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Post by thomas on Nov 13, 2024 16:29:26 GMT
The only real bone of contention in the conversation is whether or not it is wise to ban / forcibly discontinue Ic cars I suspect the current ban will be reviewed. either labour or a new government in future will kick it down the road , or it will be quietly dropped . |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 13, 2024 16:41:54 GMT
The Luddites destroyed that which was causing a specific disadvantage to them, to most people there is no advantage in having an electric car, for many it is currently a disadvantage but they are being effectively forced down the EV car route and in many ways are having to pay for the privilege. I've made it clear many times, I do not believe forcing people is the right way to go. I believe this country must get its shit together. To start with it must pack up the teaching of all the woke nonsense in schools and improve the population's understanding of STEM subjects. For every 12m it takes to teach a student part of a maths, physics, engineering course, we must accelerate that to 9 months so each year the students get cumulatively further ahead, all the way from the primary school to graduation.
Now once we have an educated population the rest should follow automatically via the market, but the market will fail if the participants are stupid, which is what they are at the moment. The Luddites were the uneducated mob. Another word for that in today's speak is ironically a political cread called populism. The mob do not know best. We must restore confidence in those who are educated. We must defer to authority, and authority needs to be very intelligent and skilled in making the right decisions. The two go hand in hand. We in this country have allowed corruption to proliferate. We are acquiring all the traits of a Third World country. It's a combination of stupid, corrupt, violent, mental, self destructive, Marxist, envious of the rich and successful and bone idle.
If we were not being forced then ICE cars would fade out a natural death, but they are not, they are being extinguished by legislation, punitive measures against selling ICE cars and unfavourable taxation. Luddites were educated enough to know that their jobs were the jobs disappearing with the new technology and their future prospects were at best bleak. We may not be in the same category but the freedoms afforded by ICE are what are being curtailed and EVs are the government approved replacements and as yet are not up to the requirements, or prices, of the ordinary citizen. That is not Ludditism that is 'being shit upon from a great height and I do not like itism' |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 13, 2024 18:06:27 GMT
So had a look at the website - the wall mounted chargers are 500kw. So the main place where you need 5 minute charging is on service areas on motorways. So say you have 20 chargers - you need a power supply from the grid of 10MW. Which is the same as supplying 10,000 homes. This is on each motorway services and for each normal petrol station it will be 5MW. Somehow I cannot see how this is remotely feasible. It's not that difficult. You need fatter cables and/or higher voltages. China has lines running hundreds of miles in excess of 10GW. I thought the selling point of EV's was that they were cheaper - upgrading the entire grid will cost eye-watering amounts of money |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 13, 2024 18:14:08 GMT
I've made it clear many times, I do not believe forcing people is the right way to go. I believe this country must get its shit together. To start with it must pack up the teaching of all the woke nonsense in schools and improve the population's understanding of STEM subjects. For every 12m it takes to teach a student part of a maths, physics, engineering course, we must accelerate that to 9 months so each year the students get cumulatively further ahead, all the way from the primary school to graduation.
Now once we have an educated population the rest should follow automatically via the market, but the market will fail if the participants are stupid, which is what they are at the moment. The Luddites were the uneducated mob. Another word for that in today's speak is ironically a political cread called populism. The mob do not know best. We must restore confidence in those who are educated. We must defer to authority, and authority needs to be very intelligent and skilled in making the right decisions. The two go hand in hand. We in this country have allowed corruption to proliferate. We are acquiring all the traits of a Third World country. It's a combination of stupid, corrupt, violent, mental, self destructive, Marxist, envious of the rich and successful and bone idle.
