|
|
Post by Totheleft on Nov 18, 2024 3:03:35 GMT
i will be trying to explain what is traditional judism and what is zionism first i look at zionism Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a secular nationalist movement in the late 19th century, in reaction to newer waves of antisemitism and in response to the Haskalah, or Jewish Enlightenment.[7][8] During this period, as Jewish assimilation in Europe was progressing, some Jewish intellectuals framed assimilation as a humiliating negation of Jewish cultural distinctiveness. The development of Zionism and other Jewish nationalist movements grew out of these sentiments, which began to emerge even before the appearance of modern antisemitism as a major factor. In Zionism, the dangers and limitations associated with minority status in Europe meant that Jews had an existential need for a state where they would constitute a demographic majority. Assimilation progressed more slowly in Tsarist Russia where pogroms and official Russian policies led to the emigration of three million Jews between 1882 and 1914, only 1% of which went to Palestine. Those who went to Palestine were driven primarily by a sense of self-determination and Jewish identity, rather than in response to pogroms or economic insecurity. The arrival of Zionist settlers to Palestine during this period is widely seen as the start of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The Zionist claim to Palestine was based on the notion that the Jews' historical right to the land outweighed that of the Arabs. has can be seen zionism was formed out of a secular nationalist movement no religious connection . Judaism (Hebrew: יהדות) is the religion of Jewish people, and also the world's oldest Abrahamic monotheistic religion. It was created around the 6th century BCE in Canaan So what do you mean by 'traditional' Judaism Torah/ religious jews |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Nov 18, 2024 3:08:46 GMT
noun , plural eth·nic·i·ties. an ethnic group; a social group that shares a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like Yes we know you can cut and paste …. Just showing you the dictionary meaning of ethnicity. Seeing you dont seem to understand its meaning and that religion and culture are a big part of ethnicity. Now tell me how Zionist jews fit into the meaning of ethnicity |
|
|
|
Post by Rebirth on Nov 18, 2024 6:16:57 GMT
Dan is the new leader of the conservatives ethnically British Bentley are you ethnically British. What are you waffling about ? He'll be asking for your nose measurements next. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 18, 2024 10:05:11 GMT
Yes we know you can cut and paste …. Just showing you the dictionary meaning of ethnicity. Seeing you dont seem to understand its meaning and that religion and culture are a big part of ethnicity. Now tell me how Zionist jews fit into the meaning of ethnicity You seem to be too thick to realise that you do not need to share a religion to be part of an ethnic group, for instance there are atheists Jews and if there are atheist Jews it follows that there must be secular Jews. It also works the other way ,for instance there are different ethnic groups who are Christians. You blindly cut and paste and think that you have point because you take a word out of context. |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Nov 18, 2024 10:14:38 GMT
Just showing you the dictionary meaning of ethnicity. Seeing you dont seem to understand its meaning and that religion and culture are a big part of ethnicity. Now tell me how Zionist jews fit into the meaning of ethnicity You seem to be too thick to realise that you do not need to share a religion to be part of an ethnic group, for instance there are atheists Jews and if there are atheist Jews it follows that there must be secular Jews. It also works the other way ,for instance there are different ethnic groups who are Christians. You blindly cut and paste and think that you have point because you take a word out of context. Certainly not its the dictionary definition and you try and twist it to suite your need even cultural heritage is a requirement so is place of Birth none the original Zionism share they have no right to claim Israel is there land . Even many orthodox jews believe that. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 18, 2024 10:26:01 GMT
You seem to be too thick to realise that you do not need to share a religion to be part of an ethnic group, for instance there are atheists Jews and if there are atheist Jews it follows that there must be secular Jews. It also works the other way ,for instance there are different ethnic groups who are Christians. You blindly cut and paste and think that you have point because you take a word out of context. Certainly not its the dictionary definition and you try and twist it to suite your need even cultural heritage is a requirement so is place of Birth none the original Zionism share they have no right to claim Israel is there land . Even many orthodox jews believe that. The problem is that you are too thick to understand the nuances of definitions . For instance Slavs are considered an ethnic group but they speak many different languages. According to you they must all be different ethnic groups. If religion is the defining part of ethnicity then all Christians must be in the same ethnic group , right ? Ethnicity is somewhat subjective . Noam Chomsky is an athiest and has been called a self hating Jew by people who are intelligent enough to string a sentence together ie cleverer than you . If they thought that by being an athiest he was not a Jew ,they wouldn’t call him a Jew would they ? Your problem is that you are trying to make a semantic argument but are too thick to know what a semantic argument entails . |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Nov 18, 2024 10:36:54 GMT
