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Post by ratcliff on Oct 31, 2024 18:29:33 GMT
That said, with underpaid public sector workers increasingly walking away, public services barely functional, there was a chronic need for more public investment and this does not come without costs.
Underpaid? Are you going for C2s mantel as the most non economically competent poster to give us a laugh at their abject financial naivety ? Train drivers on £60k for a 4 day week have just had a backdated £10k rise taking them to av £70k for a 4 day week and no concessions whatsoever on Spanish practices Junior doctors a 22% rise with no promise of working strike free Nurses still arguing about the mega pay rise they were offered Others a £300 daily bonus just for turning up Civil servants refusing to go into work and still collecting their (eg) London weighting allowances Gold plated pensions denied to those in the private sector 314 public new public sector jobs created every day Public sector productivity constantly falling - it's virually wholly unproductive etc etc etc Public sector spending should be severely curtailed - not increased The 2% ''saving'' Robber Reeves announced probably wouldn't even pay for teabags Government spending should be cut immediately by a minimum of 25% with the aim of a 50% cut over the life of this Parliament But you are ignoring the vast swathes of the public sector, me included, that endured a 10 year pay freeze. When I left my last job, I was earning 20% less in real terms than I was when I started. Which is why important sections of the public sector have a recruitment crisis. There must have been very significant benefits if you chose to ''endure'' a 10 year pay freeze and stay where you were in the unproductive public sector rather than seeking employment in the productive private sector . |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 31, 2024 18:57:35 GMT
But you are ignoring the vast swathes of the public sector, me included, that endured a 10 year pay freeze. When I left my last job, I was earning 20% less in real terms than I was when I started. Which is why important sections of the public sector have a recruitment crisis. There must have been very significant benefits if you chose to ''endure'' a 10 year pay freeze and stay where you were in the unproductive public sector rather than seeking employment in the productive private sector .
You assume that I'm typical and I'm far from it:
I was ten years off my pension. I was a supervisor at the top of my pay scale. I have other sources of income. I had no mortgage. And my wife has a well paid job.
So I could afford to say: "Fuck it" and sit it out until my earliest possible retirement date and my (admittedly decent) pension.
Not so my more junior colleagues who indeed left in droves and we still have a recruitment crisis to this day.
And the few new staff that we do get have no experience and leave as soon as they acquire some. And that affects the service that you receive.
And I say "We" because I am now back working part time for the same department, while being immune from the worst of the crap.
That's my price for my expertise. And you get excellent value from me.
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Post by andrewbrown on Oct 31, 2024 19:05:16 GMT
For those who think public sector workers are brilliantly paid, my friend started out in the DWP on an hourly rate less than a couple of quid higher than that which a Tesco shelf stacker gets. That she gets more than that now is due to her seeking and gaining promotion. And supposedly gold plated pensions are not set in stone if you have many working age decades left. Goalposts can be moved in that time. And the average 20 something is far more concerned about pay now than a decent pension in what seems to them still like a distant future. The Tesco worker has to work and produce a tangible result unlike public sector workers That's not just ignorant, as Squeezed points out, but also offensive. I've no idea where you got this from. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 31, 2024 19:13:41 GMT
The Tesco worker has to work and produce a tangible result unlike public sector workers That's not just ignorant, as Squeezed points out, but also offensive. I've no idea where you got this from. Neither, I suspect, does s/he.
If, as ratcliff implies, we get paid so much for sitting on our arses all day then why doesn't s/he apply?
After all, we have plenty of vacancies.  |
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Post by andrewbrown on Oct 31, 2024 19:38:12 GMT
(Although I think Ratcliffe is a she)
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 31, 2024 19:44:52 GMT
Edited. And apologies for any unintentional misgendering.
