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Post by Pacifico on Nov 6, 2024 11:44:09 GMT
I'm afraid I have Baron - more investment is more on bills. You are fooling yourself. says the man who is fooled by wacky youtube videos from China.. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 6, 2024 11:49:21 GMT
Of course health care is rationed - hence the waiting lists for it. But what happens when there is not enough energy supply? - you cannot AI into existence something that does not exist. Also what happens if I dont want to do my washing in the middle of the night? - if you are not forcing people to comply then the outcome is not going to be as effective as you might wish. I wasn't claiming health care isn't rationed, my claim is everything is rationed. When all the other systems I combined fail to supply, then your gas back comes into use. But you still buy a lot less gas, which after all is the expensive bit of fossil fuel power systems. If you don't want to do your washing at high energy available times (Not just the middle of the night) you would be free to do so. The system is designed to encourage, not force. If you are happy to pay twice as much per wash just to do it in at an inopportune time that would be your choice. And in nice synchronicity you would be paying that extra cost of burning gas. One thing I forgot to mention that makes a significant difference is that the gas powered generating plants could run full time supplying which every country is suffering a shortfall. There would just be significantly less of them across the globe. Net zero does not require no fossil fuels. You still haven't addressed my point on Putin. Is it always just about the money or are you willing to pay more for things you think are worthy? Onre Gas is cheaper than renewables except for onshore wind - but then you get into the issue is do you want our green and pleasant land despoiled by windmills. Is there no price on protection of the environment? So you are going to try and force people by price to use energy when it is available, not when it is needed. How are you expecting a business to survive with that system - is this what is going to grow the economy, vast fluctuations in power cost and availability? With regards to Putin I have always said we should be self sufficient in energy supplies - which is not that hard to do. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 6, 2024 11:59:23 GMT
You are fooling yourself. says the man who is fooled by wacky youtube videos from China.. Even the kids are better at maths than you over there. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 6, 2024 18:19:22 GMT
I wasn't claiming health care isn't rationed, my claim is everything is rationed. When all the other systems I combined fail to supply, then your gas back comes into use. But you still buy a lot less gas, which after all is the expensive bit of fossil fuel power systems. If you don't want to do your washing at high energy available times (Not just the middle of the night) you would be free to do so. The system is designed to encourage, not force. If you are happy to pay twice as much per wash just to do it in at an inopportune time that would be your choice. And in nice synchronicity you would be paying that extra cost of burning gas. One thing I forgot to mention that makes a significant difference is that the gas powered generating plants could run full time supplying which every country is suffering a shortfall. There would just be significantly less of them across the globe. Net zero does not require no fossil fuels. You still haven't addressed my point on Putin. Is it always just about the money or are you willing to pay more for things you think are worthy? Gas is cheaper than renewables except for onshore wind - but then you get into the issue is do you want our green and pleasant land despoiled by windmills. Is there no price on protection of the environment? So you are going to try and force people by price to use energy when it is available, not when it is needed. How are you expecting a business to survive with that system - is this what is going to grow the economy, vast fluctuations in power cost and availability? With regards to Putin I have always said we should be self sufficient in energy supplies - which is not that hard to do. Well as a person who accepts we need address AGW I do accept a higher price needed in the early stages. And wind is cheaper than gas now (Even off shore) I could post you endless charts, but each time you ignore them. I would agree that the gas we will still need should be local but its more expensive than Russian gas, so you would be forcing people to pay more for something you believe in. Cheapest is definitely to fxxk Ukraine and get cheap gas from Moscow. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 6, 2024 18:42:13 GMT
Gas is cheaper than renewables except for onshore wind - but then you get into the issue is do you want our green and pleasant land despoiled by windmills. Is there no price on protection of the environment? So you are going to try and force people by price to use energy when it is available, not when it is needed. How are you expecting a business to survive with that system - is this what is going to grow the economy, vast fluctuations in power cost and availability? With regards to Putin I have always said we should be self sufficient in energy supplies - which is not that hard to do. Well as a person who accepts we need address AGW I do accept a higher price needed in the early stages. And wind is cheaper than gas now (Even off shore) I could post you endless charts, but each time you ignore them. I would agree that the gas we will still need should be local but its more expensive than Russian gas, so you would be forcing people to pay more for something you believe in. Cheapest is definitely to fxxk Ukraine and get cheap gas from Moscow. I ignore your charts because they do not reflect reality. You need to look at what we actually pay (see the last AR6 round), not what some academic thinks we should be paying. UK gas is no more expensive than Russian - it is simply banned from extraction.  |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 6, 2024 18:56:16 GMT
Well as a person who accepts we need address AGW I do accept a higher price needed in the early stages. And wind is cheaper than gas now (Even off shore) I could post you endless charts, but each time you ignore them. I would agree that the gas we will still need should be local but its more expensive than Russian gas, so you would be forcing people to pay more for something you believe in. Cheapest is definitely to fxxk Ukraine and get cheap gas from Moscow. I ignore your charts because they do not reflect reality. You need to look at what we actually pay (see the last AR6 round), not what some academic thinks we should be paying. UK gas is no more expensive than Russian - it is simply banned from extraction. So you prefer the manipulated price rather than what it actually costs.  |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 6, 2024 22:32:04 GMT
