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Post by Orac on Nov 2, 2024 9:44:56 GMT
You can see this is not the underlying (foundational) reality by looking at Pac's graph - the public and private sector are both paying less because the economy overall is less productive. There is no real choice or surprise here - people have to get less if there is less produced. What is interesting is that persistent gap between public and private The public sector needs constant legislation to have something it can control; I am not sure it can be infinite, which is why they love the EU so much as a whole, it creates constant legislation on a daily basis. Yes - and it applies to government in general - the more complicated everything is the more their dominion and power expands. In the end you get a population that can't perform day-day tasks without hiring a team of lawyers and applying for a string of grants and licenses |
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Post by om15 on Nov 2, 2024 9:47:46 GMT
Wages will be depressed due to employer increased NI contributions, mortgage rates and interest rates will remain high, council taxes will increase, inflation will reduce disposable income and unemployment will increase, uncontrolled immigration will depress wages and net zero will finally grind the country to a standstill.
Let us know how you get on, I will be interested from my armchair.
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Post by Orac on Nov 2, 2024 9:52:31 GMT
Wages will be depressed due to employer increased NI contributions, mortgage rates and interest rates will remain high, council taxes will increase, inflation will reduce disposable income and unemployment will increase, uncontrolled immigration will depress wages and net zero will finally grind the country to a standstill. Let us know how you get on, I will be interested from my armchair. Just when it seems like things couldn't possibly get any worse, Starmer will announce that the UK will pay 2 Trillion in slavery reparations. His speech will emphasise that we are a 'responsible country' and we must all pull together to do 'do the right thing' The sound of coffin nails being hammered in |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 2, 2024 9:53:12 GMT
It depends on who you are and what your situation is. If you need to travel a lot as part of your business operation or need to commute by car to and from work, the fact that the expected hefty fuel duty increase did not happen is a major plus. If you are on low pay, especially if you are under 21, the big rises in minimum wages looks pretty hopeful to you as it does to me. Continuing to freeze thresholds though for another four years and claiming this as a virtue because they are not doing it for even longer, hits us all rather hard. There is hope that the extra money for infrastructure investment and for the NHS might start helping in due course, and that the planned overhaul of planning laws will kick start more housebuilding. And big reductions in the discount for right to buy are a positive because they were forcing social landlords to sell at a massive loss which made new social housing construction economically unfeasible. This had to change and offers hope to all those languishing on housing waiting lists. If you work in the public sector as some of my friends do, there is hope that your pay will not continue to be cut in real terms year on year and that the recruitment and retention crisis will begin to ease. So there is genuine hope for some, though probably not so much for you. As a minimum wage employer, the big minimum wage increase is going to be a concern for you especially when added to the large increases in employers' NI contributions. I have qualms about the wisdom of the latter for sure. Many employers will simply pass these costs on to their employees as lower pay rises or to their customers as higher prices. But minimum wage employers do not have lower pay rises as an option and risk losing too many customers if they raise prices. It would have been difficult to raise so much money in other ways, but at least some of it could have been raised by modest extra taxes on wealth, particularly immoveable assets like land or property. After all, whilst the average billionaire could easily move himself and his money out of the country, he would struggle to get his London penthouse or country mansion on a ship or a plane to transport elsewhere. I'll start with the ever repeated erroneous claim, that business will just pass costs on. This assumes we were not already charging the most the public are willing to pay. I assure you we are. But my concern is not about increased costs, Most of my staff are already paid more than the minimum wage because if you don't, you only get crap staff no one else wants. NI contributions are yet another tax put on businesses that have no vote or say, and again another tax not based on profit or your ability to pay. Business rates are returning in April, that's a big one for us, that went unnoticed. But all that pales into insignificance against SALES. If the public were feeling confident then we would be seeing sales begin to rise and the new taxes we are asked to find would be easily accommodated. What most business wants is a stable growing economy, far more than perks or tax cuts. I think it is fair to say that businesses will try to pass costs on. It is always a balance. When my retail premises rent went up I had to consider how to keep my income on an even keel. The bread and butter sellers had to stay the same as they were at a maximum but some of the more specialist items saw a rise. It was never easy and the market being fickle mad it doubly so. |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 2, 2024 9:54:38 GMT
Spot on. The rich want land prices kept high, its why we have daft planning rules like the green belt. We have 'daft planning rules like the green belt' otherwise the country would be a mish mash of houses and poorly laid out infrastructure. You only have to look at the Great West Road, the Kingston Bypass and the Guildford bypass northern end to see where a lack of planning rules resulted in ribbon development to the detriment of the countryside and to the houses and businesses now crowded along them. Every bypass which lacked the restrictions is now passing through urban areas. Why should our greenbelt become a concrete jungle just to house the unwanted criminals who turn up in rubber boats? |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 2, 2024 9:58:18 GMT
