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Post by see2 on Oct 27, 2024 10:41:10 GMT
IMO dictatorships are the new financial form of Conservatism taking us back a 100 years or more, i.e. The top 1% of Russia's wealthiest people held 47.7% of the country's wealth. Even higher than the old and failed Conservatives. All of this is too vague to mean much without unboxing those terms a bit. For instance 'Taking us back' might mean taking us back towards democracy if the current course is anti-democratic, which going by some recent establishment pronouncements about the dangers of freedom of speech and the US constitution, it might be well be. Those who claim to be 'taking us forward' might, in reality, be taking us back - which, going by some recent establishment pronouncements about the dangers of freedom of speech and the US constitution - they might be well be. Taking us back to a period when the rich were even richer compared to any wealth owned by the poor. |
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Post by see2 on Oct 27, 2024 10:51:32 GMT
You are entitled to your opinion. The basis of the EU is to raise the economic levels of its members. As, when or if, the EU gradually gets its act together, it will become economically stronger to the point that it will be necessary for it to be able to defend itself and to defend democracy with all its freedoms, freedoms that don't exist in dictatorship countries. I wonder sometimes if you truly believe what you write, given the facts clear to all
The 'basis' of the European union, far from raising any measurable metrics for anyone save it's freeloading parliamentarians and service staff, who enjoy special tax rates on their bloated salaries, is now, was when the original Lisbon Constitution was rejected by multiple voices, and was when the Iron and Steel Trades Confederation poured the foundations for the Treaty of Rome, to drag the front runners in the European Leader Board down to the level of the basket cases by forcing them to shower said basket cases with largesse. They have from day one cosseted the inefficient and the feckless wastrel. The butter and beef mountains, milk and wine lakes dumped on former African colonies to remove the possibility of their being sold to member state citizens for the real price they were worth, is just one small part of the socialist bubble under which this shitshower operated.... The United Kingdom was forced on two separate occasions in the last 100 years to launch military adventures financially crippling itself in the process, to save four of the original six EEC countries from the military adventures of the other two. They can no more get their shit together to defend themselves than Kier Starmer could identify a working woman, although it must be said his deputy, standing by a poster advertising 20 minutes for a most reasonable sum, might have demonstrated her grasp of that issue . The fact they are still arguing about whether to act to stop Putin moving the border of his fiefdom next to Poland and eye it up longing for days past demonstrates far more eloquently than any of my words the reality of their disconnection. 1. Your clear bias tends to undermine any points you want to make. Too many words and not as incisive as I would expect from some as well educated and experienced as yourself. Do you understand the processes of the European Captains of Culture and its back-up financial support? Back later. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 27, 2024 11:14:53 GMT
All of this is too vague to mean much without unboxing those terms a bit. For instance 'Taking us back' might mean taking us back towards democracy if the current course is anti-democratic, which going by some recent establishment pronouncements about the dangers of freedom of speech and the US constitution, it might be well be. Those who claim to be 'taking us forward' might, in reality, be taking us back - which, going by some recent establishment pronouncements about the dangers of freedom of speech and the US constitution - they might be well be. Taking us back to a period when the rich were even richer compared to any wealth owned by the poor. So, by arguing for freedom of speech, are conservatives trying to take us backward or forward? |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 27, 2024 11:21:15 GMT
We come full circle. We are back to RW because someone says so and illiberal disappears into the ether despite you making bold with its relevance. There must be a policy somewhere you can highlight and say look this is the unacceptable face of rightists. All you seem able to do is call them names and then insult those who query why you hold such views. EDIT I see you have expanded above but what do see illiberal to mean, I have referenced its definition which you seem to think is not correct. My views are that Rightists play being dumb in order to not accept that Hard-Right and Far-Right political areas exist. And then ask me to explain it to them. If they don't know they would be better off not wasting posters time by posting on a debating forum. il·lib·eral [ɪˈlɪb(ə)rəl] adjective opposed to liberal principles; restricting freedom of thought or behaviour: "illiberal and anti-democratic policies" I am not sure why you referred to my definition as nonsense when you give the same definition. I know not what policies the 'far right' or the 'right' have that are either illiberal or anti-democratic, it seems that most want to increase democratic accountability and increase liberal thinking and the interchange of ideas. So I am no further forward. Your basic principles seem to be that RW politicians lie as regard what they intend to do in creating government and everyone knows who the RW politicians are. I think perhaps we have different takes on what constitutes danger for the electorate. One point is that being opposed to liberal principles which defines as 'willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas:' the only place I see that in action is on the left and in the centre of our politics. You seem to have difficulty in understanding that a willingness to accept is not the same as a willingness to to accept imposition of new ideas by force of law and against the democratic wishes of the electorate. |
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Post by Rebirth on Oct 27, 2024 11:37:52 GMT
My views are that Rightists play being dumb in order to not accept that Hard-Right and Far-Right political areas exist. And then ask me to explain it to them. If they don't know they would be better off not wasting posters time by posting on a debating forum. il·lib·eral [ɪˈlɪb(ə)rəl] adjective opposed to liberal principles; restricting freedom of thought or behaviour: "illiberal and anti-democratic policies" The irony.  It's hard to believe that anyone can be so stupid, so dense and so obviously oblivious to reality that they fail to notice that the most illiberal movement in the UK is coming from the tsunami of illiberal and extremely intolerant left, which waves banners calling to no-platform people they disagree with.
