|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 14, 2024 15:41:55 GMT
So Zionism is a claim that Palestine belongs to Jews, started by secular Jews ? Yes.
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 14, 2024 15:52:47 GMT
So Zionism is a claim that Palestine belongs to Jews, started by secular Jews ? You cant be secularist and a jew Judaism is a religion. Yes the present israel was set up by secular zionist Taken from your OP ”Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a secular nationalist movement” Are you saying that there are no secular Jews?…
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 14, 2024 15:58:21 GMT
So Zionism is a claim that Palestine belongs to Jews, started by secular Jews ? Yes. According to the author of the thread , you can’t be a Jew and be a secularist. Do you agree ?
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 14, 2024 16:05:03 GMT
No. Jewish is both a religion and an ethnicity. Jews, like Sikhs but unlike Christians or Muslims, are considered to be a 'distinct racial grouping' for the purpose of the Race Relations Acts and successor legislation.
On the other hand you don't have to be ethnically Jewish to be considered a Jew for religious purposes.
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 14, 2024 16:16:41 GMT
No. Jewish is both a religion and an ethnicity. Jews, like Sikhs but unlike Christians or Muslims, are considered to be a 'distinct racial grouping' for the purpose of the Race Relations Acts and successor legislation. On the other hand you don't have to be ethnically Jewish to be considered a Jew for religious purposes. Indeed . There are plenty of Atheist Jews . I think it would take some mental gymnastics for an Atheist Jew not to be a secularist. Tbh I always thought that Zionism went further than a claim to Palestine..in practice anyway .
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 14, 2024 16:28:21 GMT
No. Jewish is both a religion and an ethnicity. Jews, like Sikhs but unlike Christians or Muslims, are considered to be a 'distinct racial grouping' for the purpose of the Race Relations Acts and successor legislation. On the other hand you don't have to be ethnically Jewish to be considered a Jew for religious purposes. Indeed . There are plenty of Atheist Jews . I think it would take some mental gymnastics for an Atheist Jew not to be a secularist. Tbh I always thought that Zionism went further than a claim to Palestine..in practice anyway . en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 14, 2024 16:43:38 GMT
Indeed . There are plenty of Atheist Jews . I think it would take some mental gymnastics for an Atheist Jew not to be a secularist. Tbh I always thought that Zionism went further than a claim to Palestine..in practice anyway . en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_HerzlI was right then . There are several types and some go beyond just a claim to Palestine . Cheers .
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Nov 15, 2024 5:23:12 GMT
Dan is the new leader of the conservatives ethnically British
Bentley are you ethnically British.
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 15, 2024 9:55:59 GMT
Dan is the new leader of the conservatives ethnically British Bentley are you ethnically British. What are you waffling about ?
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Nov 15, 2024 13:01:18 GMT
Dan is the new leader of the conservatives ethnically British Bentley are you ethnically British. What are you waffling about ? Im Asking about your ethnicity Trying to get a clear picture About a person ethnicity
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 15, 2024 14:04:34 GMT
What are you waffling about ? Im Asking about your ethnicity Trying to get a clear picture About a person ethnicity My ethnicity has nothing to do with your claim that “You cant be secularist and a jew”.
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Nov 15, 2024 17:22:11 GMT
noun , plural eth·nic·i·ties. an ethnic group; a social group that shares a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 15, 2024 17:55:43 GMT
noun , plural eth·nic·i·ties. an ethnic group; a social group that shares a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like Yes we know you can cut and paste ….
|
|
|
Post by bancroft on Nov 15, 2024 19:36:11 GMT
There are stories about an European state the Khazars adopting Judaism around the 12th C to keep separate from Christianity and Islam. This survived until Genghis khan and his mob came through dispersing them to the north in Russia with many moving west towards Poland.
They spoke Yiddish.
More than a few got swept up in the idea of a Jewish state due to propaganda and moved to the Middle East where the state of Israel said that had to learn Hebrew.
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Nov 17, 2024 22:33:22 GMT
i will be trying to explain what is traditional judism and what is zionism first i look at zionism Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a secular nationalist movement in the late 19th century, in reaction to newer waves of antisemitism and in response to the Haskalah, or Jewish Enlightenment.[7][8] During this period, as Jewish assimilation in Europe was progressing, some Jewish intellectuals framed assimilation as a humiliating negation of Jewish cultural distinctiveness. The development of Zionism and other Jewish nationalist movements grew out of these sentiments, which began to emerge even before the appearance of modern antisemitism as a major factor. In Zionism, the dangers and limitations associated with minority status in Europe meant that Jews had an existential need for a state where they would constitute a demographic majority. Assimilation progressed more slowly in Tsarist Russia where pogroms and official Russian policies led to the emigration of three million Jews between 1882 and 1914, only 1% of which went to Palestine. Those who went to Palestine were driven primarily by a sense of self-determination and Jewish identity, rather than in response to pogroms or economic insecurity. The arrival of Zionist settlers to Palestine during this period is widely seen as the start of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The Zionist claim to Palestine was based on the notion that the Jews' historical right to the land outweighed that of the Arabs. has can be seen zionism was formed out of a secular nationalist movement no religious connection . Judaism (Hebrew: יהדות) is the religion of Jewish people, and also the world's oldest Abrahamic monotheistic religion. It was created around the 6th century BCE in Canaan So what do you mean by 'traditional' Judaism
|
|