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Post by Orac on Nov 13, 2024 11:27:37 GMT
Then you hit 'several cars' plus 1. To avoid this you might consider rationing the previous cars. It's the same problem - though undoubtedly it would help with the lumpiness. This system effectively becomes your means of rationing. For your argument to work you assume that there are a constant stream of cars. You assume the chargers don't continue charging while filling your battery You assume everyone arrives with a completely flat battery You assume no time for one car to move away and another to take its place. No. I'm not making any of those assumptions. I understand the concept. The fact that it takes an hour to refuel a car acts as a kind of rationing - it makes it more feasible. Take away that limit and you hit a problem further up the chain. In this case the limiting factor is likely to be gigantic expense of a battery system that can comfortably deliver ~ 10 megawatts and has significant capacity. Of course i am making one preposterous assumption you didn't mention - that the battery tech is as advertised in the conversation.It is 99.9% certain this is not the case. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 13, 2024 11:35:30 GMT
So had a look at the website - the wall mounted chargers are 500kw. So the main place where you need 5 minute charging is on service areas on motorways. So say you have 20 chargers - you need a power supply from the grid of 10MW. Which is the same as supplying 10,000 homes.
This is on each motorway services and for each normal petrol station it will be 5MW.
Somehow I cannot see how this is remotely feasible.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 13, 2024 11:47:09 GMT
So had a look at the website - the wall mounted chargers are 500kw. So the main place where you need 5 minute charging is on service areas on motorways. So say you have 20 chargers - you need a power supply from the grid of 10MW. Which is the same as supplying 10,000 homes. This is on each motorway services and for each normal petrol station it will be 5MW. Somehow I cannot see how this is remotely feasible. It's not that difficult. You need fatter cables and/or higher voltages. China has lines running hundreds of miles in excess of 10GW. |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 13, 2024 11:57:06 GMT
So had a look at the website - the wall mounted chargers are 500kw. So the main place where you need 5 minute charging is on service areas on motorways. So say you have 20 chargers - you need a power supply from the grid of 10MW. Which is the same as supplying 10,000 homes. This is on each motorway services and for each normal petrol station it will be 5MW. Somehow I cannot see how this is remotely feasible. It's not that difficult. You need fatter cables and/or higher voltages. China has lines running hundreds of miles in excess of 10GW. And all using electricity generated by mostly fossil fuels. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 13, 2024 12:05:32 GMT
So had a look at the website - the wall mounted chargers are 500kw. So the main place where you need 5 minute charging is on service areas on motorways. So say you have 20 chargers - you need a power supply from the grid of 10MW. Which is the same as supplying 10,000 homes. This is on each motorway services and for each normal petrol station it will be 5MW. Somehow I cannot see how this is remotely feasible. It's not that difficult. You need fatter cables and/or higher voltages. China has lines running hundreds of miles in excess of 10GW. Okay - so upgrade the grid just about everywhere. Who is paying for this multi-decade plan? the driver / the entire economy? What to do in the meantime? ..all rather disappointing considering we already have a perfectly adequate and working technology that solves the same problemAre we allowed to refuse your kind offer to kick ourselves in the balls for no reason? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 13, 2024 12:17:09 GMT
It's not that difficult. You need fatter cables and/or higher voltages. China has lines running hundreds of miles in excess of 10GW. Okay - so upgrade the grid just about everywhere. Who is paying for this multi-decade plan? the driver / the entire economy? What to do in the meantime? ..all rather disappointing considering we already have a perfectly adequate and working technology that solves the same problemAre we allowed to refuse your kind offer to kick ourselves in the balls for no reason? It's the Luddite view though. Which species stays where it is and never evolves? Understand the Red Queen hypothesis. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 13, 2024 12:23:59 GMT
Okay - so upgrade the grid just about everywhere. Who is paying for this multi-decade plan? the driver / the entire economy? What to do in the meantime? ..all rather disappointing considering we already have a perfectly adequate and working technology that solves the same problemAre we allowed to refuse your kind offer to kick ourselves in the balls for no reason? It's the Luddite view though. Which species stays where it is and never evolves? Understand the Red Queen hypothesis. You don't change things for change's sake., you change to gather an advantage. Stop being silly |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 13, 2024 13:53:25 GMT
