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Post by jonksy on Nov 17, 2024 8:05:26 GMT
Cobalt is used for litheum. Yet again you show your ignorance....
Litheum Mining.
“We've just seen an explosion of proposed projects in the planning, piloting, demonstration stage across a much wider array of countries,” says Caroline White-Nockleby, a PhD candidate who studies renewable energy transitions in MIT’s doctoral program in History; Anthropology; and Science, Technology, and Society.
Both brine and hard rock mining come with environmental and social costs. Sixty percent of the world’s lithium stores are located in brine deposits in South America’s “lithium triangle,” sometimes in ecologically sensitive areas.4 Mining of all kinds can disturb landscapes. And though hard rock mining uses more freshwater, both types of mining require significant water use, a resource that may be scarce in certain mining regions.5 In areas of lithium extraction from brine, brine loss is also significant, says White-Nockleby. Because brine is often not considered freshwater suitable for human use, it may have fewer regulatory protections, though mining from it can still impact ecosystems and communities.6
When it comes to energy use, brine mining, which largely uses energy from the sun, is much less intensive than hard rock mining, which requires heavy machinery to dig up and crush rock. The energy used by mining machinery creates climate pollution like carbon dioxide, which warms the planet. A 2021 study found that lithium concentration and production from brine can create about 11 tons of carbon dioxide per ton of lithium, while mining lithium from spodumene ore releases about 37 tons of CO2 per ton of lithium produced.5
The social impacts of lithium mining depend on how mining companies behave and how governments regulate them. Ideally, communities that host lithium mining would share in the economic benefits, and not be left on their own to deal with cleanup and the loss of local resources—though this is far from always the case. Last year, California, where companies are planning to extract lithium from brine, created a law to try to redirect some future mining profits towards local communities. The government will tax lithium extraction at $400 to $800 per ton, which will go to environmental restoration and community benefit projects, as well as directly to counties impacted by extraction.7
The impacts of this policy are yet to be seen, and White-Nockleby urges caution as companies propose more extraction projects across the globe. "Historically and today, lithium mining has disproportionately affected low-income and marginalized communities, and has also often impacted lands with cultural importance to Indigenous communities," she says. “It's important that communities be a part of any lithium mining planning process from the very beginning. People always have the right to reject an extraction project.”
New methods of lithium extraction, which may use less energy and resources, are also being pioneered. In “direct lithium extraction,” specialized filters are used to separate lithium from brine. The process can have a smaller footprint than traditional brine operations, and water can be recycled in the process. White-Nockleby says some companies are also investigating how to pull lithium from old mine waste.
Miners haul sacks of cobalt ore at the Shabara mine near Kolwezi in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. JUNIOR KANNAH / AFP via Getty Images
Cobalt Mining
Democratic Republic of the Congo: Industrial mining of cobalt and copper for rechargeable batteries is leading to grievous human rights abuses..
Growing demand for so-called clean energy technologies has created a corresponding demand for certain metals, including copper, and cobalt, which is essential for making most lithium-ion batteries. These are used to power a wide range of devices including electric cars and mobile phones. The DRC has the world’s largest reserves of cobalt, and the seventh largest reserves of copper.
The average electric vehicle battery requires more than 13kg of cobalt, and a mobile phone battery about 7g. Demand for cobalt is expected to reach 222,000 tonnes by 2025, having tripled since 2010.
Donat Kambola, president of IBGDH, said: “People are being forcibly evicted, or threatened or intimidated into leaving their homes, or misled into consenting to derisory settlements. Often there was no grievance mechanism, accountability, or access to justice.”
Candy Ofime and Jean-Mobert Senga, Amnesty International researchers and co-authors of the report, said: “We found repeated breaches of legal safeguards prescribed in international human rights law and standards, and national legislation, as well as blatant disregard for the UN Guiding Principles on Business and Human Rights.”
To produce Powering Change or Business as Usual? Amnesty International and IBGDH interviewed more than 130 people at six different mining projects in and around the city of Kolwezi, in the southern province of Lualaba, during two separate visits in 2022.
