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Post by see2 on Oct 26, 2024 8:26:46 GMT
Putin's plans for a "multipolar world order", is it a direct attack on democracy? It is backed by dictator countries and dictator like countries.
It seems to me that a united states of Europe has never been more important, it, along with America (minus Trump) may be part of a bastion of defense of democracy.
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Post by johnofgwent on Oct 26, 2024 8:35:33 GMT
All a 'united states of europe' will do is give the modern day equivalent of the Vichy French somewhere to hold court.
The answer to Putin is a taste of his own policy towards people he is less than keen stay breathing. But that won't be happening any time soon.
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Post by see2 on Oct 26, 2024 8:46:55 GMT
All a 'united states of europe' will do is give the modern day equivalent of the Vichy French somewhere to hold court. The answer to Putin is a taste of his own policy towards people he is less than keen stay breathing. But that won't be happening any time soon. You are entitled to your opinion. The basis of the EU is to raise the economic levels of its members. As, when or if, the EU gradually gets its act together, it will become economically stronger to the point that it will be necessary for it to be able to defend itself and to defend democracy with all its freedoms, freedoms that don't exist in dictatorship countries. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 26, 2024 9:37:56 GMT
All a 'united states of europe' will do is give the modern day equivalent of the Vichy French somewhere to hold court. The answer to Putin is a taste of his own policy towards people he is less than keen stay breathing. But that won't be happening any time soon. You are entitled to your opinion. The basis of the EU is to raise the economic levels of its members. As, when or if, the EU gradually gets its act together, it will become economically stronger to the point that it will be necessary for it to be able to defend itself and to defend democracy with all its freedoms, freedoms that don't exist in dictatorship countries. you mean the same freedoms that forces its members to take in migrants, they can't opt out because the EU says so, and you talk about dictatorships, thankfully it looks like Italy have given them the two finger salute, with a fuck you EU we are shipping migrants to Albania and we don't give a shit what you say ... Good on Italy. |
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Post by see2 on Oct 26, 2024 10:06:06 GMT
You are entitled to your opinion. The basis of the EU is to raise the economic levels of its members. As, when or if, the EU gradually gets its act together, it will become economically stronger to the point that it will be necessary for it to be able to defend itself and to defend democracy with all its freedoms, freedoms that don't exist in dictatorship countries. and you talk about dictatorships, thankfully it looks like Italy have given them the two finger salute, with a fuck you EU we are shipping migrants to Albania and we don't give a shit what you say ... Good on Italy. It has nothing to do with an EU say so, it is the ECHR say so when dealing with ASYLUM SEEKERS. To my knowledge no one is eager to bring in ASYLUM SEEKERS they just arrive uninvited on the shores of Europe, mostly Italian shores, where Italy alone could not handle the numbers. The EU has no say in the way a country deals with ASYLUM SEEKERS, all the EU is concerned about is that it member states accept the laws imposed by the ECHR. Italy's action are now under investigation and it may be deemed illegal. "The last 12 asylum seekers being held in a new Italian migration hub in Albania must be transferred to Italy, a court has ruled, in a heavy blow to a controversial deal between the far-right Rome government and Tirana aimed at curbing migrant arrivals. (read on). www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/18/blow-to-melonis-albania-deal-as-court-orders-asylum-seekers-return-to-italy |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 26, 2024 16:45:08 GMT
Can a member of the EU withdraw from the ECHR?
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 26, 2024 16:51:48 GMT
Can a member of the EU withdraw from the ECHR? I believe the requirement for membership of the Council of Europe (and hence the HR Convention) applied to EU member states acceding after around 2000. States that were already members prior to that are probably able to derogate and still remain in the EU. It's a bit theoretical since nobody has tested it yet. |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 26, 2024 17:17:10 GMT
Can a member of the EU withdraw from the ECHR? I believe the requirement for membership of the Council of Europe (and hence the HR Convention) applied to EU member states acceding after around 2000. States that were already members prior to that are probably able to derogate and still remain in the EU. It's a bit theoretical since nobody has tested it yet. So really it’s a bit disingenuous to say that the ECHR and the EU are seperate . If it’s in doubt that you can be a member of the EU but not in the ECHR anyway . |
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Post by borgr0 on Oct 26, 2024 17:21:47 GMT
All unions have their time and I'm seeing the EU looks like it's in existential turmoil, I'm not denigrating the EU at all - they do good work and their main aim in being formed was to prevent a repeat of WWII; to that end I hope they succeed, but sometimes a union needs to end and something needs to replace it - just like the league of nations was once replaced by the UN.
The same might be true with the EU, but there should be no vacuum left if it does disintegrate. If there's a vacuum, it will be bad news.
The same is true with the WTO replacing GATT etc etc etc, the WTO needs replacing now as that is dead too.
And same for the UN, and many other global agencies that are no longer fit for purpose (arguably), I am condemning none of them, they all do and did good work but sometimes their time comes to an end, new things must be sought.
