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Post by Rebirth on Aug 11, 2024 15:41:39 GMT
Somebody started a thread about the funding of Mosques, and now it's just a bash Christian thread. It's all quite peculiar, especially when their arguments appear to be anti-Christian whilst claiming to be non-religious. No-one is bashing Christians. I have said that all deserve representation regardless of their religion or lack of it. I respect your right to religion. Please respect my right to atheism. I'm just wondering why the thread topic has been derailed and find it even more bizarre that atheists are so relaxed about Islam and yet so hostile toward Christianity. I find it all quite irrational. I'm not religious, so it would seem that you're not preaching for the Atheist denomination. |
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Post by Bentley on Aug 11, 2024 15:45:07 GMT
You don’t need to be . You need to be able to explain your claim that the apocalyptic religion based on the failure of man to adhere to it ,has failed because man hasn't adhered to it . I didn't say that Christianity was "based on the failure of man to adhere to it". You wrote: Yes Jesus failed . But the New Testament predicted that .And I replied: I would argue that Christianity continues to fail. What has it solved?If you're saying that Christianity was doomed to fail because of mankind's flaws, who is to blame for the fact that his creation is flawed? And if your god is omniscient, what was the point of the whole exercise if he knew in advance that it would fail? Yes you did because Christianity IS an apocalyptic religion based on the failure of man to adhere to it. I assume that you knew premise behind Christianity. Im not ‘ saying ‘ anything . I’m asking you to explain why you think an apocalyptic religion based on the failure of man to adhere to it has failed when it is made quite clear that that very thing was going happen. I don’t have a god but I can see the bleeding obvious in a narrative. |
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Post by Bentley on Aug 11, 2024 15:55:17 GMT
No-one is bashing Christians. I have said that all deserve representation regardless of their religion or lack of it. I respect your right to religion. Please respect my right to atheism. I'm just wondering why the thread topic has been derailed and find it even more bizarre that atheists are so relaxed about Islam and yet so hostile toward Christianity. I find it all quite irrational. I'm not religious, so it would seem that you're not preaching for the Atheist denomination. Most Christian denominations have bent over backwards to fit into a secular society and ,as far as I can see, try to accommodate Muslims. I haven’t heard of any CofE clergy ranting about Muslim heretics and/ or ‘ suggesting’ that we should be part of an extreme Christian fundie society . I don’t see the local Jehovah’s witnesses walking around with knives, hitting people going into pubs or saying that the ‘ motherfuckers are going to if they don’t get ‘ justice ‘. |
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Post by Ripley on Aug 11, 2024 16:40:37 GMT
No-one is bashing Christians. I have said that all deserve representation regardless of their religion or lack of it. I respect your right to religion. Please respect my right to atheism. I'm just wondering why the thread topic has been derailed and find it even more bizarre that atheists are so relaxed about Islam and yet so hostile toward Christianity. I find it all quite irrational. I'm not religious, so it would seem that you're not preaching for the Atheist denomination. What gives you the impression that atheists are relaxed about Islam? Atheists are equally opposed to all religions. We are not hostile towards religion until religion interferes with public policy. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Aug 11, 2024 16:44:29 GMT
See Dante's Divine Comedy. Somewhere in it he meets Cicero. He was there, but on the outer edges of hell because he 'had done good works', but had rejected the faith. I translated quite a lot of Cicero when I was younger. Dante's Divine Comedy is, of course, not factual. If you want to believe in gobbledeygook, that is your prerogative. I am not motivated by fear of divine punishment. I am motivated by doing good for its own sake, without any expectation of reward. Never-the-less it is fundamental to our culture. Dante was well respected and a big influence. He's often seen painted with a book. There's a lot of symbolism in that. They were trying to rise up and be further from the brute and closer to the divine. Our modern culture was imported from America and is satanic. If the bible means nothing then why is it the Satanists reverse every aspect of it?
Christians believe all other religions are evil, yet in our modern society they train people to treat each one equally. This is an abomination to a Christian. We have a long way to fall. People imagine we have reached rock bottom, but these people kill. They are very dangerous to have in our country.
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Post by Ripley on Aug 11, 2024 16:51:38 GMT
I translated quite a lot of Cicero when I was younger. Dante's Divine Comedy is, of course, not factual. If you want to believe in gobbledeygook, that is your prerogative. I am not motivated by fear of divine punishment. I am motivated by doing good for its own sake, without any expectation of reward. Never-the-less it is fundamental to our culture. Dante was well respected and a big influence. He's often seen painted with a book. There's a lot of symbolism in that. They were trying to rise up and be further from the brute and closer to the divine. Our modern culture was imported from America and is satanic. If the bible means nothing then why is it the Satanists reverse every aspect of it?