Okay - so upgrade the grid just about everywhere. Who is paying for this multi-decade plan? the driver / the entire economy? What to do in the meantime? ..all rather disappointing considering we already have a perfectly adequate and working technology that solves the same problemAre we allowed to refuse your kind offer to kick ourselves in the balls for no reason? It's the Luddite view though. Which species stays where it is and never evolves? Understand the Red Queen hypothesis. The Luddites destroyed that which was causing a specific disadvantage to them, to most people there is no advantage in having an electric car, for many it is currently a disadvantage but they are being effectively forced down the EV car route and in many ways are having to pay for the privilege. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 13, 2024 14:25:14 GMT
It's the Luddite view though. Which species stays where it is and never evolves? Understand the Red Queen hypothesis. The Luddites destroyed that which was causing a specific disadvantage to them, to most people there is no advantage in having an electric car, for many it is currently a disadvantage but they are being effectively forced down the EV car route and in many ways are having to pay for the privilege. I've made it clear many times, I do not believe forcing people is the right way to go. I believe this country must get its shit together. To start with it must pack up the teaching of all the woke nonsense in schools and improve the population's understanding of STEM subjects. For every 12m it takes to teach a student part of a maths, physics, engineering course, we must accelerate that to 9 months so each year the students get cumulatively further ahead, all the way from the primary school to graduation.
Now once we have an educated population the rest should follow automatically via the market, but the market will fail if the participants are stupid, which is what they are at the moment. The Luddites were the uneducated mob. Another word for that in today's speak is ironically a political cread called populism. The mob do not know best. We must restore confidence in those who are educated. We must defer to authority, and authority needs to be very intelligent and skilled in making the right decisions. The two go hand in hand. We in this country have allowed corruption to proliferate. We are acquiring all the traits of a Third World country. It's a combination of stupid, corrupt, violent, mental, self destructive, Marxist, envious of the rich and successful and bone idle.
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Post by jonksy on Nov 13, 2024 14:27:52 GMT
The Luddites destroyed that which was causing a specific disadvantage to them, to most people there is no advantage in having an electric car, for many it is currently a disadvantage but they are being effectively forced down the EV car route and in many ways are having to pay for the privilege. I've made it clear many times, I do not believe forcing people is the right way to go. I believe this country must get its shit together. To start with it must pack up the teaching of all the woke nonsense in schools and improve the population's understanding of STEM subjects. For every 12m it takes to teach a student part of a maths, physics, engineering course, we must accelerate that to 9 months so each year the students get cumulatively further ahead, all the way from the primary school to graduation.
Now once we have an educated population the rest should follow automatically via the market, but the market will fail if the participants are stupid, which is what they are at the moment. The Luddites were the uneducated mob. Another word for that in today's speak is ironically a political cread called populism. The mob do not know best. We must restore confidence in those who are educated. We must defer to authority, and authority needs to be very intelligent and skilled in making the right decisions. The two go hand in hand. We in this country have allowed corruption to proliferate. We are acquiring all the traits of a Third World country. It's a combination of stupid, corrupt, violent, mental, self destructive, Marxist, envious of the rich and successful and bone idle.
Bur people are being forced Baron. There seems little free choice for the plebs these days and it is only getting worse.. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 13, 2024 14:32:26 GMT
The Luddites destroyed that which was causing a specific disadvantage to them, to most people there is no advantage in having an electric car, for many it is currently a disadvantage but they are being effectively forced down the EV car route and in many ways are having to pay for the privilege. I've made it clear many times, I do not believe forcing people is the right way to go.