Certainly not its the dictionary definition and you try and twist it to suite your need even cultural heritage is a requirement so is place of Birth none the original Zionism share they have no right to claim Israel is there land . Even many orthodox jews believe that. The problem is that you are too thick to understand the nuances of definitions . For instance Slavs are considered an ethnic group but they speak many different languages. According to you they must all be different ethnic groups. If religion is the defining part of ethnicity then all Christians must be in the same ethnic group , right ? Ethnicity is somewhat subjective . Noam Chomsky is an athiest and has been called a self hating Jew by people who are intelligent enough to string a sentence together ie cleverer than you . If they thought that by being an athiest he was not a Jew ,they wouldn’t call him a Jew would they ? Your problem is that you are trying to make a semantic argument but are too thick to know what a semantic argument entails . What on earth slaves speaking different languages got to do with it. You do know what actually qualify a jew |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 18, 2024 10:39:11 GMT
The problem is that you are too thick to understand the nuances of definitions . For instance Slavs are considered an ethnic group but they speak many different languages. According to you they must all be different ethnic groups. If religion is the defining part of ethnicity then all Christians must be in the same ethnic group , right ? Ethnicity is somewhat subjective . Noam Chomsky is an athiest and has been called a self hating Jew by people who are intelligent enough to string a sentence together ie cleverer than you . If they thought that by being an athiest he was not a Jew ,they wouldn’t call him a Jew would they ? Your problem is that you are trying to make a semantic argument but are too thick to know what a semantic argument entails . What on earth slaves speaking different languages got to do with it. You do know what actually qualify a jew Not slaves you doofus ….SLAVS. You are as thick as mince 🤡 |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Nov 18, 2024 10:40:17 GMT
So what do you mean by 'traditional' Judaism Torah/ religious jews Ok. I was kind of wondering which sect. I suppose all of 'orthodox' Jewry might consider themselves "traditional' and dissociate themselves from 'reform' Jewry. Reform Jewry care not when the Sabbath starts. Orthodox Jewry would disown yiu as a heretic for not recognising it starts at natural local sunset Then there's the chaps with the black coats weird hairdos etc the Hacidic Jews. Then there's a bunch who consider themselves direct descendents of Moses and Aaron and go round wearing that black and white check shawl thing, I had one of those working with me on the Inmarsat distress system, he never spoke to me again after I emulated a boat grounded on a Turkish mountain range pointed at Mecca Then there's the distinction between Sephardic Jews who consider themselvs Jewish by descendancy (the chap whose IBM 6400 minicomputer dad used to program the Acro Vulcan bombsight very quietly in a dungeon in Cardiff was one of those) and their arch enemy are the Ashkenazi who count among there number David Cameron who wishes you to believe his Jewish roots came as much as surprise to him as Boris Johnson felt when finding his great great grandad was Ottoman Empire leader Kemal Attaturk So I hope you see now why I'm struggling a bit with your seemingly simplistic split into two camps, not least because a lot of those I've mentioned would applaud the discovery the genocide had worked and the land from the river to the sea now flew only the star of David .... |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Nov 18, 2024 11:11:59 GMT
What on earth slaves speaking different languages got to do with it. You do know what actually qualify a jew Not slaves you doofus ….SLAVS. You are as thick as mince 🤡 This is in mind section keep the personal insults down |
|
|
|
Post by Rebirth on Nov 18, 2024 11:12:34 GMT
What on earth slaves speaking different languages got to do with it. You do know what actually qualify a jew Not slaves you doofus ….SLAVS. You are as thick as mince 🤡 It's just a bait thread. |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Nov 18, 2024 11:15:30 GMT
Not slaves you doofus ….SLAVS. You are as thick as mince 🤡 It's just a bait thread. No its a serious thread on a open board |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 18, 2024 11:18:13 GMT
Not slaves you doofus ….SLAVS. You are as thick as mince 🤡 This is in mind section keep the personal insults down You and you try and twist it to suite your need Seeing you dont seem to understand its meaning Bentley are you ethnically British. Add that to your abject obtuseness and ridiculous claims ,I dont think I am wrong to point this out . |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 18, 2024 11:22:18 GMT
No its a serious thread on a open board Then why are you posting nonsense ? You obviously have no idea what you are posting . If you don’t know the difference between Slavs and slaves then you can’t really expect to be taken seriously. You are actually trying to peddle a claim that if a Jew becomes an athiest then they immediately stop being a Jew . You think that you and this nonsense should be taken seriously because it’s in the mind zone |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Nov 18, 2024 12:46:26 GMT
No its a serious thread on a open board Then why are you posting nonsense ? You obviously have no idea what you are posting . If you don’t know the difference between Slavs and slaves then you can’t really expect to be taken seriously. You are actually trying to peddle a claim that if a Jew becomes an athiest then they immediately stop being a Jew . You think that you and this nonsense should be taken seriously because it’s in the mind zone I'm on my phone and it posted a predicting post simple has that of course if your a atheist you stop being a jew whats a religious order. It's like a atheist cant claim to be a Christian or muslim |
|