Christians believe all other religions are evil, yet in our modern society they train people to treat each one equally. This is an abomination to a Christian. We have a long way to fall. People imagine we have reached rock bottom, but these people kill. They are very dangerous to have in our country.
Sorry - are you saying that it is an abomination to a Christian to treat people equally? If I misunderstood that, please clarify. I have been a Christian, but that wasn't my interpretation of the golden rule. |
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Post by Orac on Aug 11, 2024 16:51:50 GMT
Is this all you can do so as to avoid the point I made: ye shall know them by their fruits. I've played this game before and it is fruitless. We should get with the Christian message and stop supporting Satan.
Now lets look at some news. Just the other day there was a Muslim protest where a black police officer shouted through his loud hailer to leave your weapons at the mosque to avoid us arresting you.
Now do please observe this never happened in Britain before these Muslims turned up. Like I keep saying, know them by their fruits.
They are highly corrupt. Their immoral ways are in danger of corrupting a once decent Christian country. I believe this was the intention from the start.
Your position is that the alternative to Christianity is supporting Satan? In fairness, I don't think that's what he said - at least that's not what i took from it. He appears to be saying that a culturally Christian perspective, 'Islamic culture' is a corrupt criminal operation. If he is saying this, I agree with him. |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 11, 2024 16:56:47 GMT
Public Policy is made by politicians who believe in things - it is not something delivered down from on high carved in stone. You mentioned abortion before - the relaxation in abortion Law came about because politicians believed that change was needed. There is no inherent 'human right' to abortion. American women's reproductive rights were protected under Federal law for fifty years. They have now been deprived of those Federal protections, which means that their rights now vary from state to state. I wouldn't call that a 'relaxation' . That is a rolling back of women's rights to reproductive healthcare. In some states, women are now having to carry nonviable fetuses to term, risking their own lives and future reproductive ability, and little girls who are incest victims will be forced to give birth. American women are outraged by this and will vote accordingly. Yes, but I am talking about before RvW. the change that gave that protection in Federal Law was carried out by politicians who believed it was the right thing to do - just as the reversal has been carried by people who believe it was the right thing to do. There are no inherited rights. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Aug 11, 2024 17:34:55 GMT
Never-the-less it is fundamental to our culture. Dante was well respected and a big influence. He's often seen painted with a book. There's a lot of symbolism in that. They were trying to rise up and be further from the brute and closer to the divine. Our modern culture was imported from America and is satanic. If the bible means nothing then why is it the Satanists reverse every aspect of it?
Christians believe all other religions are evil, yet in our modern society they train people to treat each one equally. This is an abomination to a Christian. We have a long way to fall. People imagine we have reached rock bottom, but these people kill. They are very dangerous to have in our country.
Sorry - are you saying that it is an abomination to a Christian to treat people equally? If I misunderstood that, please clarify. I have been a Christian, but that wasn't my interpretation of the golden rule. A person is not a religion. Love the person/hate the religion. It's the same with gay people. Christians should not neglect them for being gay, but may try and help them refrain from sin for their own good. It all makes logical sense if you get down to exactly what is meant. I've seen many people get caught up in cults and can vouch that it can destroy your life/turn you crazy.