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Post by borgr0 on Oct 26, 2024 17:24:32 GMT
There is actually nothing wrong with a multipolar world order, in fact, a world order with one dominant superpower is a much bigger threat to democracy than a multipolar world anyway
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Post by see2 on Oct 26, 2024 18:21:44 GMT
All unions have their time and I'm seeing the EU looks like it's in existential turmoil, I'm not denigrating the EU at all - they do good work and their main aim in being formed was to prevent a repeat of WWII; to that end I hope they succeed, but sometimes a union needs to end and something needs to replace it - just like the league of nations was once replaced by the UN. The same might be true with the EU, but there should be no vacuum left if it does disintegrate. If there's a vacuum, it will be bad news. The same is true with the WTO replacing GATT etc etc etc, the WTO needs replacing now as that is dead too. And same for the UN, and many other global agencies that are no longer fit for purpose (arguably), I am condemning none of them, they all do and did good work but sometimes their time comes to an end, new things must be sought. How about an ending for dictatorships and their ilk? With Georgia on the brink of joining Russia, after much interference in the Georgian election by Russia, it looks like the Russian dictatorship has set its sights on more control of the countries around it. |
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Post by see2 on Oct 26, 2024 18:24:42 GMT
There is actually nothing wrong with a multipolar world order, in fact, a world order with one dominant superpower is a much bigger threat to democracy than a multipolar world anyway A multipower world where dictatorships dominate, and possibly do so at the expense of democracy is surely not a desirable thing to happen. |
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Post by bancroft on Oct 26, 2024 18:36:01 GMT
The EU became subservient to the US and its military org NATO, it could pull away again yet I fear the ghost of WWII still hangs over Europe, the US never suffered this devastation except in Hawaii and are happy if Europe tears itself up again with them leading the Allies.
Hungary may pull out and link up with Serbia, Slovakia, Montenegro and North Macedonia in disgust at the EU following the US dictact over not trading with Russia and concerns over EU dictats on illegal migrants, if so a new Slav free trading zone could spring up in Europe. By no means likely yet might come together depending on EU behaviour to member dissenters.
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Post by see2 on Oct 26, 2024 18:58:48 GMT
The EU became subservient to the US and its military org NATO, it could pull away again yet I fear the ghost of WWII still hangs over Europe, the US never suffered this devastation except in Hawaii and are happy if Europe tears itself up again with them leading the Allies. Hungary may pull out and link up with Serbia, Slovakia, Montenegro and North Macedonia in disgust at the EU following the US dictact over not trading with Russia and concerns over EU dictats on illegal migrants, if so a new Slav free trading zone could spring up in Europe. By no means likely yet might come together depending on EU behaviour to member dissenters. -- "What a foolish way to start your post. -- "The history of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) begins in the immediate aftermath of World War II when British diplomacy set the stage to contain the Soviet Union and to stop the expansion of Soviet power in Europe. The United Kingdom and France signed, in 1947, the Treaty of Dunkirk, a defensive pact, which was expanded in 1948 with the Treaty of Brussels to add the three Benelux countries (Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg) and committed them to collective defense against an armed attack for fifty years. The British worked with Washington to expand the alliance into NATO in 1949, adding the United States and Canada as well as Italy, Hungary is a very right-wing country with many ideas that do not sit well in the EU. Hungary is the problem, not the EU. IMO opinion Hungary needs to find a more moderate government or leave the EU and perhaps connects itself to the Russian dictatorship. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 26, 2024 19:01:43 GMT
The EU became subservient to the US and its military org NATO, it could pull away again yet I fear the ghost of WWII still hangs over Europe, the US never suffered this devastation except in Hawaii and are happy if Europe tears itself up again with them leading the Allies. Hungary may pull out and link up with Serbia, Slovakia, Montenegro and North Macedonia in disgust at the EU following the US dictact over not trading with Russia and concerns over EU dictats on illegal migrants, if so a new Slav free trading zone could spring up in Europe. By no means likely yet might come together depending on EU behaviour to member dissenters. -- "What a foolish way to start your post. -- "The history of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) begins in the immediate aftermath of World War II when British diplomacy set the stage to contain the Soviet Union and to stop the expansion of Soviet power in Europe. The United Kingdom and France signed, in 1947, the Treaty of Dunkirk, a defensive pact, which was expanded in 1948 with the Treaty of Brussels to add the three Benelux countries (Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg) and committed them to collective defense against an armed attack for fifty years. The British worked with Washington to expand the alliance into NATO in 1949, adding the United States and Canada as well as Italy, Hungary is a very right-wing country with many ideas that do not sit well in the EU. Hungary is the problem, not the EU. IMO opinion Hungary needs to find a more moderate government or leave the EU and perhaps connects itself to the Russian dictatorship. What is it about Hungary's government that makes it very right wing and what policies should it jettison and what policies should it take on board to make it more 'moderate'? |
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