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Post by Bentley on Nov 18, 2024 18:08:27 GMT
We often see estimates for early deaths from breathing polluted air. For the UK this is equivalent to between 29,000 and 43,000 deaths for adults, aged 30 and over, in 2019. For London the latest annual figure is between 3,600 and 4,100 attributable deaths. So basically ‘ we’ don’t know. Is polluted air all due to cars ? |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2024 18:09:15 GMT
Give it time, they are brilliant but folks take a while to get used to change. They wont be brilliant for anyone who needs to tow anything - they are totally impractical. They are a niche product that work well in certain specific situations. That was solved years back. In most cases it was purely that the EU had not signed off figures. Here you go. The towing capacity of the 2022 Kia EV6 supports up to 1800kg. This is a braked figure. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2024 18:11:44 GMT
We often see estimates for early deaths from breathing polluted air. For the UK this is equivalent to between 29,000 and 43,000 deaths for adults, aged 30 and over, in 2019. For London the latest annual figure is between 3,600 and 4,100 attributable deaths. So basically ‘ we’ don’t know. Is polluted air all due to cars ? Nice try. We never know. We can only look at evidence and generate estimates. How many deaths are due to smoking? |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 18, 2024 18:14:26 GMT
So basically ‘ we’ don’t know. Is polluted air all due to cars ? Nice try. We never know. We can only look at evidence and generate estimates. How many deaths are due to smoking? I didn’t need to try . You have no idea how many people die from Exhaust gases because no one does Yet you ask “How do those deaths compare to the effects of fumes breathed? I'm sure you've looked into this.”Obviously you hadn’t . |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2024 18:19:54 GMT
Nice try. We never know. We can only look at evidence and generate estimates. How many deaths are due to smoking? I didn’t need to try . You have no idea how many people die from Exhaust gases because no one does Yet you ask “How do those deaths compare to the effects of fumes breathed? I'm sure you've looked into this.”Obviously you hadn’t . I'm not the one claiming EV's are responsible for more deaths. I note you didn't ask Sandy for figures to back this up. But its well known vehicle pollution causes deaths, its why we have ULEZ. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 18, 2024 18:22:44 GMT
They wont be brilliant for anyone who needs to tow anything - they are totally impractical. They are a niche product that work well in certain specific situations. That was solved years back. In most cases it was purely that the EU had not signed off figures. Here you go. The towing capacity of the 2022 Kia EV6 supports up to 1800kg. This is a braked figure. Yes they can tow decent weights but that decimates the range. Take the latest Porsche - range is around 280 miles, but start towing and that falls rapidly to around a 100. So basically after driving 80 miles you have to start looking around for somewhere to recharge - and then comes your next problem. Pretty much all recharge stations are designed with the need to reverse in so if you are towing you have to drop the trailer and then reconnect every time you recharge. It's a nonsense and no amount of wishing is going to overcome the problem.  |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 18, 2024 18:26:10 GMT
I didn’t need to try . You have no idea how many people die from Exhaust gases because no one does Yet you ask “How do those deaths compare to the effects of fumes breathed? I'm sure you've looked into this.”Obviously you hadn’t . I'm not the one claiming EV's are responsible for more deaths. I note you didn't ask Sandy for figures to back this up. But its well known vehicle pollution causes deaths, it’s why we have ULEZ. I note that you introduced a ‘ death by exhaust fumes ‘ factor that you have no idea of the numbers . Dont point at me to divert from for your inability to defend it . It’s well known that ICE cars are a better buy than EV vehicles… |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2024 18:26:58 GMT
That was solved years back. In most cases it was purely that the EU had not signed off figures. Here you go. The towing capacity of the 2022 Kia EV6 supports up to 1800kg. This is a braked figure. Yes they can tow decent weights but that decimates the range. Take the latest Porsche - range is around 280 miles, but start towing and that falls rapidly to around a 100. So basically after driving 80 miles you have to start looking around for somewhere to recharge - and then comes your next problem. Pretty much all recharge stations are designed with the need to reverse in so if you are towing you have to drop the trailer and then reconnect every time you recharge. It's a nonsense and no amount of wishing is going to overcome the problem. Ah cool, didn't realise you knew about the towing weights issue. Yes I agree about the reduction of range, same with petrol cars. Difference being the ease to refill the petrol car. This is one that needs addressing. Hopefully by the 2035 the structure will be in place for this small group as well. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2024 18:28:25 GMT
I'm not the one claiming EV's are responsible for more deaths. I note you didn't ask Sandy for figures to back this up. But its well known vehicle pollution causes deaths, it’s why we have ULEZ. I note that you introduced a ‘ death by exhaust fumes ‘ factor that you have no idea of the numbers . Dont point at me to divert from for your inability to defend it . It’s well known that ICE cars are a better buy than EV vehicles… I gave you numbers, you want an exact number which is a stupid request as you know. Do you feel that makes to the winner. Sigh. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 18, 2024 18:32:24 GMT
