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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2024 7:22:00 GMT
It is easier for the powers that be to get a nonce in high places to do their bidding by not bringing him down and holding it over him.....it does not take a genius to figure that one out. Plus wealth and power if in the hands of morally malignant people, can buy an awful lot of immunity. It turns out that Saville's unpleasant activities were widely known, not just within the BBC but more widely in the wider establishment. Yet no one touched him.
This appears to me to be a smoking gun in terms of what is really going on. The former Labour MP Tom Watson was on the right track in seeking to break a high level paedophile wing, but he was fed a lot of bullshit too as well as unproveable allegations, all of which served both to discredit the whole thing and deter anyone else from attempting a similar course of action. Job done as far as nonces in high places are concerned.
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Post by Orac on Oct 11, 2024 10:19:31 GMT
There is pretty well no limits here - if you particularly organised about it, you could select and groom nonces for political power.
You are pretty safe doing this - nobody is going to whistle-blow and say they are being offered special political favours because they are a practicing paedophile.
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Post by Bentley on Oct 11, 2024 10:22:54 GMT
I suspect that members of the elite are required to do stuff that can be held against them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2024 11:04:26 GMT
There is pretty well no limits here - if you particularly organised about it, you could select and groom nonces for political power. You are pretty safe doing this - nobody is going to whistle-blow and say they are being offered special political favours because they are a practicing paedophile. What is open to question and debate and is pretty much unknowable with any certainty, is to what extent - if any - known paedophiles are actually being placed in positions of power by those who want to control them, or how much is just a case of paedophiles rising to power with their paedophilia under the radar and people too scared to try and take them down if it becomes known, with powerful networks protecting each other. I can readily believe that when the powers that be discover that someone rich and/or powerful is a nonce, rather than bring him down they might be tempted to exploit their knowledge of his crimes to control him. This itself would be potentially high risk for those making such decisions though. After all whilst the nonces themselves will never whistle blow, deep state operatives with some moral compass would be likely to. So I doubt that the deep state would go so far as actively grooming known nonces for power. For one thing they would have to know this about someone when the bona fide investigative authorities do not. But unless something is busted wide open we are not ever likely to know so anything is possible and nothing is certain. But it is likely in my my that just because there is a deep state does not mean that all or most operatives in it are so malignant as to promote paedophiles to use them. I have no difficulty in believing that a few might be, but not most. And were this happening there is bound to be leaks. So whilst I think there are likely to be high level paedophile rings with a lot of power and influence to protect themselves and each other, I think it highly unlikely that most of them are being deliberately put there. We can all search for and probably find on the internet all sorts of guff purporting to be evidence of this if we looked. but there is so much fake disinformation on the web that we cannot really take what we find there for granted unless from a source widely held to be reliable. And there are very few of those on the internet. So we are reduced to debating speculations and possibilities with few known facts. Which in turn limits how far we can productively go in such a debate. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 12, 2024 9:23:44 GMT
There is pretty well no limits here - if you particularly organised about it, you could select and groom nonces for political power. You are pretty safe doing this - nobody is going to whistle-blow and say they are being offered special political favours because they are a practicing paedophile. What is open to question and debate and is pretty much unknowable with any certainty, is to what extent - if any - known paedophiles are actually being placed in positions of power by those who want to control them, or how much is just a case of paedophiles rising to power with their paedophilia under the radar and people too scared to try and take them down if it becomes known, with powerful networks protecting each other. I can readily believe that when the powers that be discover that someone rich and/or powerful is a nonce, rather than bring him down they might be tempted to exploit their knowledge of his crimes to control him. This itself would be potentially high risk for those making such decisions though. After all whilst the nonces themselves will never whistle blow, deep state operatives with some moral compass would be likely to. So I doubt that the deep state would go so far as actively grooming known nonces for power. For one thing they would have to know this about someone when the bona fide investigative authorities do not. But unless something is busted wide open we are not ever likely to know so anything is possible and nothing is certain. But it is likely in my my that just because there is a deep state does not mean that all or most operatives in it are so malignant as to promote paedophiles to use them. I have no difficulty in believing that a few might be, but not most. And were this happening there is bound to be leaks. So whilst I think there are likely to be high level paedophile rings with a lot of power and influence to protect themselves and each other, I think it highly unlikely that most of them are being deliberately put there. We can all search for and probably find on the internet all sorts of guff purporting to be evidence of this if we looked. but there is so much fake disinformation on the web that we cannot really take what we find there for granted unless from a source widely held to be reliable. And there are very few of those on the internet. So we are reduced to debating speculations and possibilities with few known facts. Which in turn limits how far we can productively go in such a debate. I don't think you are wrong here but i do think you may be overlooking plausible possibilities and even some evidence. The reason i insist you are not wrong is because what you have said is reasoned - ie it is reasonable to assume that any information will necessarily leak and so there are no (or few) important eternally kept secrets. Human nature is so variable and unpredictable that such a secret could not be relied