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Post by ProVeritas on Sept 3, 2024 16:05:32 GMT
Under Thatcher manufacturing output rose so the idea that she destroyed UK manufacturing is a bit of a myth. What she did do was make it far more productive so that it didn't need as many workers. Not entirely true. An awful lot of manufacturing of "components of things" was off-shored to low wage economies. Those components were then shipped to the UK for "final assembly"; allowing the manufacturer to stick a, dubious at best, "Made In Great Britain" label on the end product, and allowing government to massage productivity figures. This was still going on, since Thatcher's era, at a major employer in my local town as recently as 4 or 5 years ago. When the quality of those "off-shored, low-wage-economy" components got so bad the company had to put itself up for takeover to stave of bankruptcy. I am sure the executive level management and shareholders did OK out of that little deal, everyone else got royally fucked. All The Best |
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Post by see2 on Sept 11, 2024 12:07:33 GMT
The short recession 1980/81 did not cause a 9 year reduction in businesses (as unemployment continued to rise year on year), nor did it cause the destruction of enterprise or a gradual increase of over 2 Million people out of work. Many skilled people and many trained people who found themselves out of employment under Thatcher, changed direction taking on anything from 'shelf fillers' to retraining. I left nearly 30 years of engineering and retrained into mental health care, helping others but no longer indulging in money making production. You have a blind spot when it comes to Thatcher's ideological history. Labour under Callaghan repaid most of the IMF loan and reduced inflation from over 20% to 10%. Thatcher's corner shop Ideology saw Japanese industry replace many UK businesses. i.e. don't make it yourself, just buy it and sell it. I give Thatcher full credit for what in my opinion was the only thing she got right, which was in making Wild-Cat strikes illegal. We all have a story to tell I voted Labour in 97 and within six months was made redundant from 26 years in civil engineering materials. The Dongas, the Treehuggers and the Swampies got their way and road building was knocked on the head which some say cost the economy 10 billion, possibly more for when they did come to build those roads the price was through the roof and the staff had moved on to retraining and different businesses, and early retirement. Thatcher was a product of her time and in general terms my own situation did not change overly much over her period as PM. When Blair arrived my own situation changed dramatically and the change in the country was dynamic and detested by many and in fewer years than Thatcher did. IIRC, even in 2010 after the financial meltdown, when New Labour left office, unemployment was lower than they inherited in 1997. |
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Post by sandypine on Sept 11, 2024 14:51:30 GMT
We all have a story to tell I voted Labour in 97 and within six months was made redundant from 26 years in civil engineering materials. The Dongas, the Treehuggers and the Swampies got their way and road building was knocked on the head which some say cost the economy 10 billion, possibly more for when they did come to build those roads the price was through the roof and the staff had moved on to retraining and different businesses, and early retirement. Thatcher was a product of her time and in general terms my own situation did not change overly much over her period as PM. When Blair arrived my own situation changed dramatically and the change in the country was dynamic and detested by many and in fewer years than Thatcher did. IIRC, even in 2010 after the financial meltdown, when New Labour left office, unemployment was lower than they inherited in 1997. I think you are mistaken "When Labour won the 1997 election the unemployment rate for adults was 7.2%. When it left government in 2010, it was 7.9%. The number of people who were unemployed rose from 2 million to 2.5 million." fullfact.org/economy/unemployment-under-Labour/ |
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Post by Rebirth on Sept 11, 2024 19:03:18 GMT
IIRC, even in 2010 after the financial meltdown, when New Labour left office, unemployment was lower than they inherited in 1997. I think you are mistaken "When Labour won the 1997 election the unemployment rate for adults was 7.2%. When it left government in 2010, it was 7.9%. The number of people who were unemployed rose from 2 million to 2.5 million." fullfact.org/economy/unemployment-under-Labour/Oh dear, See2 has been caught, yet again, spreading lies for the regime. |
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Post by witchfinder on Sept 11, 2024 20:44:26 GMT
Under Margaret Thatcher British manufacturing declined by 30% by 1983, so much so that our Balance Of Payments ( exports against imports of manufactured goods ) went into the red, and has never returned back into the black since.
This is what Chancellor Nigel Lawson said at the time ... "There is no adamantine law that says we have to produce as much in the way of manufactures as we consume. If it does turn out that we are relatively more efficient in world terms at providing services than at producing goods, then our national interest lies in a surplus on services and a deficit on goods."
The UK is now behind South Korea, India, France and Italy in the table of worlds largest manufacturing nations.
