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Post by colbops on Oct 15, 2022 16:04:43 GMT
1.) Thing is it doesn't only about 50% does, and that is going to run out relatively quickly 2.) You may not have said we will be off fossil fuels by 2030 but in order to be self sufficient the UK would need to be off fossil fuels for new demand and on a very aggressive program of eliminating existing infrastructure requiring it. 3) That's a given though, the UKs reserves of oil and Gas require an aggressive move away from it. The UK could be self sufficient now, but it would run out of Gas and Oil well before 2030 if it relied on domestic sources of fossil fuels only. 4) the public purse can't finance it at the pace required. Its not just building generating infrastructure, it is necessary to replace gas boilers with technologies such as ASHPs /GSHPs creating District heating schemes, Building smart decentralised energy grids. To be self sustaining by 2030 is going to take epic amounts of capital, materials and labour. Honestly Colbops, you are implying that the usage of gas we use today will be the same in the future. Gas is a transition fuel and by 2030, most of our electricity will be generated by renewables. it isn't inconceivable that if we still haven't replaced our gas boilers (which I doubt), that the gas we get from the North Sea would be pumped into homes and not into electric plants. Besides, it seems to me that you are dead against Labour so much you can't acknowledge that they may well have answered all these questions anyway. A very high proportion of the natural gas (from both the north sea and imports) does get pumped into peoples homes and for heating and hot water as well as industrial and commercial facilities for the same. I'm not implying anything. I'm flat out saying if the UK is to be self reliant for its energy needs Gas and Oil usage needs to be radically reduced in the short term and eliminated altogether in the near term, that it is a much bigger undertaking than people realise and will require much a much more aggressive approach than is already underway, or than any political party is proposing if the UK is to be self reliant for its energy needs. It is not just a case of generating electricity used now via renewable sources. The amount of energy generated needs to be increased by an incredible amount. To give you a very basic example it isn't as simple as replacing one unit of gas with one unit of electricity. Doesn't work like that. it takes 1 unit of gas to generate 3 units of heat, but 1 unit of electricity to generate 1 unit of heat. I've got nothing against Labour or anyone else for that matter, but I can assure you they are no-where near answering all the questions, let alone having a plan, or a strategy to deliver on it
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Post by jaydee on Oct 15, 2022 22:43:19 GMT
Liz Truss is abysmal, but so are the alternatives, Starmer and Davey. Lucas is away with the fairies and the SNP are insane. For the first time ever I am considering not voting. Because there isn't any decent option, they're ALL shit. Sure, there's the odd good MP and decent candidates, but no leader of any party is worthy of the job of Prime Minister at this time. I agree they are all shit, but would you vote to be energy sufficient by 2030? What has the SNP to do with it. In term of energy. For UK GB. Read England. Scotland can power itself twice over on wind alone. Not to mention Hydro, wave and wind power. Scotland has an estimated potential of 36.5 GW of wind and 7.5 GW of tidal power, 25% of the estimated total capacity for Europe and up to 14 GW of wave power potential, 10% of European capacity. And exports it by the bucket load. Unlike Westminster who have ignored the problem. The Scottish Government has invested in it. www.sciencealert.com/scotland-s-wind-turbines-are-now-generating-double-what-its-residents-need
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Post by buccaneer on Oct 15, 2022 23:39:30 GMT
The Conservative party are so inept and blobbed out that they no longer deserve to run the government - they need to go ASAP.
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Post by brexitcrusader83 on Oct 15, 2022 23:58:34 GMT
Now Hunt has announced we will have TAX RISES!
So first they cut taxes which sent interest rate through the roof and crashed the economy.
Now they are INCREASES taxes, which is a breach of the Tories manifesto pledge in 2019.
What they should do is FREEZE them. Not cut or increase.
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Post by jonksy on Oct 16, 2022 6:01:07 GMT
After 12 continuous years of disastrous Tory policies which have got us into the state we are in, I really can't see why anyone would think they would have the answers now. How many more times are people going to vote for them? The Tories used to have an election slogan "Labour isn't working." Well Tory policies aren't working now.Have they been given a chance to work? We have far to many so-called experts in the UK preaching their doom and gloom and look at the total balls-up these experts made of the Covid pandemic.
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Post by jonksy on Oct 16, 2022 6:03:11 GMT
Must be your favourite book, since you speak little else.
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Post by andrewbrown on Oct 16, 2022 6:28:40 GMT
Now Hunt has announced we will have TAX RISES! So first they cut taxes which sent interest rate through the roof and crashed the economy. Now they are INCREASES taxes, which is a breach of the Tories manifesto pledge in 2019. What they should do is FREEZE them. Not cut or increase. You do realise that we now have the Covid support and the energy support to repay? You can't take the money and then refuse to repay it. The question is not whether we repay it or not, but rather how and over what period of time.