I note that you introduced a ‘ death by exhaust fumes ‘ factor that you have no idea of the numbers . Dont point at me to divert from for your inability to defend it . It’s well known that ICE cars are a better buy than EV vehicles… I gave you numbers, you want an exact number which is a stupid request as you know. Do you feel that makes to the winner. Sigh. You gave me some estimates on polluted air.. I don’t know if there is a winner here but it’s certainly not you . www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show?CMP=Share_iOSApp_OtherAlmost 2,000 times more particle pollution is produced by tyre wear than is pumped out of the exhausts of modern cars, tests have shown. The tyre particles pollute air, water and soil and contain a wide range of toxic organic compounds, including known carcinogens, the analysts say, suggesting tyre pollution could rapidly become a major issue for regulators www.actionforcleanair.org.uk/business/clean-air-workplaces#:~:text=Air%20pollution%20impacts%20everyone%2C%20but,quality%20and%20protect%20employee%20health. Air pollution impacts everyone, but those in the manufacturing industry are at greater risk as they are exposed to more dust, toxic particles and pollution in their workplace. With nearly three million people employed in the UK’s manufacturing sector, we must protect our essential workers who continue to keep our economy running. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2024 20:04:41 GMT
One does not negate the other. Tyre wear pollution from EV's is only marginally worse than other cars, because most of tyres is not toxic or carcinogenic. Anyway. We are comparing deaths caused by EV's being too quiet against deaths from fossil fuel fumes. Those in manufacturing can be given protection, children going to school less so. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 18, 2024 20:10:03 GMT
Not quite the point. There are a multitude of laws and regulations surrounding our relationship with cars. I cannot think of any legislation that either does not act to increase safety and reduce deaths or has no impact on safety in any negative way. The legislation introduced to coerce and force drivers into electric vehicles has the effect of increasing the risk of death and injury to pedestrians, even if only in a small way. I can think of no other legislation as regards transport that actually does that. The upshot is that the government accept a degree of increased risk to members of the electorate so that they can follow their net zero dream. How do those deaths compare to the effects of fumes breathed? I'm sure you've looked into this. We do not know how many deaths will occur, it increases risk whereas all other legislation is to decrease risk. The fumes one is partially controlled by Emission zones and no doubt Khan will have to hand that he saved millions of lives. It is a relevant point though but it is in the realms of unknown as far as I can see as the emissions are in part controlled by punitive costs on high emitters and the emissions from the EVs power are made somewhere else currently. PS I should have added but forgot that the legislation in question deals with road safety issues as opposed to fumes and emissions. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2024 20:26:13 GMT
How do those deaths compare to the effects of fumes breathed? I'm sure you've looked into this. We do not know how many deaths will occur, it increases risk whereas all other legislation is to decrease risk. The fumes one is partially controlled by Emission zones and no doubt Khan will have to hand that he saved millions of lives. It is a relevant point though but it is in the realms of unknown as far as I can see as the emissions are in part controlled by punitive costs on high emitters and the emissions from the EVs power are made somewhere else currently. PS I should have added but forgot that the legislation in question deals with road safety issues as opposed to fumes and emissions. That's very specific. What specifically are you referring to. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 18, 2024 20:27:09 GMT
One does not negate the other. Tyre wear pollution from EV's is only marginally worse than other cars, because most of tyres is not toxic or carcinogenic. Anyway. We are comparing deaths caused by EV's being too quiet against deaths from fossil fuel fumes. Those in manufacturing can be given protection, children going to school less so. I never said they did . Polluted air isn’t exhaust gases . Evs probably make more tyre pollution than equivalent ICE cars because they tend to be heavier . Manufacturing produces polluted air . All these things and more produce polluted air . Your lame attempt at strawmen do not refute this. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2024 20:37:10 GMT
One does not negate the other. Tyre wear pollution from EV's is only marginally worse than other cars, because most of tyres is not toxic or carcinogenic. Anyway. We are comparing deaths caused by EV's being too quiet against deaths from fossil fuel fumes. Those in manufacturing can be given protection, children going to school less so. I never said they did . Polluted air isn’t exhaust gases . Evs probably make more tyre pollution than equivalent ICE cars because they tend to be heavier . Manufacturing produces polluted air . All these things and more produce polluted air . Your lame attempt at strawmen do not refute this. Polluted air is exhaust gases. Benzene
While there are other hydrocarbons present in vehicle exhaust gases, the most prevalent and dangerous of them is benzene (chemical formula: C6H6). Benzene is a liquid that vaporises really easily, creating fumes. It has a sweet smell, making it easy to detect. Sulphur Dioxide
Sulphur dioxide (chemical formula: SO2) is another gas with a distinctive smell, making it easy to identify and detect. It is created during volcanic activity, which is why it’s found in higher concentrations around volcanoes. When inhaled, this exhaust fume gas will irritate your nasal passage, throat, and airways. Soot
Funnily enough, it’s tiny particles of carbon, when inhaled, the particles are small enough to get inside your lungs and bloodstream. Once inside, they can affect your heart and lungs, leading to heart attacks, bronchitis, asthma, strokes, and more. |
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