on...right? This is certainly the way society should work and this is a normal person's model of what is happening. However, I submit that it is tantamount to an assumption that our society is basically morally healthy and is (on the whole) run by well intentioned and competent people. That if there is such a secret, those who would rather the truth bee known have the power between them to over-rule and expose those who do not. Even beyond this, t hat people generally are healthy enough to be able to care about the division between true and false.On that last point, let me try a mundane example. During the early part of the covid emergency there was much speculation about the origins of the disease. People talked about bats and other mammals as a possible natural repository and speculated that the mutations necessary had naturally appeared. This hypothesis was tentative because it wasn't clear what had mutated, or rather, any theory about this required a large number of unlikely steps happening quite quickly (however, unlikely things happen every day in nature because nature is so big). Another hypothesis, based loosely on the location of the first reported cases, was that the disease had escaped an experiment in a particular Chinese virus lab that was known to be conducting experimentation involving c orona-viruses. It wasn't long at all before the latter theory was denounced and described by officialdom as a 'dis-proven right wing conspiracy theory'. I was quite surprised at the sheer audacity of this move - and thought that they must have bitten off more than they can chew here because even someone who knows nothing about the science knows that you can't categorically exclude a reasonable hypothesis unless you know why it must be untrue and ,in this case , the only way you could know it is untrue is by knowing the facts surrounding the origins of the virus and, according to them, they didn't! However, to my surprise I found that many people - people who i converse with and knew were competent enough to hold all of the pieces of the puzzle in their mind at the same time - appeared unable to see over the 'right wing' component of the lie. That, in a sense, their minds had already been hijacked by the political memetics in the lie to the point that would refuse to think for themselves. They insisted that the issue was a matter of scientific expertise and that they, nor I, had the expertise necessary to be able to identify it as a lie and therefore the lie was 'almost certainly true' by dint of authority.There a whole forest of issues raised by the above and i would be happy to talk about any of them. I see this The increasing credentialisation of truth statements. This is amounts to people being increasingly told (convinced?) that their (and others') intuitive grasp of the world is insufficient to reach correct conclusions (a man is a woman?) and so they must always consult an 'expert' This amounts to learned moral helplessness The increasing 'political polorisation' - this makes every statement political and sorts every statement into supporting either one side or other in the 'societal war'. This makes normal people easy meat because they can no longer talk to each other with confidence that their words will be heard as 'just their words'. People cannot run moral issues by their friends and neighbours without significant political risk and so there is no longer any organic 'thought marketplace'. My view is that this issue is significantly miss-identified. The problem is not that people have different opinions, it is that they can no longer talk openly about those differences. We are sorting ourselves into different universes and soon their will be no communication. However, the reason I brought up the original point about covid's origins was to highlight something spooky . Even now this issue is not 'sorted'. Despite sections of officialdom retracting and back-pedaling on the matter, the penny still hasn't dropped for many that they were manipulated into turning their brains off by the use of the two words 'right wing'. So, lets no turn to an imaginary scenario in which it becomes clear to someone that (say) MI5 and large portions of the civil service are being significantly organised by and for a covert and unpleasant agenda. Anyone suspecting this has to balance the risk he will experience if he goes public against the likely consequences of doing so. I would submit that the criminals here have a pretty easy way to discredit any such claim and can do it in such a way that most of the public wont even get to the point of examining the issue logically. They certainly wont insist on an investigation. So, even in the worse case scenario, of an un-compromised person (or people) seeing or collecting evidence, there is a ninety foot brick wall covered in barbed wire between this situation and it being 'blown open'. That ninety foot brick wall is comprised of the fact that society itself is now broken to the point of being unable to use its own aggregate judgment. It wouldn't matter even if it was 'blown open'. My view btw is that society is being broken deliberately. If you are interested in this sort of thing, it's possible you might find this interesting Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes byAndrew M. LobaczewskiI haven't read it all the way through myself (it is hard going), but i understand the ideas. When society falls apart psychopaths take over. Intelligent psychopaths are trying to make society fall apart |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2024 20:45:11 GMT
What is open to question and debate and is pretty much unknowable with any certainty, is to what extent - if any - known paedophiles are actually being placed in positions of power by those who want to control them, or how much is just a case of paedophiles rising to power with their paedophilia under the radar and people too scared to try and take them down if it becomes known, with powerful networks protecting each other. I can readily believe that when the powers that be discover that someone rich and/or powerful is a nonce, rather than bring him down they might be tempted to exploit their knowledge of his crimes to control him. This itself would be potentially high risk for those making such decisions though. After all whilst the nonces themselves will never whistle blow, deep state operatives with some moral compass would be likely to. So I doubt that the deep state would go so far as actively grooming known nonces for power. For one thing they would have to know this about someone when the bona fide investigative authorities do not. But unless something is busted wide open we are not ever likely to know so anything is possible and nothing is certain. But it is likely in my my that just because there is a deep state does not mean that all or most operatives in it are so malignant as to promote paedophiles to use them. I have no difficulty in believing that a few might be, but not most. And were this happening there is bound to be leaks. So whilst