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Post by zanygame on Dec 16, 2022 19:42:27 GMT
Possibly, if we keep on making the rich richer and the poor poorer. You do realise that is the problem in South Africa, not the colour of peoples skin? Says who? I didn't make any assumptions on "why" the situation in SA is the way it is - I just pointed out a generalised fact. In the example I gave (of the village/town that I live in with virtually zero crime except that coming from outside) there are also very wide variations in how well off people are. There are multi-million houses and there are "affordable" houses and there are the very rich and the very poor. They still don't commit crime. I'm afraid this old chestnut that crime is caused by poverty has been widely discredited. Says me. But also study after study shows the link between the wealth gap, lack of opportunity and crime. I don't think you can use a single village as an accurate measure. From memory I think the figure is that poor people are 8 times more likely to commit crime than rich people. (Median) |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 16, 2022 19:44:56 GMT
LOL, I know, it's hilarious. Sometimes I think that's happened to Zany and he's never recovered. Ooh you are funny. Well done. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 16, 2022 19:48:40 GMT
They rest of Africa varies significantly and is immaterial as each has its own history assets etc. I have no idea what you are talking about. I certainly hasn't anything to do with what I say. The people not having the wheel very soon have them. But your analogy is ridiculous as it involves equal numbers from two societies suddenly mixing. Reality is that a minority from the wheel less society join the wheeled society and quickly adapt. But my point is that such a society has a broad range of inadequacies when compared to (say) a European nation. No industrialisation, no established bussiness, no established bussiness class, no established managerial class, no technical class, no military class that means squat. These are things that can take centuries to build up and are not just artefacts or technologies - they are intergenerational societal institutions and ways of thinking that allow society to function at a high level. The wheel was only used as an example to show how profound this gap is. You perform the magic trick of calculating that, because one of these groups seem to be at a 'disadvantage', some form of crime must be being committed by the high functioning society sharing territory. You calculate that the disadvantage is a contrivance created by the functioning society, rather than a function of its relative advantages. You have even taken things a significant step further into lunacy - having reached your absurd, over-extended conclusion, you then decide to take it upon yourself to exact various forms race revenge and 'race correction' on the members of your target society, whose only crime, as far as I can see, is being in the vicinity of your supposed victims. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 16, 2022 21:46:37 GMT
How can you be "certain" of any aspect of it when you have "no idea" what is being talked about? This is logicality contradictory. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 16, 2022 21:56:11 GMT
How can you be "certain" of any aspect of it when you have "no idea" what is being talked about? This is logicality contradictory. Thanks Baron, what would we do without you. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 17, 2022 8:38:28 GMT
Says who? I didn't make any assumptions on "why" the situation in SA is the way it is - I just pointed out a generalised fact. In the example I gave (of the village/town that I live in with virtually zero crime except that coming from outside) there are also very wide variations in how well off people are. There are multi-million houses and there are "affordable" houses and there are the very rich and the very poor. They still don't commit crime. I'm afraid this old chestnut that crime is caused by poverty has been widely discredited. Says me. But also study after study shows the link between the wealth gap, lack of opportunity and crime. I don't think you can use a single village as an accurate measure. From memory I think the figure is that poor people are 8 times more likely to commit crime than rich people. (Median) Classic ignorance - conflation of correlation with cause. We get it all the time nowadays. It's called pseudo science. There's no causal link ever been demonstrated between poverty and crime. And there are so many cofactors that you're spoilt for choice. For example people who can't read tend to be over-represented in crime, and people who can't read tend to be poorer than those who can. Et cetera. |
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Post by Toreador on Dec 17, 2022 8:47:54 GMT
Says me. But also study after study shows the link between the wealth gap, lack of opportunity and crime. I don't think you can use a single village as an accurate measure. From memory I think the figure is that poor people are 8 times more likely to commit crime than rich people. (Median) Classic ignorance - conflation of correlation with cause. We get it all the time nowadays. It's called pseudo science. There's no causal link ever been demonstrated between poverty and crime. And there are so many cofactors that you're spoilt for choice. For example people who can't read tend to be over-represented in crime, and people who can't read tend to be poorer than those who can. Et cetera. I suspect the type of crime will differ between rich and poor. |