Living by the belief there is only one truth makes you wary of being drawn into any form of cult. Another example is lying. These non-Christian culture are very much into their lying. Looking at our local history, the two most successful firms in our town, which between them used to employ about half the town, they were both started by Christians. They manufactured honest quality merchandise. Compare to an Indian company and you will see the difference. |
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Post by Ripley on Aug 11, 2024 17:35:21 GMT
American women's reproductive rights were protected under Federal law for fifty years. They have now been deprived of those Federal protections, which means that their rights now vary from state to state. I wouldn't call that a 'relaxation' . That is a rolling back of women's rights to reproductive healthcare. In some states, women are now having to carry nonviable fetuses to term, risking their own lives and future reproductive ability, and little girls who are incest victims will be forced to give birth. American women are outraged by this and will vote accordingly. Yes, but I am talking about before RvW. the change that gave that protection in Federal Law was carried out by politicians who believed it was the right thing to do - just as the reversal has been carried by people who believe it was the right thing to do. There are no inherited rights.That depends where you live. The US Constitution recognises that certain universal rights are naturally given to every individual at birth and are retained throughout life, and that these rights are beyond the control of a government and can’t be taken away by legislation. These rights are not bestowed by law, custom, or belief, and cannot be taken, given away or transferred to another person. They are referred to as “inalienable rights.” The framers of the Constitution acknowledged the inalienable rights of man in this phrase from the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” Only under carefully limited circumstances can such natural rights be taken away as people have the freedom to exercise them as they choose. Some of the rights that, in America, are generally accepted as inalienable are: To act in self-defense To own private property To work and enjoy the fruits of one’s labor To move freely within the county or to another country To worship or refrain from worshipping within a freely-chosen religion To be secure in one’s home To think freely |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 12, 2024 6:44:22 GMT
Yes, but I am talking about before RvW. the change that gave that protection in Federal Law was carried out by politicians who believed it was the right thing to do - just as the reversal has been carried by people who believe it was the right thing to do. There are no inherited rights.That depends where you live. The US Constitution recognises that certain universal rights are naturally given to every individual at birth and are retained throughout life, and that these rights are beyond the control of a government and can’t be taken away by legislation. These rights are not bestowed by law, custom, or belief, and cannot be taken, given away or transferred to another person. They are referred to as “inalienable rights.” The framers of the Constitution acknowledged the inalienable rights of man in this phrase from the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” Only under carefully limited circumstances can such natural rights be taken away as people have the freedom to exercise them as they choose. Some of the rights that, in America, are generally accepted as inalienable are: To act in self-defense To own private property To work and enjoy the fruits of one’s labor To move freely within the county or to another country To worship or refrain from worshipping within a freely-chosen religion To be secure in one’s home To think freely The US Constitution was written by politicians who believed in certain rights - another group of politicians (or the same group at a different time) could have come up with a different list of rights. The Constitution has been continually amended since its inception - it is not a document that is designed to be the final word. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 12, 2024 8:30:51 GMT
1) Anyone who is divorced is NOT a real Christian. 2) Anyone who has committed adultery is NOT a real Christian. 3) Anyone who follows a denomination that is divorced from Roman Catholicism is NOT a real Christian. 4) Anyone who follows a path of personal greed is NOT a real Christian (Man cannot serve both God and money). There are numerous actions of the Christian Church over the centuries that demonstrate it is not now, and has never been, an worthy arbiter of morality. All The Best It ended the slave trade. Slaves were the normal thing in African culture. William Wilberforce was Anglican - so not a real Christian either. Like most people who claim to be Christian you seem to have an alarming lack of understanding about Christianity, its morality, and its history. Have you ever actually read the bible cover to cover? I have - twice. Do you understand why the Gospel Of Thomas is considered apocryphal and was expunged from the "official version" of the bible at the Council Of Nicaea in AD 325? If you have actually read the bible, did you actually understand any of it? All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 12, 2024 8:36:45 GMT
Not if that belief is also demonstrably true. Such as the belief that in the decimal system 2+2=4. If a belief is demonstrably trye it becomes a Fact. All The Best How do you demonstrate truth. I can take 2 pieces and another 2 pieces and I can make four as being demonstrably true but if someone beats the shit out of me every time I do not make it five i t becomes demonstrably true that it is five and that becomes fact. Punishment of wrong think is active all the time and facts are becoming ever more difficult to ascertain. No it doesn't. There is no way at all using Decimal that 2+2 can =5. There just isn't. You can lie, out of fear, that it becomes 5, and that lie can become habitual and ingrained, but is still does not become true. Are you the kind of person that can be cowed into admitting what you know to be false is actually true? I've taken a beating, lost a job, lost two so-called "friends", a relationship, and at least 3 promotions, simply because I refuse to say something is true when I know it isn't. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 12, 2024 8:40:29 GMT
No-one is bashing Christians. I have said that all deserve representation regardless of their religion or lack of it. I respect your right to religion. Please respect my right to atheism. I'm just wondering why the thread topic has been derailed and find it even more bizarre that atheists are so relaxed about Islam and yet so hostile toward Christianity. I find it all quite irrational. I'm not religious, so it would seem that you're not preaching for the Atheist denomination. 1) I am not an atheist. 2) I find Islam, Judaism and Christianity equally objectionable, and equally of dubious moral worth. 3) Religion should not be a matter of state, no religious organisation should receive either direct, or indirect (tax breaks, charitable status etc), funding from general taxation. 4) All religions, as long as they abide by the law, and do not seek special legal exemptions, should be equally tolerated. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 12, 2024 8:43:09 GMT
Of course you may be influenced by religion in the privacy of your own home. What I'm saying is that politicians shouldn't allow their personal religious beliefs to get in the way of public policy. Religion should not prescribe public policy. Government should not impose religious practices on the unwilling. The USA government print dollar bills with "In God We Trust" on every single one. I think God is highly entrenched in USA government. But not their culture, where there is mainly self-delusional, lip-service, adherence to Christian values. All The Best |
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