I think there are likely to be high level paedophile rings with a lot of power and influence to protect themselves and each other, I think it highly unlikely that most of them are being deliberately put there. We can all search for and probably find on the internet all sorts of guff purporting to be evidence of this if we looked. but there is so much fake disinformation on the web that we cannot really take what we find there for granted unless from a source widely held to be reliable. And there are very few of those on the internet. So we are reduced to debating speculations and possibilities with few known facts. Which in turn limits how far we can productively go in such a debate. I don't think you are wrong here but i do think you may be overlooking plausible possibilities and even some evidence. The reason i insist you are not wrong is because what you have said is reasoned - ie it is reasonable to assume that any information will necessarily leak and so there are no (or few) important eternally kept secrets. Human nature is so variable and unpredictable that such a secret could not be relied on...right? This is certainly the way society should work and this is a normal person's model of what is happening. However, I submit that it is tantamount to an assumption that our society is basically morally healthy and is (on the whole) run by well intentioned and competent people. That if there is such a secret, those who would rather the truth bee known have the power between them to over-rule and expose those who do not. Even beyond this, t hat people generally are healthy enough to be able to care about the division between true and false.On that last point, let me try a mundane example. During the early part of the covid emergency there was much speculation about the origins of the disease. People talked about bats and other mammals as a possible natural repository and speculated that the mutations necessary had naturally appeared. This hypothesis was tentative because it wasn't clear what had mutated, or rather, any theory about this required a large number of unlikely steps happening quite quickly (however, unlikely things happen every day in nature because nature is so big). Another hypothesis, based loosely on the location of the first reported cases, was that the disease had escaped an experiment in a particular Chinese virus lab that was known to be conducting experimentation involving c orona-viruses. It wasn't long at all before the latter theory was denounced and described by officialdom as a 'dis-proven right wing conspiracy theory'. I was quite surprised at the sheer audacity of this move - and thought that they must have bitten off more than they can chew here because even someone who knows nothing about the science knows that you can't categorically exclude a reasonable hypothesis unless you know why it must be untrue and ,in this case , the only way you could know it is untrue is by knowing the facts surrounding the origins of the virus and, according to them, they didn't! However, to my surprise I found that many people - people who i converse with and knew were competent enough to hold all of the pieces of the puzzle in their mind at the same time - appeared unable to see over the 'right wing' component of the lie. That, in a sense, their minds had already been hijacked by the political memetics in the lie to the point that would refuse to think for themselves. They insisted that the issue was a matter of scientific expertise and that they, nor I, had the expertise necessary to be able to identify it as a lie and therefore the lie was 'almost certainly true' by dint of authority.There a whole forest of issues raised by the above and i would be happy to talk about any of them. I see this The increasing credentialisation of truth statements. This is amounts to people being increasingly told (convinced?) that their (and others') intuitive grasp of the world is insufficient to reach correct conclusions (a man is a woman?) and so they must always consult an 'expert' This amounts to learned moral helplessness The increasing 'political polorisation' - this makes every statement political and sorts every statement into supporting either one side or other in the 'societal war'. This makes normal people easy meat because they can no longer talk to each other with confidence that their words will be heard as 'just their words'. People cannot run moral issues by their friends and neighbours without significant political risk and so there is no longer any organic 'thought marketplace'. My view is that this issue is significantly miss-identified. The problem is not that people have different opinions, it is that they can no longer talk openly about those differences. We are sorting ourselves into different universes and soon their will be no communication. However, the reason I brought up the original point about covid's origins was to highlight something spooky . Even now this issue is not 'sorted'. Despite sections of officialdom retracting and back-pedaling on the matter, the penny still hasn't dropped for many that they were manipulated into turning their brains off by the use of the two words 'right wing'. So, lets no turn to an imaginary scenario in which it becomes clear to someone that (say) MI5 and large portions of the civil service are being significantly organised by and for a covert and unpleasant agenda. Anyone suspecting this has to balance the risk he will experience if he goes public against the likely consequences of doing so. I would submit that the criminals here have a pretty easy way to discredit any such claim and can do it in such a way that most of the public wont even get to the point of examining the issue logically. They certainly wont insist on an investigation. So, even in the worse case scenario, of an un-compromised person (or people) seeing or collecting evidence, there is a ninety foot brick wall covered in barbed wire between this situation and it being 'blown open'. That ninety foot brick wall is comprised of the fact that society itself is now broken to the point of being unable to use its own aggregate judgment. It wouldn't matter even if it was 'blown open'. My view btw is that society is being broken deliberately. If you are interested in this sort of thing, it's possible you might find this interesting Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes byAndrew M. LobaczewskiI haven't read it all the way through myself (it is hard going), but i understand the ideas. When society falls apart psychopaths take over. Intelligent psychopaths are trying to make society fall apart