If we were not being forced then ICE cars would fade out a natural death, but they are not, they are being extinguished by legislation, punitive measures against selling ICE cars and unfavourable taxation. Luddites were educated enough to know that their jobs were the jobs disappearing with the new technology and their future prospects were at best bleak. We may not be in the same category but the freedoms afforded by ICE are what are being curtailed and EVs are the government approved replacements and as yet are not up to the requirements, or prices, of the ordinary citizen. That is not Ludditism that is 'being shit upon from a great height and I do not like itism' It is very sad because by forcing people it suggests to them that the choice is a bad one. That really is not a good thing for sales. What I might be tempted to do if I were the government is provide a subsidy. The reason is ICE cars are noisy and give out pollution, and that destroys people and buildings. For the market to work, one needs to factor in all costs and set it neutral. ICE cars are dying now. It is suicidal for a car firm to invest billions in a new ICE car or do research into improving them. They should let people keep their ICE cars if they want. Some will break down and get chucked in a few years and some will be classics that will be restored. It's important to have classics as a reminder of our heritage so I'm not against that. The important thing is the bulk will be electric. Petrol stations will become less common too. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 13, 2024 18:15:42 GMT
It's not that difficult. You need fatter cables and/or higher voltages. China has lines running hundreds of miles in excess of 10GW. I thought the selling point of EV's was that they were cheaper - upgrading the entire grid will cost eye-watering amounts of money We will have to get lessons off the Chinese on how to do it cheaply. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 13, 2024 18:15:51 GMT
No, its your total knowledge on EV's No research, no links, no evidence, just rubbish.Though in fairness sometime its Bollocks. FFS yoi openly ignore any links you are given zany and just keep pouring out your same old nut job mantra which you get second hand from the doom goblin. No I read them all. Have you ever given one. Preferably one you've actually read yourself. For the most part the clowns on here offer nothing but, that wont work Its rubbish Its a Net zero wet dream Bollocks and rubbish. You rely almost exclusively on having how things work explained to you by other posters and reward them by sneering. Not sure what joy that brings you, but it clearly does. What a sad empty life you must have. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 13, 2024 18:25:18 GMT
FFS yoi openly ignore any links you are given zany and just keep pouring out your same old nut job mantra which you get second hand from the doom goblin. No I read them all. Have you ever given one. Preferably one you've actually read yourself. For the most part the clowns on here offer nothing but, that wont work Its rubbish Its a Net zero wet dream Bollocks and rubbish. You rely almost exclusively on having how things work explained to you by other posters and reward them by sneering. Not sure what joy that brings you, but it clearly does. What a sad empty life you must have. we aren't the ones claiming to be posting from Gran Canaria on holiday ,while accusing the forum members of leading sad lives. Talk about a fucking lack of awareness zany. plenty of pertinent points have been raise regarding EVs throughout this thread by many forum members , and generally you have ignored them , or given some waffling reply that doesn't address the concern In the post. |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 13, 2024 18:31:27 GMT
FFS yoi openly ignore any links you are given zany and just keep pouring out your same old nut job mantra which you get second hand from the doom goblin. No I read them all. Have you ever given one. Preferably one you've actually read yourself. For the most part the clowns on here offer nothing but, that wont work Its rubbish Its a Net zero wet dream Bollocks and rubbish. You rely almost exclusively on having how things work explained to you by other posters and reward them by sneering. Not sure what joy that brings you, but it clearly does. What a sad empty life you must have. Dozens. You do talk some claptrap zany. And I have a great life. And am happy with my lot. And I can go to bed at night and ponder on what objects and how they work have been explained to me by a second rate chippy. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 13, 2024 18:36:01 GMT
For your argument to work you assume that there are a constant stream of cars. You assume the chargers don't continue charging while filling your battery You assume everyone arrives with a completely flat battery You assume no time for one car to move away and another to take its place. No. I'm not making any of those assumptions. I understand the concept. The fact that it takes an hour to refuel a car acts as a kind of rationing - it makes it more feasible. Take away that limit and you hit a problem further up the chain. In this case the limiting factor is likely to be gigantic expense of a battery system that can comfortably deliver ~ 10 megawatts and has significant capacity. Of course i am making one preposterous assumption you didn't mention - that the battery tech is as advertised in the conversation.It is 99.9% certain this is not the case. The weirdest assumption you are making is that it can't be done while looking at pictures of it being done. You have addressed none of the things I have informed you of. And your argument back is that it causes problems further up the chain, whatever vagary that refers to. Fuck knows where you got 10 megawatts from. that's about 200 to 400 cars per giant battery without them charging up between each one. God know how busy this station is going to be. A petrol station costs a huge amount of money as does delivering petrol to it and delivering it safely to the car. As for scale the largest battery in the world currently supplies 250,000 homes. A 1,000 kwh battery which would charge 25 to 50 cars a go costs about a 100k. How much do you think a petrol pump costs? Do such batteries exist. Yes. Maybe you can be a little less vague in your put downs. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 13, 2024 18:41:00 GMT