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Post by buccaneer on Oct 31, 2024 21:14:30 GMT
Most train drivers are not public sector workers. And yes some public sector workers higher up the scale - hospital consultants for example - are still relatively well paid. But many are not. And even those who are have seen real terms reductions in their pay which makes it less competitive in comparison to more lucrative offers elsewhere. The NHS in particular has been suffering from a severe recruitment and retention crisis which was approaching crisis point. And to a lesser extent other sectors have been too, eg schools and the civil service. One of my best friends works for the DWP and she has told me that the brightest and the best, unless promptly promoted as she has been lucky enough to have been, have been leaving in ever greater numbers, whilst the quality of many new applicants has sharply declined and they are struggling to recruit people of a sufficiently high calibre much more than they used to, and making do with poorer quality recruits because they have to. This is telling in the fact that the DWP is now losing five times more money as a result of errors than they are in actual fraud. Another friend works for the probation service and that is utterly on its knees. You cant keep imposing year on year real terms pay cuts without creating such problems eventually, at least not for jobs requiring some level of professional experience as many public sector roles do.. Reversing direction was a financial and social necessity. Because had we continued the way we were going, we'd have been hit with far higher social and financial costs before too long. Fire a third of all public sector workers and make the rest actually work - not shirk as at present Public sector productivity might then increase Agree. I've worked in the public sector and see swathes of money wasted on shirkers. It's bordering on criminal. Trim the fat and wastage, up productivity. This poor, undproductive methodology wouldn't survive a week in the private sector. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2024 21:26:57 GMT
For those who think public sector workers are brilliantly paid, my friend started out in the DWP on an hourly rate less than a couple of quid higher than that which a Tesco shelf stacker gets. That she gets more than that now is due to her seeking and gaining promotion. And supposedly gold plated pensions are not set in stone if you have many working age decades left. Goalposts can be moved in that time. And the average 20 something is far more concerned about pay now than a decent pension in what seems to them still like a distant future. The Tesco worker has to work and produce a tangible result unlike public sector workers You are talking utter drivel. Every worker has to produce tangible results. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2024 21:33:38 GMT
Fire a third of all public sector workers and make the rest actually work - not shirk as at present Public sector productivity might then increase Agree. I've worked in the public sector and see swathes of money wasted on shirkers. It's bordering on criminal. Trim the fat and wastage, up productivity. This poor, undproductive methodology wouldn't survive a week in the private sector. Wait, you want to sack a third of all nurses and doctors, a third of all teachers, a third of all probation officers and social workers and DWP employees, and make the rest work harder? As someone who includes two very hard working public sector workers amongst my friends I know you are talking shite. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 31, 2024 21:59:50 GMT
The Tesco worker has to work and produce a tangible result unlike public sector workers You are talking utter drivel. Every worker has to produce tangible results. What sanction does a Government department get when it provides poor service - after all it's customers cannot go elsewhere. As an instance take HMRC where the service is dire - what happens to the workers there? |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 31, 2024 22:11:33 GMT
Nigel's comments on the budget, is he right?
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Post by andrewbrown on Oct 31, 2024 22:17:47 GMT
You are talking utter drivel. Every worker has to produce tangible results. What sanction does a Government department get when it provides poor service - after all it's customers cannot go elsewhere. As an instance take HMRC where the service is dire - what happens to the workers there? Why are you making the assumption that because somewhere is providing bad service levels that it's the fault of the staff? |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 31, 2024 22:39:17 GMT
What sanction does a Government department get when it provides poor service - after all it's customers cannot go elsewhere. As an instance take HMRC where the service is dire - what happens to the workers there? Why are you making the assumption that because somewhere is providing bad service levels that it's the fault of the staff? Who is it the fault of?. If Boots provides bad service then who suffers when its customers go elsewhere? |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 1, 2024 0:31:52 GMT
Could be to do with structure, could be to do with systems, could be to do with processes, or could be to do with direction or management. In fact I'd say that the staff is probably the least likely. If Boots provides bad service then who suffers when its customers go elsewhere? Well yes, but I'm not sure of the logical association with blame? |
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Post by ratcliff on Nov 1, 2024 0:57:50 GMT
The Tesco worker has to work and produce a tangible result unlike public sector workers That's not just ignorant, as Squeezed points out, but also offensive. I've no idea where you got this from. Eh? Touched a nerve have I? A Tesco shelf stacker produces a product , a tangible stacked shelf full of produce for the customer to select from and is taxed on their wages to fund the average public sector worker who produces nothing tangible and contributes nothing of their own to the national pot . |
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