I am not saying that I believe anything you have said, nor that I disbelieve anything you have said. It is merely food for thought. I have little time right now for a lengthy debate due to pressures of work. But I have highlighted your last sentence in order to ask you this question. If intelligent psychopaths are trying to make society fall apart, to what purpose? Why? What are they trying to achieve by that and how would it benefit them? And if information and disinformation is being used in support of this goal, how can you yourself know you are not being played? How can any of us? How can you, or I, or anyone else be certain that we are not thinking what they want us to think? Once we assume a secret cabal is really making all the decisions, we risk going down the rabbit hole of all sorts of conspiracy theorising. Any conspiracy therefore needs a lot of supporting evidence for us to believe in it. Otherwise we are just engaging in suppositions based upon our own personal ideologies and world views. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 13, 2024 7:07:56 GMT
I don't think you are wrong here but i do think you may be overlooking plausible possibilities and even some evidence. The reason i insist you are not wrong is because what you have said is reasoned - ie it is reasonable to assume that any information will necessarily leak and so there are no (or few) important eternally kept secrets. Human nature is so variable and unpredictable that such a secret could not be relied on...right? This is certainly the way society should work and this is a normal person's model of what is happening. However, I submit that it is tantamount to an assumption that our society is basically morally healthy and is (on the whole) run by well intentioned and competent people. That if there is such a secret, those who would rather the truth bee known have the power between them to over-rule and expose those who do not. Even beyond this, t hat people generally are healthy enough to be able to care about the division between true and false.On that last point, let me try a mundane example. During the early part of the covid emergency there was much speculation about the origins of the disease. People talked about bats and other mammals as a possible natural repository and speculated that the mutations necessary had naturally appeared. This hypothesis was tentative because it wasn't clear what had mutated, or rather, any theory about this required a large number of unlikely steps happening quite quickly (however, unlikely things happen every day in nature because nature is so big). Another hypothesis, based loosely on the location of the first reported cases, was that the disease had escaped an experiment in a particular Chinese virus lab that was known to be conducting experimentation involving c orona-viruses. It wasn't long at all before the latter theory was denounced and described by officialdom as a 'dis-proven right wing conspiracy theory'. I was quite surprised at the sheer audacity of this move - and thought that they must have bitten off more than they can chew here because even someone who knows nothing about the science knows that you can't categorically exclude a reasonable hypothesis unless you know why it must be untrue and ,in this case , the only way you could know it is untrue is by knowing the facts surrounding the origins of the virus and, according to them, they didn't! However, to my surprise I found that many people - people who i converse with and knew were competent enough to hold all of the pieces of the puzzle in their mind at the same time - appeared unable to see over the 'right wing' component of the lie. That, in a sense, their minds had already been hijacked by the political memetics in the lie to the point that would refuse to think for themselves. They insisted that the issue was a matter of scientific expertise and that they, nor I, had the expertise necessary to be able to identify it as a lie and therefore the lie was 'almost certainly true' by dint of authority.There a whole forest of issues raised by the above and i would be happy to talk about any of them. I see this The increasing credentialisation of truth statements. This is amounts to people being increasingly told (convinced?) that their (and others') intuitive grasp of the world is insufficient to reach correct conclusions (a man is a woman?) and so they must always consult an 'expert' This amounts to learned moral helplessness The increasing 'political polorisation' - this makes every statement political and sorts every statement into supporting either one side or other in the 'societal war'. This makes normal people easy meat because they can no longer talk to each other with confidence that their words will be heard as 'just their words'. People cannot run moral issues by their friends and neighbours without significant political risk and so there is no longer any organic 'thought marketplace'. My view is that this issue is significantly miss-identified. The problem is not that people have different opinions, it is that they can no longer talk openly about those differences. We are sorting ourselves into different universes and soon their will be no communication. However, the reason I brought up the original point about covid's origins was to highlight something spooky . Even now this issue is not 'sorted'. Despite sections of officialdom retracting and back-pedaling on the matter, the penny still hasn't dropped for many that they were manipulated into turning their brains off by the use of the two words 'right wing'. So, lets no turn to an imaginary scenario in which it becomes clear to someone that (say) MI5 and large portions of the civil service are being significantly organised by and for a covert and unpleasant agenda. Anyone suspecting this has to balance the risk he will experience if he goes public against the likely consequences of doing so. I would submit that the criminals here have a pretty easy way to discredit any such claim and can do it in such a way that most of the public wont even get to the point of examining the issue logically. They certainly wont insist on an investigation. So, even in the worse case scenario, of an un-compromised person (or people) seeing or collecting evidence, there is a ninety foot brick wall covered in barbed wire between this situation and it being 'blown open'. That ninety foot brick wall is comprised of the fact that society itself is now broken to the point of being unable to use its own aggregate judgment. It wouldn't matter even if it was 'blown open'. My view btw is that society is being broken deliberately. If you are interested in this sort of thing, it's possible you might find this interesting Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes byAndrew M. LobaczewskiI haven't read it all the way through myself (it is hard going), but i understand the ideas. When society falls apart psychopaths take over. Intelligent psychopaths are trying to make society fall apart
