underestimate anyway. So your OP body text shows your thread title to be a false exaggeration A fraud in fact. This could be Guiness World Record irony. There will always be a level of fraud and error both ways but the fact is the errors that result when the DWP tries to reduce claimant fraud to zero mean their errors become even worse and innocent people die. Look at this recent case where luckily the guy didn't die but the DWP did its best to make sure he did with an idiot 'if in doubt don't pay a cent' attitude
'A man who said he lived in poverty for three years because he was not assessed properly for disability benefits has received a government apology. Haydn Valentine, 62, from Eastbourne, has emphysema and advanced liver disease, and is unable to work.
He said he couldn't afford his heating, was "freezing to death" and only ate one microwave meal a day. The Department for Work and Pensions has accepted it had failed to assess Mr Valentine's inability to work.
Mr Valentine said for him, the cost-of-living crisis started three years ago.
"I was freezing to death literally, absolutely freezing to death," he said.
Despite being physically unable to work, he was being forced to live on £270 a month because his health needs had not been assessed.'www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-63905638 |
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Post by andrewbrown on Dec 15, 2022 22:08:42 GMT
Staggering figures from the DWP. Fraud is £6.5 billion and £2.1 billion is error. So basically the figures are so large that no accounting company will sign of their returns. Our useless Civil Service again. Part of it, they say, is because of the pandemic where they "relaxed" checks on fraud, but fraud was already at record high levels before the pandemic. The system is a shambles. Very few checks are made on claimants - except occasional phone calls. It's completely different from the HMRC whose income tax checks on the wealthy are extremely thorough (sometimes lasting many months). So it's no surprise that they're being robbed. It's probably a drastic underestimate anyway. So the DWP pays out £216bn in benefits, of which £6bn is identified as fraud. Considering there were minimal checks on claims then, do you feel they have a bad record here? And of course not all fraud is written off, some will also be recovered. 😉 |
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Post by dodgydave on Dec 16, 2022 2:00:55 GMT
Quoting a figure without any context is pretty pointless.
3%-4% lost to fraud / error is actually pretty good, and you would probably spend more than you would save trying to get the figure closer to zero.
Uncollected taxes are double that rate at 6%-8%.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 16, 2022 7:40:42 GMT
Quoting a figure without any context is pretty pointless. 3%-4% lost to fraud / error is actually pretty good, and you would probably spend more than you would save trying to get the figure closer to zero. Uncollected taxes are double that rate at 6%-8%. The thing is that the rate of fraud is determined mainly by actual cases of fraud that the DWP find. And naturally that's dependent on how efficient their fraud detection department is. But they've been gradually "relaxing" fraud checking over the years - and especially during the pandemic. Considering the huge amount of money that is given away by the DWP (over £200 billion) it doesn't have to be a high rate of fraud to lose vast amounts of money. And the actual rate of fraud is certainly higher than the figure that is being quoted. The difference between the figures quoted by HMRC and those quoted by DWP is that HMRC use statistical methods to calculate the rate of fraud. In other words they do random checks to come up with a figure of total fraud and these checks are very intrusive. There's reason to believe that their figures are reasonably reliable. The DWP does some random checks but they're in the form of half hour telephone calls. Their powers to interrogate people seem to be less than HMRC has. |
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Post by totheleft3 on Dec 16, 2022 8:37:08 GMT
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Post by Steve on Dec 16, 2022 8:37:50 GMT
Quoting a figure without any context is pretty pointless. 3%-4% lost to fraud / error is actually pretty good, and you would probably spend more than you would save trying to get the figure closer to zero. Uncollected taxes are double that rate at 6%-8%. The thing is that the rate of fraud is determined mainly by actual cases of fraud that the DWP find. And naturally that's dependent on how efficient their fraud detection department is. But they've been gradually "relaxing" fraud checking over the years - and especially during the pandemic. Considering the huge amount of money that is given away by the DWP (over £200 billion) it doesn't have to be a high rate of fraud to lose vast amounts of money. And the actual rate of fraud is certainly higher than the figure that is being quoted. The difference between the figures quoted by HMRC and those quoted by DWP is that HMRC use statistical methods to calculate the rate of fraud. In other words they do random checks to come up with a figure of total fraud and these checks are very intrusive. There's reason to believe that their figures are reasonably reliable. The DWP does some random checks but they're in the form of half hour telephone calls. Their powers to interrogate people seem to be less than HMRC has. So benefits fraud is ~3% using a documented estimating process that will be reviewed both by Treasury and the NAO. Your thread title is wrong by 33% yet you wish us to believe your guesses on flaws ? I won't |
