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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 14, 2022 10:57:41 GMT
Remember this - ukpoliticsdebate.boards.net/thread/456/any-wonder-nhs-bankrupt Yesterday I received, yes you guessed it, a third letter from the NHS reminding me to get a fourth covid jab. Like the first two letters it contained three pages of A4, in 29 different languages. If memory serves I believe Dappy in an unrelated thread rubbished this by saying the NHS would not send out such a letter in 29 different languages. Well they have, three times so far. For the benefit of Dappy, the languages are: English Albanian Arabic Bengali Brazilian Portuguese Bulgarian Chinese Estonian Farsi French Greek Gujarati Hindi Latvian Lithuanian Pashto Polish Punjabi Romanian Romany Russian Somali Spanish Tagalog (Never heard of this one, from the Philippines apparently) Turkish Twi (Never heard of this one either, apparently it's a dialect from Ghana) Ukrainian Urdu Yiddish So, that's three reminders so far, from the NHS each containing three pages of A4 in 29 different languages. I have every confidence a fourth reminded will be in the post shortly. I wonder how many reminders the NHS have sent out, and more to the point, how much it costs. I am sorely tempted to call the NHS and point out that they have my phone number and a quick call would be a damned sight cheaper than three letters containing nine pages of A4 in 29 different bloody languages. Is it any wonder the NHS is bankrupt. |
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Post by dappy on Dec 14, 2022 11:11:39 GMT
Cost of sending a letter is trivial Red. Computer does all the work - so just the cost of a franked stamp - 51p and a coupe of pence for paper. Far cheaper than a phone call - which requires humans.
I do find these alleged letters odd - I haven't received any.
Not a big issue though surely.
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 14, 2022 11:29:35 GMT
dappy doesn't seem to believe you Red. Why not scan a page and post it here. It may not shut him up but you never know.
It would actually be interesting to find how much the NHS does spend on translations in a year, both getting them done and sending them out.
Do NHS hospitals have in-house interpreters too? How many I wonder, and at what cost.
I suspect that what Red has turned up is merely the tiny tip of a very, very large iceberg.
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Post by dappy on Dec 14, 2022 11:42:27 GMT
A quick flick through the internet suggests that the cost of translating an A4 letter would be about £25. Of course you only have to do that once - so if Red's letter is accurate the cost for 29 languages would have been around £750. If this letter is being sent out to all (but oddly missing me out) - lets say 5 million letters - so translation cost works out at 0.02 pence per letter.
Its a little hard to get excited.....
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Post by Handyman on Dec 14, 2022 11:48:44 GMT
dappy doesn't seem to believe you Red. Why not scan a page and post it here. It may not shut him up but you never know. It would actually be interesting to find how much the NHS does spend on translations in a year, both getting them done and sending them out. Do NHS hospitals have in-house interpreters too? How many I wonder, and at what cost. I suspect that what Red has turned up is merely the tiny tip of a very, very large iceberg. I believe the NHS uses Language Line via phone to translate , as do other similar organisations Police , Home Office etc |
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 14, 2022 11:55:05 GMT
I think you mean interpretation, not translation.
But a little light googling soon turned up the fact that the NHS spent £66 million on translation and interpretation services in 2020. Likely a bit more now.
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Post by Handyman on Dec 14, 2022 11:56:52 GMT
Yep here in London over 300 languages spoken
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Post by dappy on Dec 14, 2022 12:06:03 GMT
So £1 per NHS customer per annum or 0.04% of the NHS budget.
Is this thread likely to provide enough outrage to justify its existence, I wonder?
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 14, 2022 12:13:30 GMT
In seven years I have never received a single communication from the state, including the French equivalent of the NHS, in any language other than French. The French do not have an Equality Act you see, so public sector bodies are not under any statutory duty to treat foreigners 'equally'. Rather than blowing tens of millions on such hand-holding the French use their funds to hire more medical staff and enhance their facilities. Waiting lists are practically unknown here.
£66 million would support over a thousand new nurses.
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 14, 2022 12:21:05 GMT
Not the NHS, but this shows how the friendly and accommodating attitude towards foreigners has percolated into many corners of government. This particular piece was only available in Arabic, Bengali, Chinese, Gujarati, Punjabi, Somali, Urdu and Vietnamese (and Welsh) but still, it shows willing.  |
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Post by dappy on Dec 14, 2022 12:22:29 GMT
I can't pretend to know what happens in France but as you yourself say your figure of £66m (£1 per head of customers) covers the entire cost of language interpretation. So for example if someone turns up at a hospital not able to communicate in English - whether a resident here or a tourist - that would be the cost of finding out what his symptoms are and hence to treat him appropriately and cost effectively.
You seem to be determined (albeit rather unproductively) to squeeze this issue to attract the maximum possible outrage from seemingly unfertile ground.
What would you wish to be done on this situation?
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 14, 2022 12:28:14 GMT
I think the taxpayer should be spared the expense of providing interpretation services for foreigners who turn up at NHS facilities, and the NHS should also cease producing disseminating communications in languages other than English. It seems to work quite well in France where the state has determined that providing such facilities is not a priority.
As for 'outrage', that's not the appropriate term; bewilderment would be much closer.
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Post by dappy on Dec 14, 2022 12:38:37 GMT
What do they do in France if a person entitled to treatment turns up at a hospital unable to speak French and hence communicate his symptoms? Does he get turned away or do the doctors simply guess or spend far more resources on establishing the sick mans needs without him being able to tell them?
Honestly I am struggling to see the practical alternative? (always assuming of course you care about the real world and aren't simply seeking internet outrage).
What exactly would you want A+E at Swindon hospital to do if a man turns up at 7pm in obvious pain but unable to talk in English?
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 14, 2022 12:51:12 GMT
If you turn at a hospital in France they will make an effort to locate someone of the staff who speaks your language but the general understanding is that if you don't speak French you will bring along a member of your 'community' who does.
God knows most communities in England are of sufficient size these to be able to provide such facilities off their own bat.
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Post by dappy on Dec 14, 2022 12:59:46 GMT
I'm sure that happens here too - if only for convenience.
But you avoid the point.
If a man turns up in obvious pain in Swindon turns up alone but unable to communicate his symptoms (and lets add there is no staff member available to interpret), what would you do?
How would that be different if the same thing happened in Lille.
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