I am not saying that I believe anything you have said, nor that I disbelieve anything you have said. It is merely food for thought. I have little time right now for a lengthy debate due to pressures of work. But I have highlighted your last sentence in order to ask you this question. If intelligent psychopaths are trying to make society fall apart, to what purpose? Why? What are they trying to achieve by that and how would it benefit them? And if information and disinformation is being used in support of this goal, how can you yourself know you are not being played? How can any of us? How can you, or I, or anyone else be certain that we are not thinking what they want us to think? Once we assume a secret cabal is really making all the decisions, we risk going down the rabbit hole of all sorts of conspiracy theorising. Any conspiracy therefore needs a lot of supporting evidence for us to believe in it. Otherwise we are just engaging in suppositions based upon our own personal ideologies and world views. Power seems to be the end game. The evidence is all around and manifests itself as inconsistencies in society and its moral and legal foundations as highlighted above in the Covid origins example where theories as regards explanations of circumstances have levels of official approval and denial. Another example would be the race laws and the moral base for them. They are based on the moral position that to assume anything about a person's character, attributes and actions based on his ethnic group and/or the colour of his skin is a moral crime verging on murder in its severity. Yet those very laws have built into them an allowance for the very actions that are supposed to be so morally unacceptable and academia revels in race theories and the teaching of such that are racially skewed and delivered piecemeal to youthful minds. There are many such inconsistencies in everyday life and the dissemination of information. Things have moved a long way since the naked propaganda of the Nazi and Soviet regimes yet directing the populace into acceptance or rejection of specific things seems to be at work. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 13, 2024 9:34:58 GMT
I don't think you are wrong here but i do think you may be overlooking plausible possibilities and even some evidence. The reason i insist you are not wrong is because what you have said is reasoned - ie it is reasonable to assume that any information will necessarily leak and so there are no (or few) important eternally kept secrets. Human nature is so variable and unpredictable that such a secret could not be relied on...right? This is certainly the way society should work and this is a normal person's model of what is happening. However, I submit that it is tantamount to an assumption that our society is basically morally healthy and is (on the whole) run by well intentioned and competent people. That if there is such a secret, those who would rather the truth bee known have the power between them to over-rule and expose those who do not. Even beyond this, t hat people generally are healthy enough to be able to care about the division between true and false.On that last point, let me try a mundane example. During the early part of the covid emergency there was much speculation about the origins of the disease. People talked about bats and other mammals as a possible natural repository and speculated that the mutations necessary had naturally appeared. This hypothesis was tentative because it wasn't clear what had mutated, or rather, any theory about this required a large number of unlikely steps happening quite quickly (however, unlikely things happen every day in nature because nature is so big). Another hypothesis, based loosely on the location of the first reported cases, was that the disease had escaped an experiment in a particular Chinese virus lab that was known to be conducting experimentation involving c orona-viruses. It wasn't long at all before the latter theory was denounced and described by officialdom as a 'dis-proven right wing conspiracy theory'. I was quite surprised at the sheer audacity of this move - and thought that they must have bitten off more than they can chew here because even someone who knows nothing about the science knows that you can't categorically exclude a reasonable hypothesis unless you know why it must be untrue and ,in this case , the only way you could know it is untrue is by knowing the facts surrounding the origins of the virus and, according to them, they didn't! However, to my surprise I found that many people - people who i converse with and knew were competent enough to hold all of the pieces of the puzzle in their mind at the same time - appeared unable to see over the 'right wing' component of the lie. That, in a sense, their minds had already been hijacked by the political memetics in the lie to the point that would refuse to think for themselves. They insisted that the issue was a matter of scientific expertise and that they, nor I, had the expertise necessary to be able to identify it as a lie and therefore the lie was 'almost certainly true' by dint of authority.There a whole forest of issues raised by the above and i would be happy to talk about any of them. I see this The increasing credentialisation of truth statements. This is amounts to people being increasingly told (convinced?) that their (and others') intuitive grasp of the world is insufficient to reach correct conclusions (a man is a woman?) and so they must always consult an 'expert' This amounts to learned moral helplessness The increasing 'political polorisation' - this makes every statement political and sorts every statement into supporting either one side or other in the 'societal war'. This makes normal people easy meat because they can no longer talk to each other with confidence that their words will be heard as 'just their words'. People cannot run moral issues by their friends and neighbours without significant political risk and so there is no longer any organic 'thought marketplace'. My view is that this issue is significantly miss-identified. The problem is not that people have different opinions, it is that they can no longer talk openly about those differences. We are sorting ourselves into different universes and soon their will be no communication. However, the reason I brought up the original point about covid's origins was to highlight something spooky . Even now this issue is not 'sorted'. Despite sections of officialdom retracting and back-pedaling on the matter, the penny still hasn't dropped for many that they were manipulated into turning their brains off by the use of the two words 'right wing'. So, lets no turn to an imaginary scenario in which it becomes clear to someone that (say) MI5 and large portions of the civil service are being significantly organised by and for a covert and unpleasant agenda. Anyone suspecting this has to balance the risk he will experience if he goes public against the likely consequences of doing so. I would submit that the criminals here have a pretty easy way to discredit any such claim and can do it in such a way that most of the public wont even get to the point of examining the issue logically. They certainly wont insist on an investigation. So, even in the worse case scenario, of an un-compromised person (or people) seeing or collecting evidence, there is a ninety foot brick wall covered in barbed wire between this situation and it being 'blown open'. That ninety foot brick wall is comprised of the fact that society itself is now broken to the point of being unable to use its own aggregate judgment. It wouldn't matter even if it was 'blown open'. My view btw is that society is being broken deliberately. If you are interested in this sort of thing, it's possible you might find this interesting Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes byAndrew M. LobaczewskiI haven't read it all the way through myself (it is hard going), but i understand the ideas. When society falls apart psychopaths take over. Intelligent psychopaths are trying to make society fall apart