I ignore your charts because they do not reflect reality. You need to look at what we actually pay (see the last AR6 round), not what some academic thinks we should be paying. UK gas is no more expensive than Russian - it is simply banned from extraction. So you prefer the manipulated price rather than what it actually costs. This is exactly what I mean - it's impossible to have a sensible discussion with you because you believe that a chart from Lazard (financial advisors and asset managers) is more accurate than the contracts awarded by the UK government. You simply cannot argue with that level of faith/delusion. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 7, 2024 8:46:57 GMT
So you prefer the manipulated price rather than what it actually costs. This is exactly what I mean - it's impossible to have a sensible discussion with you because you believe that a chart from Lazard (financial advisors and asset managers) is more accurate than the contracts awarded by the UK government. You simply cannot argue with that level of faith/delusion. Well I think the same of you. I've given you charts from across the globe, America etc, but you choose the one where the British government have hiked prices for there own good reasons. But you give them without investigating those reasons. You seem to enjoy the bias more than the truth if it tells the story you want to hear. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 7, 2024 9:07:23 GMT
This is exactly what I mean - it's impossible to have a sensible discussion with you because you believe that a chart from Lazard (financial advisors and asset managers) is more accurate than the contracts awarded by the UK government. You simply cannot argue with that level of faith/delusion. Well I think the same of you. I've given you charts from across the globe, America etc, but you choose the one where the British government have hiked prices for there own good reasons. But you give them without investigating those reasons. You seem to enjoy the bias more than the truth if it tells the story you want to hear. It is an auction - the government does not set the price. The price is what the industry will deliver energy for - if you think there are companies out there that will do it cheaper then why did they not bid?. The Government auction round last year failed to find any bidders due to to the price being too low - they had to increase the price they were willing to pay to find anyone willing to deliver. This is the truth - that you continually refuse to accept it and rely on fake charts to support your faith is quaint but not related in any way to reality. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 7, 2024 9:20:21 GMT
Well I think the same of you. I've given you charts from across the globe, America etc, but you choose the one where the British government have hiked prices for there own good reasons. But you give them without investigating those reasons. You seem to enjoy the bias more than the truth if it tells the story you want to hear. It is an auction - the government does not set the price. The price is what the industry will deliver energy for - if you think there are companies out there that will do it cheaper then why did they not bid?. The Government auction round last year failed to find any bidders due to to the price being too low - they had to increase the price they were willing to pay to find anyone willing to deliver. This is the truth - that you continually refuse to accept it and rely on fake charts to support your faith is quaint but not related in any way to reality. Working with our government is a nightmare. It really pissed CGN off at Hinkley Point. It's the idea they can move the goalposts as and when their whim decides. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 7, 2024 9:32:28 GMT
Well I think the same of you. I've given you charts from across the globe, America etc, but you choose the one where the British government have hiked prices for there own good reasons. But you give them without investigating those reasons. You seem to enjoy the bias more than the truth if it tells the story you want to hear. It is an auction - the government does not set the price. The price is what the industry will deliver energy for - if you think there are companies out there that will do it cheaper then why did they not bid?. The Government auction round last year failed to find any bidders due to to the price being too low - they had to increase the price they were willing to pay to find anyone willing to deliver. This is the truth - that you continually refuse to accept it and rely on fake charts to support your faith is quaint but not related in any way to reality. Because the auction has to cover manufacturing costs as well as production at this time, but that will reduce as we go forward. Long term wind will be cheaper are production costs are less than gas. And we get the bonus of not being so reliant of foreign supply. And we clean up the planet instead of turning it into this.  |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 7, 2024 11:36:42 GMT
The cost of every form of energy production has to include manufacturing and construction, nobody would do it otherwise.
In the future costs may change but at the moment they are what they are - hence renewables have to be subsidised and that extra cost added to bills.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 7, 2024 15:46:40 GMT
The cost of every form of energy production has to include manufacturing and construction, nobody would do it otherwise. In the future costs may change but at the moment they are what they are - hence renewables have to be subsidised and that extra cost added to bills. Do try and think before you post. Gas supply systems already exist therefore the manufacturing part has long been covered. Wind is still being built so the cost will continue for a while. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 7, 2024 18:34:53 GMT
The cost of every form of energy production has to include manufacturing and construction, nobody would do it otherwise. In the future costs may change but at the moment they are what they are - hence renewables have to be subsidised and that extra cost added to bills. Do try and think before you post. Gas supply systems already exist therefore the manufacturing part has long been covered. Wind is still being built so the cost will continue for a while. Gas systems need updating (they are replacing all the gas pipes in my town as we speak), gas rigs wear out, power stations wear out - there is continual investment in the infrastructure. Renewables will be exactly the same - windmills need replacing after a fairly short period of time and the costs of that need to be reflected in peoples bills. Infrastructure spending does not magically stop after it is built. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 7, 2024 18:36:44 GMT
Do try and think before you post. Gas supply systems already exist therefore the manufacturing part has long been covered. Wind is still being built so the cost will continue for a while. Gas systems need updating (they are replacing all the gas pipes in my town as we speak), gas rigs wear out, power stations wear out - there is continual investment in the infrastructure. Renewables will be exactly the same - windmills need replacing after a fairly short period of time and the costs of that need to be reflected in peoples bills. Infrastructure spending does not magically stop after it is built. That's maintenance not manufacture. Aren't you some sort of capitalist wiz? |
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