....and yet , regarding EVs , you are on the same side as zany , who only yesterday on this forum triumphantly squealed about the government taking away our choice over EVs and forcing us to use them. Clearly this is someone who has lost the argument . Either intelligence and logic wins the day , or it doesn't in which case your compatriot zany wants to override logic with force. You aren't being consistent baron. You should address your point to zany . |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 13, 2024 14:46:16 GMT
I've made it clear many times, I do not believe forcing people is the right way to go. I believe this country must get its shit together. To start with it must pack up the teaching of all the woke nonsense in schools and improve the population's understanding of STEM subjects. For every 12m it takes to teach a student part of a maths, physics, engineering course, we must accelerate that to 9 months so each year the students get cumulatively further ahead, all the way from the primary school to graduation.
Now once we have an educated population the rest should follow automatically via the market, but the market will fail if the participants are stupid, which is what they are at the moment. The Luddites were the uneducated mob. Another word for that in today's speak is ironically a political cread called populism. The mob do not know best. We must restore confidence in those who are educated. We must defer to authority, and authority needs to be very intelligent and skilled in making the right decisions. The two go hand in hand. We in this country have allowed corruption to proliferate. We are acquiring all the traits of a Third World country. It's a combination of stupid, corrupt, violent, mental, self destructive, Marxist, envious of the rich and successful and bone idle.
Bur people are being forced Baron. There seems little free choice for the plebs these days and it is only getting worse.. I know and that is why it is so sad. What I'm concerned about is after they have forced their Shit-Brit® tech onto everyone then people are going to hate the whole idea of tech. We saw this with the post office. I had a look at the system they had fucked up. It was so run of the mill tech of that time it should have been easy to put it together, but seeing what actually happened shows you the reality of our governance. One day we will have to have a revolution I reckon. They will not go voluntarily. I guess we will have to do a Chinese on them. They got rid of their shitters some hundred years back. |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 13, 2024 14:54:26 GMT
Bur people are being forced Baron. There seems little free choice for the plebs these days and it is only getting worse.. What I'm concerned about is after they have forced their Shit-Brit® tech onto everyone then people are going to hate the whole idea of tech. We saw this with the post office. I had a look at the system they had fucked up. It was so run of the mill tech of that time it should have been easy to put it together, but seeing what actually happened shows you the reality of our governance. One day we will have to have a revolution I reckon. They will not go voluntarily. I guess we will have to do a Chinese on them. They got rid of their shitters some hundred years back. But you seem to align with zany you can't wear two heads at once.
People are being forced to use what they do not want that is painfully obvious to even the most ardent retard.
Oh don't the chinese crap anymore thats a new one..
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Post by Orac on Nov 13, 2024 15:17:16 GMT
The only real bone of contention in the conversation is whether or not it is wise to ban / forcibly discontinue Ic cars
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 13, 2024 15:28:17 GMT
I know and that is why it is so sad. What I'm concerned about is after they have forced their Shit-Brit® tech onto everyone then people are going to hate the whole idea of tech. We saw this with the post office. I had a look at the system they had fucked up. It was so run of the mill tech of that time it should have been easy to put it together, but seeing what actually happened shows you the reality of our governance. One day we will have to have a revolution I reckon. They will not go voluntarily. I guess we will have to do a Chinese on them. They got rid of their shitters some hundred years back. But you seem to align with zany you can't wear two heads at once.
People are being forced to use what they do not want that is painfully obvious to even the most ardent retard.
Oh don't the chinese crap anymore thats a new one..
They were known as the landlords in Mao's time. They basically made money off the back of exploiting others but never contributed anything themselves, so you can imagine the archetype landlord in today's Britain as the diversity officer on 200k a year for talking a bit of shit and sitting in a plush office with secretary. Whatever it is, it is someone somewhere who has got some big money without lifting a finger and looks down on the rest of us. Baroness Mone being a good specimen A exhibit of the type. Why China today is very opposite to our predicament has a great deal to do with an extermination programme back in the 50s, 60s and before. They rounded them all up. It was very ugly, but the end result was they got wiped out. They and their descendents ended as dodos. What is left is what we have now.
Nature is brutal, but looking back you would imagine the landlords might have been a bit smarter and seen it coming. The thing is I suspect they had the arrogance of our current government and its cronies, ignoring all the warning signs and where there is trouble, just clamping down further. At some point it just snaps.This country could snap and if it did there would not be any warning.
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