I am not saying that I believe anything you have said, nor that I disbelieve anything you have said. It is merely food for thought. I have little time right now for a lengthy debate due to pressures of work. But I have highlighted your last sentence in order to ask you this question. If intelligent psychopaths are trying to make society fall apart, to what purpose? Why? What are they trying to achieve by that and how would it benefit them? And if information and disinformation is being used in support of this goal, how can you yourself know you are not being played? How can any of us? How can you, or I, or anyone else be certain that we are not thinking what they want us to think? Once we assume a secret cabal is really making all the decisions, we risk going down the rabbit hole of all sorts of conspiracy theorising. Any conspiracy therefore needs a lot of supporting evidence for us to believe in it. Otherwise we are just engaging in suppositions based upon our own personal ideologies and world views. I intended to leave a bread crumb trail of thought provocation rather than create an iron clad case..(i can't remotely create an iron clad case) However, what i put was very scattered and i never summarised..so here is a summary 1) When society fails, psychopaths take over. 2) Intelligent psychopaths would therefore try to make healthy society fail. In a sense, a healthy society grounded in reality is their worst enemy. 3) Paedophilic activity would act as a very effective security screen / filter for psychopaths 4) There many indications now that society itself is being assaulted from the top5) We have cases like Jimmy Savile and Jeffrey Epstein that strongly suggest that paedophilia has significant influence in the system - can pull very significant strings |
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Post by Dubdrifter on Oct 13, 2024 10:46:56 GMT
Apologies for delayed reply … been busy. The video you posted is fake, there are no credible sources backing it up. Meanwhile, Putin who really is a paedophile, who raped little boys in East Germany in the 1980's enjoys your wholehearted support. You don't care about the inside job false flag terrorist attacks that were committed to get Putin into power in the late 1990's, or the murder of the whistleblower who revealed all this info. Alexander Litvinenko revealed all this. He used to work for the KGB then the FSB. He quit the FSB and became a refugee because of the criminal Putin. Trump, who really is a paedophile and raped little girls with Epstein, and with Diddy, enjoys your wholehearted support. You're utterly brainwashed. You wouldn't know a conspiracy if Russians invaded your home. 9 times out of 10 … even 9/11 …Evidence eventually emerges from the sands of time … often confirming Conspiracy Theorists were correct. 9/10 of your “credible sources” were (deliberately?negligently?) SLOW to expose and prosecute the Ruling Elite behaving badly. …P. Diddy was ‘protected’ by the MEDIA and the FEDS from prosecution for 30 years of abuse … ….This ruling elite own and control a ‘media view’ you support … so guess who is brainwashed here? …or are you just SLOW?? ++++ Putin was groomed to be a leader by the Kremlin … Trump’s money, manipulation of Media … and hard nosed negotiation in business and politics got him to the Top Table … the Democrats were mostly backed by the Zionist Mafia. Both have ‘big secrets’ that could topple them at any time … despite Trump’s Epstein baggage history … the voters saw him do a good job in Office 2016-2020 … most voters supported these two Leaders for what they did in Office … going against the actions of this UBER POWERFUL secretive Religious(mainly Zionist-controlled) New World Order. If the CIA/FBI Deep State and Vinny have pedophilia/rape evidence to sink Trump without trace … I guess they need to present it now. Personally, I think it’s more important to get a Republican in the White House … preferably without Trump’s ‘disturbing baggage’ … but with a similar ability to stop this impending nuclear war. …. Factions in the CIA/Pentagon engineered and perpetuate/accelerate the biggest threat to Humankind in HISTORY in Ukraine …. so we should expect Trump to be in Court again soon … if Vinny’s allegations are true … and the P.Diddy videos confirm Trump is as bad as Biden and Dems when it comes to grooming youngsters for sex …. and secretly trafficking children. rumble.com/v5gk3b5-400-children-a-day-trafficked-across-us-southern-border.htmlLooks like the Democrats are fully committed to trafficking children … which has accelerated alarmingly under his ‘broken border policies’. I think it's quite likely. The taboos around pedophilia are so strong that it easily acts as a 'psychopathic sealant' (a sealant easily employed by psychopaths). A normal, unwary person might find themselves trapped by 'party' situations unless they are careful and, once trapped, there is no way out. The intelligence agencies have been using this way of compromising people for a while and there is clearly a giant conduit between intelligence agencies and politics.A hypothesis is powerful in proportion to the amount it explains multiplied by its its plausibility. In this case, the hypothesis explains a great deal and has no components that are particularly implausible - ie we know that psychopaths behave like this and would use this tool if it were available - and why wouldn't it be available? Which part of the puzzle is missing here? A detractor might say that there is no evidence. However, i would submit that there is evidence. How did Rosanne Bar know about Epstein's island in the nineties? You might say, well she's crazy - but the problem is the functional definition of crazy is that you are perpetually wrong and in this case she appears to be right (ie not crazy). We also have the circumstantial evidence surrounding the treatment of Epstein - his barely explicable 'position', the fact that he is charged and convicted of very serious crimes, but somehow escapes through the system and restarts the very same operation. How does this make any sense without the significant co-operation of 'the system'? Finally we have a set of weird coincidence surround his death - that when the lid seemed sure to be opened, he 'commits suicide' in close custody and all the normal things that would allow this fact to be confirmed beyond reasonable doubt are somehow, by pure coincidence, 'not working on that