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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 27, 2024 11:56:29 GMT
Just reading a couple of the lefties on this site gives you a general mindset into them, just judging by a couple of them on here they lack any form of empathy, compassion for their fellow man, Starmer is a prime example of being dispassionate he has absolutely no shame in cutting the pensioners winter fuel payment, but we all know for a fact if the Tories won the GE, and this was their policy we would never hear the end of Starmer and the rest of the Labour hypocrites preaching to us about the nasty Tory party, and how they will kill thousands of pensioners by cutting their WFA.
They are double standar lefty hypocrites, who will kick any political football to score points, Starmer lied through his teeth to get top job, and for that he should be unceremoniously kicked out.
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Post by see2 on Oct 27, 2024 14:25:50 GMT
Taking us back to a period when the rich were even richer compared to any wealth owned by the poor. So, by arguing for freedom of speech, are conservatives trying to take us backward or forward? You miss the point entirely which makes your question a nonsense. |
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Post by see2 on Oct 27, 2024 14:43:43 GMT
You are entitled to your opinion. The basis of the EU is to raise the economic levels of its members. As, when or if, the EU gradually gets its act together, it will become economically stronger to the point that it will be necessary for it to be able to defend itself and to defend democracy with all its freedoms, freedoms that don't exist in dictatorship countries. I wonder sometimes if you truly believe what you write, given the facts clear to all The 'basis' of the European union, far from raising any measurable metrics for anyone save it's freeloading parliamentarians and service staff, who enjoy special tax rates on their bloated salaries, is now, was when the original Lisbon Constitution was rejected by multiple voices, and was when the Iron and Steel Trades Confederation poured the foundations for the Treaty of Rome, to drag the front runners in the European Leader Board down to the level of the basket cases by forcing them to shower said basket cases with largesse. They have from day one cosseted the inefficient and the feckless wastrel. The butter and beef mountains, milk and wine lakes dumped on former African colonies to remove the possibility of their being sold to member state citizens for the real price they were worth, is just one small part of the socialist bubble under which this shitshower operated....The United Kingdom was forced on two separate occasions in the last 100 years to launch military adventures financially crippling itself in the process, to save four of the original six EEC countries from the military adventures of the other two. They can no more get their shit together to defend themselves than Kier Starmer could identify a working woman, although it must be said his deputy, standing by a poster advertising 20 minutes for a most reasonable sum, might have demonstrated her grasp of that issue . The fact they are still arguing about whether to act to stop Putin moving the border of his fiefdom next to Poland and eye it up longing for days past demonstrates far more eloquently than any of my words the reality of their disconnection. 2. The Butter mountains etc. were the early days of attempting to bring some form of order to a market place that tended to go from overproduction one year to shortages the next, as producers tried to follow whatever would make the most returns for their effort. 3. That was before the EU existed. 4. Makes no sense, care to explain? 5. Nonsense opinion. The EU backs the Ukraine, and has given Ukraine cash -- "From January 24, 2022, to June 30, 2024, the European Union (EU) institutions, such as the Commission and the EU Council, provided over 39 billion euros in bilateral financial, humanitarian, and military aid to Ukraine in view of the Russian invasion that started in February 2022. In short your biased opinion of the EU does you no credit at all. |
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Post by see2 on Oct 27, 2024 14:55:27 GMT
Just reading a couple of the lefties on this site gives you a general mindset into them, just judging by a couple of them on here they lack any form of empathy, compassion for their fellow man, Starmer is a prime example of being dispassionate he has absolutely no shame in cutting the pensioners winter fuel payment, but we all know for a fact if the Tories won the GE, and this was their policy we would never hear the end of Starmer and the rest of the Labour hypocrites preaching to us about the nasty Tory party, and how they will kill thousands of pensioners by cutting their WFA. They are double standar lefty hypocrites, who will kick any political football to score points, Starmer lied through his teeth to get top job, and for that he should be unceremoniously kicked out. No matter how bad Starmer is made out to be, he is not the one who so badly damaged the economy. The Tories lived an economic lie that has let the country down. Unless the economy is rescued most people will suffer, not just the pensioners. We still do not know just how much help the pensioners will get, and until someone does the maths, we won't know. Of those pensioners who will not get the WFA, how many don't need it? Have you done your bit to make sure that pensioners near you are OK? |
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Post by borgr0 on Oct 27, 2024 17:38:38 GMT
What does an 'end' to dictatorships look like? Nuclear obliteration? I nor anyone else are suggesting that dictatorships should dominate 1. Could be, or it could be a wakening up of the masses. 2. If the West gets it wrong, then Dictatorships will take control, firstly by dominating economic control and then by virtue of their wealth. IMO dictatorships are the new financial form of Conservatism taking us back a 100 years or more, i.e. The top 1% of Russia's wealthiest people held 47.7% of the country's wealth. Even higher than the old and failed Conservatives. What does a waking of the masses look like to you? If the west 'gets it wrong' it will be no different to decades past and will lead to the same results. There isn't much chance of Russia being the top world superpower anytime soon |
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Post by borgr0 on Oct 27, 2024 17:45:21 GMT
All that being said, wouldn't the best period for peace be roughly 1990-2010? That would seem to be the period of least world upheaval in human history ... The same is true with the USA IMHO, you can't have a world superpower that acts as world police forever, it's not sustainable. It's not going to last. ... Isn't that the period which straddles 9/11? Plenty of global upheaval in the wake of that.