You can only see the point if you take your head out your arse. All these things were mined using slavery and terrible working conditions long before EV's were even thought of. So what has changed to make you so wish to raise this issue now? Nothing has, you just saw another chance to say something bad about EV's You care not a jot, you are a fake. If you removed your head from your arse you would know that cobalt and litheum used for mobile phones is a mere 7grams per battery cobalt and litheum used ina battery for an an EV uses 137 kilos of cobalt and litheum per battery There is nothing good about EV's FFS so stop trying to state otherwise.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 17, 2024 8:10:23 GMT
You are not following, I will try an analogy. We accept several thousand deaths every year as part and parcel of our having freedom to drive. If government decides that due to brake pad wear pollution we can only use brakes to a limited extent to cut down wear during each braking event, this however is slightly less efficient braking and may lead to an increase in deaths. That is an artificial imposition beyond supply and demand and the government is responsible for any increase in deaths. Definitely not getting you Sandy. I thought my reply that the demand for Lithium is now global and therefore any conditions the EU could apply or any reduction in the EU's demand would have little effect. How do you think they can effect conditions in these mines, and more importantly from the point of view of this conversation why do you think your concerns should only apply to Lithium and not Copper, Gold, Chromium, Platinum, Cobalt, Etc. The point is I, and we, accept a certain amount of injustice and pain in the world to live the lifestyles we wish, largely becasue there is little we can do about it other than stop using whatever it is that is causing those injustices which 'we' in the overall sense will not do. We are now being forced to move to new technology, not because we wish to, although some may, but because our government is creating a situation that is forcing us to. The government is forcing me, and many of we, to create a demand for that which we do not want and bringing about unjust human and environmental conditions for many, over and above those we already accept. We could stop the existence of those conditions for that product almost immediately and have little effect on the lifestyles we lead but for people like yourself who believe that we have to follow certain specific policies in order to follow a dubious science and cult like belief that brooks no arguments or dissent but adopts a higher moral stance of the need of a greater good and obfuscates its lies and errors in science that is almost as far from any scientific method you can get.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 17, 2024 8:11:55 GMT
2% comes from Africa.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 17, 2024 8:12:32 GMT
Cobalt is no longer favoured for lithium batteries, as in LCM lithium-cobalt-manganese. Most manufacturers including all of the Chinese have moved on to LFP lithium-ferro-phosphate batteries which besides solving ethical concerns has other merits including the elimination of thermal runaway i.e. battery fires.
Tesla was one of the last hold-outs but now that their cell manufacturer, Panasonic, has switched they are phasing out LCM as well. The first Tesla product with the LFP technology was the Powerwall 3 which was released in 2024. The cars will be following suit.
So there's little call anymore for the crocodile tears from the Luddites and ignoramuses over child slave labour in the Congo.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 17, 2024 8:16:36 GMT
Cobalt is no longer favoured for lithium batteries, as in LCM lithium-cobalt-manganese. Most manufacturers including all of the Chinese have moved on to LFP lithium-ferro-phosphate batteries which besides solving ethical concerns has other merits including the elimination of thermal runaway i.e. battery fires. Tesla was one of the last hold-outs but now that their cell manufacturer, Panasonic, has switched they are phasing out LCM as well. The first Tesla product with the LFP technology was the Powerwall 3 which was released in 2024. The cars will be following suit. So there's little call anymore for the crocodile tears from the Luddites and ignoramuses over child slave labour in the Congo. Bit unfair there Dan as regards crocodile tears, as I said we accept that there is injustice but we should not be a party to creating more in an artificial manner especially if it cast as a moral stance.
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Post by jonksy on Nov 17, 2024 8:17:33 GMT
Cobalt is no longer favoured for lithium batteries, as in LCM lithium-cobalt-manganese. Most manufacturers including all of the Chinese have moved on to LFP lithium-ferro-phosphate batteries which besides solving ethical concerns has other merits including the elimination of thermal runaway i.e. battery fires. Tesla was one of the last hold-outs but now that their cell manufacturer, Panasonic, has switched they are phasing out LCM as well. The first Tesla product with the LFP technology was the Powerwall 3 which was released in 2024. The cars will be following suit. So there's little call anymore for the crocodile tears from the Luddites and ignoramuses over child slave labour in the Congo. Cobalt has not been phased out in the production of litheum. And Litheum mining comes with all the negative envirimental damage.
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Post by jonksy on Nov 17, 2024 8:19:21 GMT
2% comes from Africa. We all know where it is mined FFS what does that add to you excusing the damage done to the enviroment by the mining of litheum?
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Post by zanygame on Nov 17, 2024 8:20:01 GMT
Cobalt is no longer favoured for lithium batteries, as in LCM lithium-cobalt-manganese. Most manufacturers including all of the Chinese have moved on to LFP lithium-ferro-phosphate batteries which besides solving ethical concerns has other merits including the elimination of thermal runaway i.e. battery fires. Tesla was one of the last hold-outs but now that their cell manufacturer, Panasonic, has switched they are phasing out LCM as well. The first Tesla product with the LFP technology was the Powerwall 3 which was released in 2024. The cars will be following suit. So there's little call anymore for the crocodile tears from the Luddites and ignoramuses over child slave labour in the Congo. I expect the slave labour in Africa will continue long after this issue as it ran long before this issue.
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Post by jonksy on Nov 17, 2024 8:22:40 GMT
Cobalt is no longer favoured for lithium batteries, as in LCM lithium-cobalt-manganese. Most manufacturers including all of the Chinese have moved on to LFP lithium-ferro-phosphate batteries which besides solving ethical concerns has other merits including the elimination of thermal runaway i.e. battery fires. Tesla was one of the last hold-outs but now that their cell manufacturer, Panasonic, has switched they are phasing out LCM as well. The first Tesla product with the LFP technology was the Powerwall 3 which was released in 2024. The cars will be following suit. So there's little call anymore for the crocodile tears from the Luddites and ignoramuses over child slave labour in the Congo. I expect the slave labour in Africa will continue long after this issue as it ran long before this issue. Oh well that's OK then...I wonder who the real luddites are that Dan mentioned?