day' Science isn't purely about stating about what we know for sure, if it were it could state practically nothing. Science is partially about balancing what seems most likely true, given that coincidences are rare and that the universe itself is consistent and doesn't conspire. I would welcome a discussion about this btw. When The Establishment and MSM is going ‘totally over the top’ vilifying certain key things like Al Qaida, Conspiracy Theorists, Brexit, Trump, Far Right, Putin, …. and CT again and again …. you can guarantee there’s a major Agenda behind it … that is going to seriously damage our Communities … and the Public Interest. There is pretty well no limits here - if you particularly organised about it, you could select and groom nonces for political power. You are pretty safe doing this - nobody is going to whistle-blow and say they are being offered special political favours because they are a practicing paedophile. What is open to question and debate and is pretty much unknowable with any certainty, is to what extent - if any - known paedophiles are actually being placed in positions of power by those who want to control them, or how much is just a case of paedophiles rising to power with their paedophilia under the radar and people too scared to try and take them down if it becomes known, with powerful networks protecting each other. I can readily believe that when the powers that be discover that someone rich and/or powerful is a nonce, rather than bring him down they might be tempted to exploit their knowledge of his crimes to control him. This itself would be potentially high risk for those making such decisions though. After all whilst the nonces themselves will never whistle blow, deep state operatives with some moral compass would be likely to. So I doubt that the deep state would go so far as actively grooming known nonces for power. For one thing they would have to know this about someone when the bona fide investigative authorities do not.But unless something is busted wide open we are not ever likely to know so anything is possible and nothing is certain. But it is likely in my my that just because there is a deep state does not mean that all or most operatives in it are so malignant as to promote paedophiles to use them. I have no difficulty in believing that a few might be, but not most. And were this happening there is bound to be leaks. So whilst I think there are likely to be high level paedophile rings with a lot of power and influence to protect themselves and each other, I think it highly unlikely that most of them are being deliberately put there. We can all search for and probably find on the internet all sorts of guff purporting to be evidence of this if we looked. but there is so much fake disinformation on the web that we cannot really take what we find there for granted unless from a source widely held to be reliable. And there are very few of those on the internet. So we are reduced to debating speculations and possibilities with few known facts. Which in turn limits how far we can productively go in such a debate. The Internet has it’s critics … but if you sift conspiracy evidence that builds and grows … and focus on areas where you see strange activity of covert censorship by The Establishment/Deep State … be assured … you are on the ‘right track’. Bad/false conspiracy rarely has legs … and soon falls away, ignored and forgotten. Good Conspiracy Theorists are like the best detectives … like Roseanne Barr … dropping a ‘nugget’ about Epstein in the 90’s … why didn’t the FEDS follow up on it?? … It’s because they wanted leverage on the sick powerful elite going to the island for sex, drugs and even possibly murdering people for kicks(!?) … and basically the FBI/CIA said to the trafficked and abused victims … your lives don’t matter. THEY KNEW THIS WAS GOING ON … and whistle-blowers who worked in the FBI confirmed they turned a blind eye … covered it up for DECADES … so victims had no protection when they went to the Police ….. because the FBI/CIA had AUTHORITY over the Police … and control of the Judiciary. …part of an Establishment of kiddy fiddlers, drug and prostitute users and racketeers. Every Country has a Deep State that knows everything … but does too little, too late. The Establishment went rotten to the core … and you no longer have to be a CT to acknowledge that FACT. All people with a modicum of intelligence, who are relatively open-minded and brain-wash free … wear a tin foil hat these days. (Protection from 5G? 😂👍) If intelligent psychopaths are trying to make society fall apart, to what purpose? Why? What are they trying to achieve by that and how would it benefit them? And if information and disinformation is being used in support of this goal, how can you yourself know you are not being played? How can any of us? How can you, or I, or anyone else be certain that we are not thinking what they want us to think? Once we assume a secret cabal is really making all the decisions, we risk going down the rabbit hole of all sorts of conspiracy theorising. Any conspiracy therefore needs a lot of supporting evidence for us to believe in it. Otherwise we are just engaging in suppositions based upon our own personal ideologies and world views. And while the Deep State turns a blind eye … and the elite’s MSM is muzzled … these anarchists and the servants who protect them, gain more wealth and power. Those with the money are mostly behind this, but good evidence is important … if it is allowed to stay in the public domain for detailed Court scrutiny … these Mafia-type covert gangs have power to remove anything … and kill anyone(eg.Epstein in a government-run prison under special protection) … and get away with it. Follow the money … look no further … it is obvious … They thrive on the chaos this causes to our Communities … Are you sure you want more evidence our Establishment is compromised?? … 🙄 |
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Post by Dubdrifter on Oct 13, 2024 12:12:02 GMT