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Post by sandypine on Sept 12, 2024 6:49:06 GMT
Under Margaret Thatcher British manufacturing declined by 30% by 1983, so much so that our Balance Of Payments ( exports against imports of manufactured goods ) went into the red, and has never returned back into the black since. This is what Chancellor Nigel Lawson said at the time ... "There is no adamantine law that says we have to produce as much in the way of manufactures as we consume. If it does turn out that we are relatively more efficient in world terms at providing services than at producing goods, then our national interest lies in a surplus on services and a deficit on goods." The UK is now behind South Korea, India, France and Italy in the table of worlds largest manufacturing nations. If you are just looking at manufacturing under NewLabour it fell from 18% to 10% in other words NL almost halved manufacturing. No other government did that to my recall. Quick calc that is over 44% |
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Post by Handyman on Sept 12, 2024 7:58:14 GMT
Under Thatcher manufacturing output rose so the idea that she destroyed UK manufacturing is a bit of a myth. What she did do was make it far more productive so that it didn't need as many workers. I agree I was in the work place back in the late 60's , unemployment was on the increase when Labour were in power steadily climbing we faced stiff competition from cheaper imports we could not compete, we were overmanned and less productive, which meant many producers manufacturers went bankrupt Then of course unrest in the workplace by the Unions strikes were common, hence we were known as the sick man of Europe, then energy and fuel problems 3 day week, when Thatcher became PM unemployment was still going up and up, she knew what Scargill was going to do and was prepared for his attempt to bring down the Tory Government. More Pits were closed down under Labour by the National Coal Board than the Tories because they were uneconomical they to could not compete with cheaper coal from abroad, plus the demand for coal had fallen the old coal boilers were replaced by oil fired boilers in factories, the Railways scraped Steam Engines for Diesel it took over 10 years to get unemployment down. What will Starmer do ? will he be in charge or will the Unions take the UK back to the bad old days ? |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 12, 2024 10:40:07 GMT
Looking at the massive pay rises being handed out I'd say the Unions are already back in charge.
All we need now is beer and sandwiches in No 10.
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Post by Fairsociety on Sept 12, 2024 10:53:45 GMT
I think it was all planned to let Labour win, they the public needed to see how bad a Labour government would be for those who had forgotten or were too young to remember the last last Labour government in power, after 5 years of Labour the country will be on bendded knees begging for another government, and Labour will be out of power again for a lot longer than 13 years.
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Post by see2 on Sept 12, 2024 18:43:29 GMT
IIRC, even in 2010 after the financial meltdown, when New Labour left office, unemployment was lower than they inherited in 1997. I think you are mistaken "When Labour won the 1997 election the unemployment rate for adults was 7.2%. When it left government in 2010, it was 7.9%. The number of people who were unemployed rose from 2 million to 2.5 million." fullfact.org/economy/unemployment-under-Labour/Yes, But I did post IIRC, nevertheless the point still stands because despite the 2008 crisis, unemployment was still lower (but still rising on the back of the IFM) in 2009 than in 1997. |
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Post by Handyman on Sept 12, 2024 18:51:28 GMT
Looking at the massive pay rises being handed out I'd say the Unions are already back in charge. All we need now is beer and sandwiches in No 10. If they have a glass of wine and birthday cake , Starmer will be out of the door in double quick time  |
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Post by see2 on Sept 12, 2024 18:52:36 GMT
Looking at the massive pay rises being handed out I'd say the Unions are already back in charge. All we need now is beer and sandwiches in No 10. Let's see, as the Tories have dominated parliament for 70% of the time since 1951 they cannot escape most of the blame for the country being in the mess it is in. So I suggest you stop whinging and wait for outcomes of the Labour approach. Reading your posts one might think your only intention is to denigrate Labour, which doesn't seem to be a very grown up thing to do. |
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Post by sandypine on Sept 12, 2024 19:01:39 GMT
Looking at the massive pay rises being handed out I'd say the Unions are already back in charge. All we need now is beer and sandwiches in No 10. Let's see, as the Tories have dominated parliament for 70% of the time since 1951 they cannot escape most of the blame for the country being in the mess it is in. So I suggest you stop whinging and wait for outcomes of the Labour approach. Reading your posts one might think your only intention is to denigrate Labour, which doesn't seem to be a very grown up thing to do. That does not necessarily follow. It is the policies that any specific government introduced that are telling. We could argue all day on what they are but in terms of society, demographics and population increase we are looking at NewLabour as initiating policies that affected those most. We could also argue the overall benefits of that increase as well as the overall negative effect and balance them up but in terms of having and keeping some form of cohesive society the biggest changes have been post 97 and they are each about 50% culpable as very few view what we have as a change for the better. |
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Post by see2 on Sept 12, 2024 19:08:47 GMT
Let's see, as the Tories have dominated parliament for 70% of the time since 1951 they cannot escape most of the blame for the country being in the mess it is in. So I suggest you stop whinging and wait for outcomes of the Labour approach. Reading your posts one might think your only intention is to denigrate Labour, which doesn't seem to be a very grown up thing to do. That does not necessarily follow. It is the policies that any specific government introduced that are telling. We could argue all day on what they are but in terms of society, demographics and population increase we are looking at NewLabour as initiating policies that affected those most. We could also argue the overall benefits of that increase as well as the overall negative effect and balance them up but in terms of having and keeping some form of cohesive society the biggest changes have been post 97 and they are each about 50% culpable as very few view what we have as a change for the better. More excuses from a Rightist ^^ Its the reason the UK never quite makes it. Like making the rich richer rather than making sure the NHS and Education were properly funded. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Sept 12, 2024 19:31:24 GMT
More excuses from a Rightist ^^ Its the reason the UK never quite makes it. Like making the rich richer rather than making sure the NHS and Education were properly funded. Only a lefty would ever say 'the UK never quite makes it'. This must be the reason the rest of the bloody world is desperately trying to get to the UK. |
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