This is broadly true. But it wasn't the primary driver of real terms public sector pay cuts. That was driven by a desire to save money by paying less, regardless of productivity. But a growing recruitment and retention crisis arising directly from that has of course itself been hindering productivity, as experienced staff leave to be replaced by less experienced ones. In the end, you get what you pay for. You can see this is not the underlying (foundational) reality by looking at Pac's graph - the public and private sector are both paying less because the economy overall is less productive. There is no real choice or surprise here - people have to get less if there is less produced. What is interesting is that persistent gap between public and private In the private sector feel its a lack of hope that drives this, staff don't work hard because there's no point, they see no promotion, no better jobs, all talk is about cuts rather than expansion. In the public sector, working hard just means being given ever more to do for no personal benefit until you burn out. The good ones leave and the lazy stay, putting evermore pressure on the good ones who are left. This is in great part due to the huge difficulty public sector employers have in getting rid of useless staff (And believe me its hard enough in the private sector) Anecdote. We recently had a new member of staff who worked for two months then just stopped coming in, they would answer any communications, email, phone, whatsapp etc. So we gave up and employed someone new. Then we received an email from ACAS saying we had not followed proper procedure and owed this employee a week notice and must pay them this weeks notice. I pointed out the employee is supposed to work their weeks notice, but was told they might not have been able to and we did not establish this with them. I pointed out that it cost us a considerably amount of money to send a field manager to the site to cover their disappearance, but apparently this was not material |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 2, 2024 9:58:49 GMT
Unemployment will rise and the UK ecomy will tank as it always does under commie labour...
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Post by zanygame on Nov 2, 2024 10:00:23 GMT
Wages will be depressed due to employer increased NI contributions, mortgage rates and interest rates will remain high, council taxes will increase, inflation will reduce disposable income and unemployment will increase, uncontrolled immigration will depress wages and net zero will finally grind the country to a standstill. Let us know how you get on, I will be interested from my armchair. Its the flat economy that depresses wages, not VAT, NI hikes. Supply and demand. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 2, 2024 10:01:07 GMT
Unemployment will rise and the UK ecomy will tank as it always does under commie labour... And it was doing so well, what a shame. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 2, 2024 10:01:48 GMT
Wages will be depressed due to employer increased NI contributions, mortgage rates and interest rates will remain high, council taxes will increase, inflation will reduce disposable income and unemployment will increase, uncontrolled immigration will depress wages and net zero will finally grind the country to a standstill. Let us know how you get on, I will be interested from my armchair. Its the flat economy that depresses wages, not VAT, NI hikes. Supply and demand. taxes 'flatten' the economy |
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Post by piglet on Nov 2, 2024 10:08:26 GMT
A brilliant post zany. I worked in the NHS, its full of highly paid people doing the least possible, and some who havent a clue, before i retired i got such a person, his ignorance was amazing, and he was lazy, out to pick up the money for nothing. His wife had a baby, and he complained how awful the community nurse was, there was a problem. Did he conneect the two? that he was a pi s head? , doing thee same?. No.
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Post by jonksy on Nov 2, 2024 10:10:00 GMT
Unemployment will rise and the UK ecomy will tank as it always does under commie labour... And it was doing so well, what a shame. Well it was doing better until the labour shitshow got in. We virtually had full employment under the Tories..Plus the Tories had a pandemic, and an illegal invasion of the Ukraine plus rising fuel costs. But dont let the truth impair your vision zany. I wonder what size labours blackhole will be when they are kicked out? |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 2, 2024 10:10:05 GMT
Its the flat economy that depresses wages, not VAT, NI hikes. Supply and demand. taxes 'flatten' the economy Not IMO. I have never met an entrepreneur to considered taxes when setting up a business. They look at sales, customers, competition. As for the public, look at the polls, those earning good money consistently say they would be happy to pay more tax. Its the amount in your pocket that effects most peoples thinking. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 2, 2024 10:15:50 GMT
A brilliant post zany. I worked in the NHS, its full of highly paid people doing the least possible, and some who havent a clue, before i retired i got such a person, his ignorance was amazing, and he was lazy, out to pick up the money for nothing. His wife had a baby, and he complained how awful the community nurse was, there was a problem. Did he connect the two? that he was a pi s head? , doing thee same?. No. I recently spent 6 hours in our local hospital A and E with my mum. There were 6 staff on ward, standing around doing nothing. At one point the charge nurse asked in a loud voice, "Is there anyone here who knows how to connect the heart monitors to the patients" No one was. That's the issue, good trained staff leave, the qualification for new staff eventually becomes that you turn up for interview. So the number of staff on the ward is maintained to required level while none can actually do anything. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 2, 2024 10:18:28 GMT
Well you voted for it.
Enjoy.
How long before you start addressing the current reality. I already did: See above. |
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