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Post by jaydee on Oct 16, 2022 8:29:22 GMT
After 12 continuous years of disastrous Tory policies which have got us into the state we are in, I really can't see why anyone would think they would have the answers now. How many more times are people going to vote for them? The Tories used to have an election slogan "Labour isn't working." Well Tory policies aren't working now.Have they been given a chance to work? We have far to many so-called experts in the UK preaching their doom and gloom and look at the total balls-up these experts made of the Covid pandemic. So after 12 years of Tories. Along comes Distress announce the austerity programme created by Osborne was wrong and apologises. She then rants to the world her plan and within minutes the economy crasher. She then sacks her chancellor, appointed by her and the economy crashes further. Four PM in six years and 4 chancellors in 4 months. You do know and clearly not. That when this bunch of clowns took office. The debt was £1.1 trillion and the PSBR was around £160 billion a year. It is now £2,7 trillion. Yes that really is £2,700,000,000,000 and rising at over £5,000 pers second. Covid and brexit and Putin's war not included the PSBR is the same. So how about you explaining how the Tory policy of austerity was correct. When even the holder of the highest office in the land says its wrong. Then can you tell me how the policy of Truss was also correct as you root for it. When within 4 weeks there is a 100% U turn on all aspect. In terms of balls up on covid by the experts. Those experts were Matt Hancock and the Liar King Bojoke. Who were more interested in filling the bank accounts of their pals. Than looking after the country.Johnston costing the taxpayer billions as he awarded a phone app to the wife of his pal. . What exactly are you cheering about. As your head goes deeper and deeper into the sand. What chapter of the Emperor's clothes are you now on. Or is it the fault of Putin. Who's gangster gold funded Johnston and Farage's Brexit. England bought and sold by Russian gangster gold. A parcel o rogues in a nation. But heh why let facts get in the road. Would you care to correct any of that. Without your meaningless idiotic sound bites. www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/01/matt-hancock-says-labours-covid-contract-claims-rubbishwww.ndtv.com/world-news/uk-government-unlawfully-gave-contract-to-pm-boris-johnsons-advisers-friends-2460206www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/09/covid-contract-for-firm-run-by-cummings-friends-was-unlawful-judge-ruleswww.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/corrupt-core-boris-johnson-resignation-27422120www.thearticle.com/the-russia-report-who-paid-for-brexit
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Post by jaydee on Oct 16, 2022 8:36:10 GMT
Have they been given a chance to work? We have far to many so-called experts in the UK preaching their doom and gloom and look at the total balls-up these experts made of the Covid pandemic. So after 12 years of Tories. Along comes Distress announce the austerity programme created by Osborne was wrong and apologises. She then rants to the world her plan and within minutes the economy crasher. She then sacks her chancellor, appointed by her and the economy crashes further. Four PM in six years and 4 chancellors in 4 months. You do know and clearly not. That when this bunch of clowns took office. The debt was £1.1 trillion and the PSBR was around £160 billion a year. It is now £2,7 trillion. Yes that really is £2,700,000,000,000 and rising at over £5,000 pers second. Covid and brexit and Putin's war not included the PSBR is the same. So how about you explaining how the Tory policy of austerity was correct. When even the holder of the highest office in the land says it was wrong. But then the result speaks for itself. Then can you tell me how the policy of Truss was also correct as you root for it. When within 4 weeks there is a 100% U turn on all aspect. In terms of balls up on covid by the experts. Those experts were Matt Hancock and the Liar King Bojoke. Who were more interested in filling the bank accounts of their pals. Than looking after the country.Johnston costing the taxpayer billions as he awarded a phone app to the wife of his pal. . What exactly are you cheering about. As your head goes deeper and deeper into the sand. What chapter of the Emperor's clothes are you now on. Or is it the fault of Putin. Who's gangster gold funded Johnston and Farage's Brexit. England bought and sold by Russian gangster gold. A parcel o rogues in a nation. But heh why let facts get in the road. Would you care to correct any of that. Without your meaningless idiotic sound bites.of how you are a sooper dooper, total uncompromising righty. And the rest of the world is wrong. www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/01/matt-hancock-says-labours-covid-contract-claims-rubbishwww.ndtv.com/world-news/uk-government-unlawfully-gave-contract-to-pm-boris-johnsons-advisers-friends-2460206www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/09/covid-contract-for-firm-run-by-cummings-friends-was-unlawful-judge-ruleswww.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/corrupt-core-boris-johnson-resignation-27422120www.thearticle.com/the-russia-report-who-paid-for-brexit
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Post by jaydee on Oct 16, 2022 11:44:25 GMT
Don't be so sure, there are plenty of economists out there who are quietly saying Truss is on the right track. Obviously it's early days and time will tell. But I think it's a bit premature to write this government off after five minutes in office. Would you care to point to those economists. Real ones that is. Not from your Auntie Doris facebook page
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 16, 2022 11:47:53 GMT
Don't be so sure, there are plenty of economists out there who are quietly saying Truss is on the right track. Obviously it's early days and time will tell. But I think it's a bit premature to write this government off after five minutes in office. Would you care to point to those economists. Real ones that is. Not from your Auntie Doris facebook page Who's Auntie Doris lol, JD I've never been on facebook in my life.