But you're right, Pax Americana can't last either. Sooner rather than later the Imperial levies will be called home due to financial stringencies or to deal with domestic friction and inter-ethnic conflict stoked by political discord.
And then what?
Who knows, but maybe something better will come out of it? We can hope |
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Post by johnofgwent on Oct 27, 2024 19:10:49 GMT
I wonder sometimes if you truly believe what you write, given the facts clear to all The 'basis' of the European union, far from raising any measurable metrics for anyone save it's freeloading parliamentarians and service staff, who enjoy special tax rates on their bloated salaries, is now, was when the original Lisbon Constitution was rejected by multiple voices, and was when the Iron and Steel Trades Confederation poured the foundations for the Treaty of Rome, to drag the front runners in the European Leader Board down to the level of the basket cases by forcing them to shower said basket cases with largesse. They have from day one cosseted the inefficient and the feckless wastrel. The butter and beef mountains, milk and wine lakes dumped on former African colonies to remove the possibility of their being sold to member state citizens for the real price they were worth, is just one small part of the socialist bubble under which this shitshower operated.... The United Kingdom was forced on two separate occasions in the last 100 years to launch military adventures financially crippling itself in the process, to save four of the original six EEC countries from the military adventures of the other two. They can no more get their shit together to defend themselves than Kier Starmer could identify a working woman, although it must be said his deputy, standing by a poster advertising 20 minutes for a most reasonable sum, might have demonstrated her grasp of that issue . The fact they are still arguing about whether to act to stop Putin moving the border of his fiefdom next to Poland and eye it up longing for days past demonstrates far more eloquently than any of my words the reality of their disconnection. I am totally shocked by your one eyed view of the EU, which IMO exposed your ingrained bias against the EU. But I am just about to have my breakfast and recover from the shock., back later. I really can't see why I have made my views crystal clear many times As a freelance IT consultant I took several short contracts in France, Belgium, Italy and Germany in the period where we were messing with the hard ECU and John Major had bullshitted his way through pushing the Maastricht treaty past us. He has an S word - which the Europeans killed stone dead with their single market bullshit that meant nothing could be done in the UK But in those nine months, I found several things out 1) the provisions of the treaty of Rome giving provision of service the same freedom as freedom of movement was swiftly buried never to be allowed 2) Talk of Hard ECUs was bullshit. My attempts to deal with three foreign government departments and be paid to them was rejected outright 3) Banks stole one french franc and Belgian franc in four, and one lira in three, to transform my hours of effort into UK pounds in a UK bank 4) UK citizens were banned from having bank accounts in the EEC despite the express right to have them In short, the EEC was a hell on earth to work in and the EU was a one way street. My actual experience of the shittery allowed me to see a vote to leave the hell hole was the only sensible one. |
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Post by dodgydave on Oct 27, 2024 23:50:53 GMT
There won't be democracy as we know it in 100 years, but not for the reasons you think.
The democratic process is slow, and the world is getting faster and faster. The only way to compete will be to have decisions made quickly.
That is why we are entering the period of the dictator again. However, while one person can make quick decisions, they are also prone to making bad decisions.
The democratic nations will have to resort to autonomy to compete... so it's pretty certain that our lives will be run by some kind of Quantum Computing instead of politicians. So our final act of democracy will be to say fuck off politicians, and hello to our AI overlords.
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Post by Orac on Oct 28, 2024 8:53:18 GMT
There won't be democracy as we know it in 100 years, but not for the reasons you think. The democratic process is slow, and the world is getting faster and faster. The only way to compete will be to have decisions made quickly. That is why we are entering the period of the dictator again. However, while one person can make quick decisions, they are also prone to making bad decisions. The democratic nations will have to resort to autonomy to compete... so it's pretty certain that our lives will be run by some kind of Quantum Computing instead of politicians. So our final act of democracy will be to say fuck off politicians, and hello to our AI overlords. If there is no time for people to talk about what should happen next, there is no society. |
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Post by see2 on Oct 28, 2024 10:26:00 GMT
The irony. It's hard to believe that anyone can be so stupid, so dense and so obviously oblivious to reality that they fail to notice that the most illiberal movement in the UK is coming from the tsunami of illiberal and extremely intolerant left, which waves banners calling to no-platform people they disagree with.
I'm sure you enjoyed your rant, problem is it has nothing to do with TSM's baseless comment, or the correct description of being "illiberal" as referred to in the description Rightism. |
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