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Post by Morgan on Dec 16, 2022 8:41:35 GMT
Staggering figures from the DWP. Fraud is £6.5 billion and £2.1 billion is error. So basically the figures are so large that no accounting company will sign of their returns. Our useless Civil Service again. Part of it, they say, is because of the pandemic where they "relaxed" checks on fraud, but fraud was already at record high levels before the pandemic. The system is a shambles. Very few checks are made on claimants - except occasional phone calls. It's completely different from the HMRC whose income tax checks on the wealthy are extremely thorough (sometimes lasting many months). So it's no surprise that they're being robbed. It's probably a drastic underestimate anyway. Is it lonely where you are? I was wondering if you are the only man in the world who believes this load of bollocks. How the fuck anyone can believe one single word this government comes out with amazes me. Get a life. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 16, 2022 8:41:45 GMT
The thing is that the rate of fraud is determined mainly by actual cases of fraud that the DWP find. And naturally that's dependent on how efficient their fraud detection department is. But they've been gradually "relaxing" fraud checking over the years - and especially during the pandemic. Considering the huge amount of money that is given away by the DWP (over £200 billion) it doesn't have to be a high rate of fraud to lose vast amounts of money. And the actual rate of fraud is certainly higher than the figure that is being quoted. The difference between the figures quoted by HMRC and those quoted by DWP is that HMRC use statistical methods to calculate the rate of fraud. In other words they do random checks to come up with a figure of total fraud and these checks are very intrusive. There's reason to believe that their figures are reasonably reliable. The DWP does some random checks but they're in the form of half hour telephone calls. Their powers to interrogate people seem to be less than HMRC has. So benefits fraud is ~3% using a documented estimating process that will be reviewed both by Treasury and the NAO. Your thread title is wrong by 33% yet you wish us to believe your guesses on flaws ? I won't But then there is a whole growing industry around benefit fraud, probably not the best of growth industries. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 16, 2022 8:55:14 GMT
So benefits fraud is ~3% using a documented estimating process that will be reviewed both by Treasury and the NAO. Your thread title is wrong by 33% yet you wish us to believe your guesses on flaws ? I won't But then there is a whole growing industry around benefit fraud, probably not the best of growth industries. There always has been benefit fraud, typically cases like a family continuing to collect an Old Age Pension for someone that had died or people continuing to claim disability benefits after a condition has improved. It is dwarfed by tax evasion by fraud. |
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Post by Handyman on Dec 16, 2022 8:55:27 GMT
Staggering figures from the DWP. Fraud is £6.5 billion and £2.1 billion is error. So basically the figures are so large that no accounting company will sign of their returns. Our useless Civil Service again. Part of it, they say, is because of the pandemic where they "relaxed" checks on fraud, but fraud was already at record high levels before the pandemic. The system is a shambles. Very few checks are made on claimants - except occasional phone calls. It's completely different from the HMRC whose income tax checks on the wealthy are extremely thorough (sometimes lasting many months). So it's no surprise that they're being robbed. It's probably a drastic underestimate anyway. So the DWP pays out £216bn in benefits, of which £6bn is identified as fraud. Considering there were minimal checks on claims then, do you feel they have a bad record here? And of course not all fraud is written off, some will also be recovered. 😉 Some individuals have claimed benefits they are not entitled to by claiming as an example mobility problems, which is not as easy today as it was in the past as more stringent medical checks are now carried out, if the fraud is successful they are given more money. If their fraud is found out and if the DWP take them to Court and if the Judge as part of their punishment decides they have to pay back the money they stole it could take years to get that money back at a £5 a month, the cost of finding the fraud and taking them to Court cost the taxpayers a lot of money If a team of professional Fraudsters with multiple false identities find a way to obtain money they can and do milk the taxpayers out of hundreds of pounds a week finding the Fraud in the first place may take weeks or months even years. Identifying the true identity of the criminals may take even longer or not even possible they may never be found just disappeared moved on, all the DWP can do is stop the payments, even if they can identify one or two of them the money is already gone hidden, more than likely out of the UK. Even if they do find and convict them we the taxpayers will never get the stolen money back |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 16, 2022 8:59:11 GMT
But then there is a whole growing industry around benefit fraud, probably not the best of growth industries. There always has been benefit fraud, typically cases like a family continuing to collect an Old Age Pension for someone that had died or people continuing to claim disability benefits after a condition has improved. It is dwarfed by tax evasion by fraud. The point being it is a growth industry not one anybody has sorted out. |
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