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Post by jaydee on Oct 16, 2022 16:47:20 GMT
Would you care to point to those economists. Real ones that is. Not from your Auntie Doris facebook page Who's Auntie Doris lol, JD I've never been on facebook in my life. Well there you go. You do not have a aunty Doris. So it must be you who is going to name all those economist that agree with Truss. I am sure you will have no problem in naming them
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 17, 2022 5:54:24 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 6:17:43 GMT
Well, you can't blame him for not clicking on a paywalled link - it demands a subscription to read it.
But just cos I'm a kind soul - here is the article (no I dont have a Tele subscription):
Interviewing Liz Truss on Thursday's Today programme, Nick Robinson suggested that no economists agree with her proposals on “cutting taxes” (or, actually, not raising taxes as rapidly as Rishi Sunak proposes). She named Patrick Minford as an example of someone on her side, but actually there are quite a lot of economists who would agree with her. Allow me to explain why.
At the time of his last Budget in October 2021, Rishi Sunak had in place a series of planned tax rises, including rises in national insurance and in corporation tax. These were expected to cut the budget deficit to £44 billion by 2026/27. The OBR expected CPI inflation to rise to 4.4 per cent in 2022.
By March 2022 the view of inflation had changed dramatically, with inflation by then expected to rise to 9 per cent. Partly as a consequence, because higher inflation drags more people into paying income taxes and means higher VAT and corporation tax receipts, the 2026/27 deficit forecast was down to £32 billion.
Now, of course, we are expecting inflation to be even higher, peaking at some 11-12 per cent and not falling back as rapidly as previously hoped. As a consequence, relative to Rishi Sunak’s plans at the time he originally scheduled his further big tax rises, there is some £60 billion of additional fiscal headroom.
In this context, “tax cuts” – the term people are using to describe Truss’s plans not to raise taxes as much as Sunak has scheduled – simply mean a shift back closer to “neutral”, taking us back to something more like Sunak had intended when he originally announced his plans.
Not raising taxes as much is not, of course, the only way we could use that fiscal headroom. We could leave taxes the same and use high inflation as a political opportunity to bear down on the deficit and on government debt more rapidly. That appears to be the UK Treasury’s priority and it is Sunak’s priority. It’s not in itself a dumb idea. The Covid period saw extremely high deficits and a rapid build-up of debt and it is helpful to see that fall.
However, such a more-rapid-than-planned inflation-fueled deficit reduction programme will have consequences. Chief amongst them may be that over the next year or so the economy grows more slowly than it would if taxes were not allowed to rise so much. There may even be a recession.
Recession would reduce pressure on the Bank of England to raise interest rates to tackle inflation. Politically, that might have the happy consequence for a Sunak-led government that by 2024, as we approached the next election, the economy was growing a bit faster as it recovered from recession and because interest rates had been lower in 2022 (interest rates can have a lag of about two years before they have their full impact).
By contrast, by cancelling some of the scheduled tax rises (“tax cuts”), Truss’s policy would mean there would be more pressure on the Bank to raise interest rates to address inflation, since there would be less likelihood of a recession this year. That might mean slightly slower growth in 2024.
But it would also potentially mean higher interest rates and lower taxes over the longer term. Both of these are required for the economy to grow more rapidly. Sunak’s policy reflects an economic consensus that has locked in emergency levels of near-zero interest rates for 13 years, with repeated episodes of temporarily higher inflation being “seen through” and the Bank of England avoiding every opportunity to raise rates.
Economies do not grow at their fastest pace over the long-term if rates are too low. Rates need to be higher so that businesses borrowing to invest are forced to add enough value to pay the borrowing costs as well as create profits for their owners.
Would the Bank actually raise rates, though, if taxes were cut, or would that just mean inflation stayed higher? Perhaps if Sunak were in charge they would not. Never once during his tenure as Chancellor did he admonish the Bank of England for its repeated misses of the targets he set it. He now styles himself as “Mr Anti-Inflation”, but when he was Chancellor he did nothing about inflation at all, not even accepting it was the government’s responsibility to do anything to control it.
Truss is different. She says the Bank of England kept policy too loose, that its conduct needs to be reviewed and that its mandate may need to be changed. Under her there is a much greater likelihood that the Bank’s mandate would change, its personnel would change if it failed to meet its targets, and its independence might be revoked altogether if its failures were persistent. So it would feel pressure to raise rates higher – which is precisely what we want.
The scale of the difference in policy between Truss and Sunak is not vast on macroeconomic management, at least in the short term. But the philosophical difference is important and over time would tell. Sunak is the candidate of Treasury orthodoxy – of continuing to do what we’ve done over the past 13 years even though that has delivered us poor growth and repeated inflation. Truss is the candidate of trying something new, hopefully producing lower taxes, higher interest rates and more rapid GDP growth over the medium to long term. I’m with Truss on this. And so are many other economists.
This is the main bit:
The Telegraph article says 'many economists would agree with her' - but only names one economist - one who Truss named herself.
IOW, no evidence of more than 1 economist agreeing with her.
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Post by B0ycey on Oct 17, 2022 6:35:07 GMT
There were doctors who once claimed smoking didn't contribute to lung cancer as well. Even Biden has out his boot up Truss's ass. The truth is trickle down economics has never worked and wasn't going to work now. Everyone agrees we need growth as it happens but doing tax cuts for the wealthy isn't the way to get there.
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