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Post by zanygame on Nov 17, 2024 8:33:54 GMT
Definitely not getting you Sandy. I thought my reply that the demand for Lithium is now global and therefore any conditions the EU could apply or any reduction in the EU's demand would have little effect. How do you think they can effect conditions in these mines, and more importantly from the point of view of this conversation why do you think your concerns should only apply to Lithium and not Copper, Gold, Chromium, Platinum, Cobalt, Etc. The point is I, and we, accept a certain amount of injustice and pain in the world to live the lifestyles we wish, largely becasue there is little we can do about it other than stop using whatever it is that is causing those injustices which 'we' in the overall sense will not do. We are now being forced to move to new technology, not because we wish to, although some may, but because our government is creating a situation that is forcing us to. The government is forcing me, and many of we, to create a demand for that which we do not want and bringing about unjust human and environmental conditions for many, over and above those we already accept. We could stop the existence of those conditions for that product almost immediately and have little effect on the lifestyles we lead but for people like yourself who believe that we have to follow certain specific policies in order to follow a dubious science and cult like belief that brooks no arguments or dissent but adopts a higher moral stance of the need of a greater good and obfuscates its lies and errors in science that is almost as far from any scientific method you can get. So you want the choice on which injustices you support. And are you happy with the injustices involved in making mobile phones and technology we desire. Are you happy with the injustices caused by AGW?
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Post by zanygame on Nov 17, 2024 8:37:23 GMT
Cobalt is no longer favoured for lithium batteries, as in LCM lithium-cobalt-manganese. Most manufacturers including all of the Chinese have moved on to LFP lithium-ferro-phosphate batteries which besides solving ethical concerns has other merits including the elimination of thermal runaway i.e. battery fires. Tesla was one of the last hold-outs but now that their cell manufacturer, Panasonic, has switched they are phasing out LCM as well. The first Tesla product with the LFP technology was the Powerwall 3 which was released in 2024. The cars will be following suit. So there's little call anymore for the crocodile tears from the Luddites and ignoramuses over child slave labour in the Congo. Cobalt has not been phased out in the production of litheum. And Litheum mining comes with all the negative envirimental damage. Most lithium comes from Australia where open cast coal mining caused environmental damage. Though when you look at the areas of land involved compared to the size of country they are not likely to have major effects. Same with Lithium.
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Post by Rebirth on Nov 17, 2024 8:54:40 GMT
The point is I, and we, accept a certain amount of injustice and pain in the world to live the lifestyles we wish, largely becasue there is little we can do about it other than stop using whatever it is that is causing those injustices which 'we' in the overall sense will not do. We are now being forced to move to new technology, not because we wish to, although some may, but because our government is creating a situation that is forcing us to. The government is forcing me, and many of we, to create a demand for that which we do not want and bringing about unjust human and environmental conditions for many, over and above those we already accept. We could stop the existence of those conditions for that product almost immediately and have little effect on the lifestyles we lead but for people like yourself who believe that we have to follow certain specific policies in order to follow a dubious science and cult like belief that brooks no arguments or dissent but adopts a higher moral stance of the need of a greater good and obfuscates its lies and errors in science that is almost as far from any scientific method you can get. So you want the choice on which injustices you support. And are you happy with the injustices involved in making mobile phones and technology we desire. Are you happy with the injustices caused by AGW? Perhaps Sandy is attempting to address the negatives which you don't appear to even acknowledge. It's understandable that he would try, considering we're being bombarded with propaganda with obvious potential for huge profit. If he was using his personal selfish desires as his moral compass then I would find that rather distasteful.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 17, 2024 8:56:25 GMT
So you want the choice on which injustices you support. And are you happy with the injustices involved in making mobile phones and technology we desire. Are you happy with the injustices caused by AGW? Perhaps Sandy is attempting to address the negatives which you don't appear to even acknowledge. It's understandable that he would try, considering we're being bombarded with propaganda with obvious potential for huge profit. If he was using his personal selfish desires as his moral compass then I would find that rather distasteful. I'll let him answer.
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Post by Rebirth on Nov 17, 2024 9:10:39 GMT
Perhaps Sandy is attempting to address the negatives which you don't appear to even acknowledge. It's understandable that he would try, considering we're being bombarded with propaganda with obvious potential for huge profit. If he was using his personal selfish desires as his moral compass then I would find that rather distasteful. I'll let him answer. He has already made his argument. You simply waved your arms around and dismissed it, in what I believe was an attempt to obscure the growing number of flaws in your position.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 17, 2024 9:15:17 GMT
He has already made his argument. You simply waved your arms around and dismissed it, in what I believe was an attempt to obscure the growing number of flaws in your position. I'll let him answer. I value his opinion.
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