Apologies for delay responding to this. … but it was rather ‘off topic’ tbh. The bastards were all trying to turn us gay at the time with freaks like Boy George. Rave followed punk, where the ehtos of punk was DIY. However it was more intelligent than punk as punk was an anarchist thing. It eventually blew their shit out of the water, so the corporations had to pretend to support it, and as they did they created "vocal house" which was trying t pull it back into their domain of basiclaly brainwasiing the population by controlling the music it listened to. I think the whole thing was being deliberatly killed off by about 97. After that they used rave to place subliminal dodgy messeages in the music. Radio One was one of these where you could spot it if you had a keen ear. Ther are no limits to the depths of depraverty these corportate savages will go to in order to control us. The Sun newspaper was spreading total lies about it claiming there was trouble at these raves where there was less trouble by far than any similar corporate event. A few errors here, BvL. Firstly, however much brain-washing the music industry, newspapers, the Internet and grooming adults do … you can’t turn someone ‘gay’ ‘bi’ ‘trans’ … or ‘hetero’. … We are what we are … and our tastes might change throughout our life … as we mature … a spectrum running from hetero to bi to totally gay …. people eventually find a niche they are comfortable with. … and people’s curiosity is drawn to a ‘freak show’. Diddy’s parties were like Caligula’s … Hollywood popular … and anything goes. And after 1am …sex slaves too … nothing has changed as the Roman/American Empires crumble …. we are seeing the signs here … but are the LGBTQ+, Punk, Rave Communities to blame? … I reckon you’re scape-goating here, tbh. Most music scenes rise up from the streets, from the Underground … the Deep State/Establishment mostly tries to crush difference in People … individuality. If it survives …the Deep State + gangsters get involved … and this involvement generally nurtures a scene into avenues of extremes … destroys the value + good in a ‘community’ … so that moral outrage kicks in … and the Public are brain-washed to turn on and destroy what MK Ultra and greedy opportunists, bad elements latch onto … have corrupted … and turned into something rotten. The Deep State/Establishment goal here in Britain is to kill off venues, fun, Society gatherings … and force people indoors …LOCKDOWN …. to be censored just by the Media they control. Brain rot … if you are not selective. Some scenes survive … by going back underground … the Rave Scene musically for quite a while had a lot of positives … that didn’t require drugs to be enjoyable. Hypnotic rhythms alone can trigger communal euphoria. But positive pleasurable tribal unity hasn’t been part of Zionist/Deep State programming for a long long time now … they have gone off the rails …. WARS … that’s their idea of ‘tribalism’ + manipulation today. Very sick … in a bad way. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 13, 2024 12:44:17 GMT
Apologies for delay responding to this. … but it was rather ‘off topic’ tbh. The bastards were all trying to turn us gay at the time with freaks like Boy George. Rave followed punk, where the ehtos of punk was DIY. However it was more intelligent than punk as punk was an anarchist thing. It eventually blew their shit out of the water, so the corporations had to pretend to support it, and as they did they created "vocal house" which was trying t pull it back into their domain of basiclaly brainwasiing the population by controlling the music it listened to. I think the whole thing was being deliberatly killed off by about 97. After that they used rave to place subliminal dodgy messeages in the music. Radio One was one of these where you could spot it if you had a keen ear. Ther are no limits to the depths of depraverty these corportate savages will go to in order to control us. The Sun newspaper was spreading total lies about it claiming there was trouble at these raves where there was less trouble by far than any similar corporate event. A few errors here, BvL. Firstly, however much brain-washing the music industry, newspapers, the Internet and grooming adults do … you can’t turn someone ‘gay’ ‘bi’ ‘trans’ … or ‘hetero’. … We are what we are … and our tastes might change throughout our life … as we mature … a spectrum running from hetero to bi to totally gay …. people eventually find a niche they are comfortable with. … and people’s curiosity is drawn to a ‘freak show’. Diddy’s parties were like Caligula’s … Hollywood popular … and anything goes. And after 1am …sex slaves too … nothing has changed as the Roman/American Empires crumble …. we are seeing the signs here … but are the LGBTQ+, Punk, Rave Communities to blame? … I reckon you’re scape-goating here, tbh. Most music scenes rise up from the streets, from the Underground … the Deep State/Establishment mostly tries to crush difference in People … individuality. If it survives …the Deep State + gangsters get involved … and this involvement generally nurtures a scene into avenues of extremes … destroys the value + good in a ‘community’ … so that moral outrage kicks in … and the Public are brain-washed to turn on and destroy what MK Ultra and greedy opportunists, bad elements latch onto … have corrupted … and turned into something rotten. The Deep State/Establishment goal here in Britain is to kill off venues, fun, Society gatherings … and force people indoors …LOCKDOWN …. to be censored just by the Media they control. Brain rot … if you are not selective. Some scenes survive … by going back underground … the Rave Scene musically for quite a while had a lot of positives … that didn’t require drugs to be enjoyable. Hypnotic rhythms alone can trigger communal euphoria. But positive pleasurable tribal unity hasn’t been part of Zionist/Deep State programming for a long long time now … they have gone off the rails …. WARS … that’s their idea of ‘tribalism’ + manipulation today. Very sick … in a bad way. It was only a cursory summary of a long story. I was seeing it going on firsthand. Another corporate thing they did was introduce something called hard house circa 200s time. This was subliminal as well and the theme was violence. The MDMA was tightly controlled and replaced with coke, which as you know, can amplify the aggression in aggressive people. London was awash with it at this time. Hard house didn't last for long, but did its job to destroy the more mellow genres which the British were developing. Nick Warren was one of the good guys though and never compromised his art via corporate influence. He's a true artist.
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Post by Orac on Oct 13, 2024 13:14:09 GMT
Pardon me, but it seems we are observing a recurring pattern.
Hip hop was used to destroy the creative bubble of the eighties and then, ostensibly, the same 'crash into crap' happens with nineties electronic music.
The hippy thing was destroyed by the large numbers of psychopathic and narcissistic parasites and perverts who attached themselves to the social movement and distorted it into pure hedonism
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Post by Vinny on Oct 13, 2024 13:34:36 GMT
More 9/11 bollocks and Putin propaganda.
Tawdry.
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Post by Orac on Oct 13, 2024 14:25:23 GMT
Pardon me, but it seems we are observing a recurring pattern. Hip hop was used to destroy the creative bubble of the eighties and then, ostensibly, the same 'crash into crap' happens with nineties electronic music. The hippy thing was destroyed by the large numbers of psychopathic and narcissistic parasites and perverts who attached themselves to the social movement and distorted it into pure hedonism Lets expand this principle out - How about these? The environmental movement
The trans rights movement
Feminism
The Labour party
?
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 13, 2024 14:32:21 GMT
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