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Post by Orac on Dec 17, 2022 8:53:39 GMT
Says me. But also study after study shows the link between the wealth gap, lack of opportunity and crime. I don't think you can use a single village as an accurate measure. From memory I think the figure is that poor people are 8 times more likely to commit crime than rich people. (Median) Classic ignorance - conflation of correlation with cause. We get it all the time nowadays. It's called pseudo science. There's no causal link ever been demonstrated between poverty and crime. And there are so many cofactors that you're spoilt for choice. For example people who can't read tend to be over-represented in crime, and people who can't read tend to be poorer than those who can. Et cetera. The notion that poverty significantly causes criminality has simply been repeated and repeated until it has been accepted by many lazy people as 'unarguable fact'. You are right to label this pseudo science. However, there is a causal link between criminality and poverty in that criminality quite obviously causes poverty. This relationship between poverty and criminality is in plain view and indisputable, but is rarely discussed by the left. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 17, 2022 8:57:33 GMT
Says me. But also study after study shows the link between the wealth gap, lack of opportunity and crime. I don't think you can use a single village as an accurate measure. From memory I think the figure is that poor people are 8 times more likely to commit crime than rich people. (Median) Classic ignorance - conflation of correlation with cause. We get it all the time nowadays. It's called pseudo science. There's no causal link ever been demonstrated between poverty and crime. And there are so many cofactors that you're spoilt for choice. For example people who can't read tend to be over-represented in crime, and people who can't read tend to be poorer than those who can. Et cetera. I fully expect to find you have nothing whatsoever to back up that statement. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 17, 2022 9:00:41 GMT
Classic ignorance - conflation of correlation with cause. We get it all the time nowadays. It's called pseudo science. There's no causal link ever been demonstrated between poverty and crime. And there are so many cofactors that you're spoilt for choice. For example people who can't read tend to be over-represented in crime, and people who can't read tend to be poorer than those who can. Et cetera. The notion that poverty significantly causes criminality has simply been repeated and repeated until it has been accepted by many lazy people as 'unarguable fact'. You are right to label this pseudo science. However, there is a causal link between criminality and poverty in that criminality quite obviously causes poverty. This relationship between poverty and criminality is in plain view and indisputable, but is rarely discussed by the left. You go on kidding yourself. Assuming you sign up to the correlation over cause, then you must have a different cause for increased crime by poorer people? |
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Post by Orac on Dec 17, 2022 9:19:12 GMT
Assuming you sign up to the correlation over cause, then you must have a different cause for increased crime by poorer people? I think trying to find the mechanistic cause of criminality is a fool's errand. Such knowledge is almost certainly beyond us presently. However, we can note the obvious : that criminality causes poverty. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 17, 2022 9:46:48 GMT
Assuming you sign up to the correlation over cause, then you must have a different cause for increased crime by poorer people? I think trying to find the mechanistic cause of criminality is a fool's errand. Such knowledge is almost certainly beyond us presently. However, we can note the obvious : that criminality causes poverty. Do you. So when there's a clear correlation between poverty and crime, you think its foolish to look for a causal link to explain the correlation. That sounds a trite convenient to me. I'm not interested in your crime causes poverty claim. Its irrelevant to this discussion, unless you think the wealth gap is caused by crime by the poor. |
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Post by Orac on Dec 17, 2022 10:20:23 GMT
Do you. So when there's a clear correlation between poverty and crime, you think its foolish to look for a causal link to explain the correlation. That sounds a trite convenient to me. Remember - you are looking for an explanation for a correlation. This is not the same as looking for an explanation for crime (ie one of the variables). I'm not interested in your crime causes poverty claim. Its irrelevant to this discussion, unless you think the wealth gap is caused by crime by the poor. You dismiss it out of hand as irrelevant, even though there is an unarguable relationship. Crime obviously (unarguably) causes poverty. You dismiss what we can actually see and insist what we can't see must be real. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 17, 2022 11:10:16 GMT
He was right though, wasn't he.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 17, 2022 11:12:17 GMT
Assuming you sign up to the correlation over cause, then you must have a different cause for increased crime by poorer people? Not necessarily: The same factors that lead to poverty also lead to crime ie they have the same root cause. |
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