No I read them all. Have you ever given one. Preferably one you've actually read yourself. For the most part the clowns on here offer nothing but, that wont work Its rubbish Its a Net zero wet dream Bollocks and rubbish. You rely almost exclusively on having how things work explained to you by other posters and reward them by sneering. Not sure what joy that brings you, but it clearly does. What a sad empty life you must have. Dozens. You do talk some claptrap zany. And I have a great life. And am happy with my lot. And I can go to bed at night and ponder on what objects and how they work have been explained to me by a second rate chippy. The fact you're happy being an arse says you are not happy at all. I was once told the punishment for being an arse is being an arse. Where everything is bad, no good, angering. Bad government, bad tax, bad immigration, bad laws, bad doctors, bad neighbours, bad bosses, bad luck, bad tempered. How unhappy you must be. |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 13, 2024 18:41:54 GMT
No. I'm not making any of those assumptions. I understand the concept. The fact that it takes an hour to refuel a car acts as a kind of rationing - it makes it more feasible. Take away that limit and you hit a problem further up the chain. In this case the limiting factor is likely to be gigantic expense of a battery system that can comfortably deliver ~ 10 megawatts and has significant capacity. Of course i am making one preposterous assumption you didn't mention - that the battery tech is as advertised in the conversation.It is 99.9% certain this is not the case. The weirdest assumption you are making is that it can't be done while looking at pictures of it being done. You have addressed none of the things I have informed you of. And your argument back is that it causes problems further up the chain, whatever vagary that refers to. Fuck knows where you got 10 megawatts from. that's about 200 to 400 cars per giant battery without them charging up between each one. God know how busy this station is going to be. A petrol station costs a huge amount of money as does delivering petrol to it and delivering it safely to the car. As for scale the largest battery in the world currently supplies 250,000 homes. A 1,000 kwh battery which would charge 25 to 50 cars a go costs about a 100k. How much do you think a petrol pump costs? Do such batteries exist. Yes. Maybe you can be a little less vague in your put downs. Thats MULTIPLE batteries FFS
On average, a UK petrol station uses around 15,000 kilowatt hours (kWh) of electricity per month. This is equivalent to about 5 kWh per pump per hour of operation. For example, a station with four pumps that's open for 10 hours a day would use around 200 kWh per day.
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Post by jonksy on Nov 13, 2024 18:43:37 GMT
Dozens. You do talk some claptrap zany. And I have a great life. And am happy with my lot. And I can go to bed at night and ponder on what objects and how they work have been explained to me by a second rate chippy. . I was once told the punishment for being an arse is being an arse. Where everything is bad, no good, angering. Bad government, bad tax, bad immigration, bad laws, bad doctors, bad neighbours, bad bosses, bad luck, bad tempered. How unhappy you must be. Says the arse who has to go halfway round the globe to get his end away.. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 13, 2024 18:54:27 GMT
I thought the selling point of EV's was that they were cheaper - upgrading the entire grid will cost eye-watering amounts of money We will have to get lessons off the Chinese on how to do it cheaply. Slave labour? |
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Post by Orac on Nov 13, 2024 19:35:47 GMT
No. I'm not making any of those assumptions. I understand the concept. The fact that it takes an hour to refuel a car acts as a kind of rationing - it makes it more feasible. Take away that limit and you hit a problem further up the chain. In this case the limiting factor is likely to be gigantic expense of a battery system that can comfortably deliver ~ 10 megawatts and has significant capacity. Of course i am making one preposterous assumption you didn't mention - that the battery tech is as advertised in the conversation.It is 99.9% certain this is not the case. The weirdest assumption you are making is that it can't be done while looking at pictures of it being done. You have addressed none of the things I have informed you of. And your argument back is that it causes problems further up the chain, whatever vagary that refers to. Fuck knows where you got 10 megawatts from. that's about 200 to 400 cars per giant battery without them charging up between each one. God know how busy this station is going to be. A petrol station costs a huge amount of money as does delivering petrol to it and delivering it safely to the car. As for scale the largest battery in the world currently supplies 250,000 homes. A 1,000 kwh battery which would charge 25 to 50 cars a go costs about a 100k. How much do you think a petrol pump costs? Do such batteries exist. Yes. Maybe you can be a little less vague in your put downs. The ~ 10 megawatt figure came from a 75kwh battery being charged in 5 minutes (~ 1 megawatt). I simply multiplied this number by 10 to come up for the power demand of 10 cars being charged at once (10 megawatts). That's a significant load. The battery solution would need to be able to supply this happily and regularly and have far more capacity than merely 10 cars. If it helps, i agree that the largest battery in the world would be able to manage this. |
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Post by Rebirth on Nov 13, 2024 19:39:15 GMT
We will have to get lessons off the Chinese on how to do it cheaply. Slave labour? Child slavery is economically viable and tolerable. The west are OK with it. If it wasn't then there'd be more sanctions and trade boycotts, right? |
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