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Post by morayloon on Oct 12, 2022 4:07:37 GMT
The SNP wants to control the YES movement www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/scottish-news/23034562.snp-calls-new-code-conduct-yes-movement-referendum-campaign/YES is a grassroots, wide-based group of organisations comprising people of all political persuasion (e.g. it is reckoned that even a small %age of the Tory vote backs our country's freedom) and none. They want us to accept their 'code of conduct' in a top down takeover. These YES groups are autonomous but in the Highlands most groups have loosely come together, forming YES Highlands & Islands a sort of 'talking shop' with groups ranging from Shetland to Argyll & Bute and from the Western Isles to Moray. Delegates from the groups meet, via zoom, once a month. Quite what they will make of the SNPs power grab is anyone's guess but I, for one, won't be railroaded into allowing a takeover by Sturgeon's boot boys. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 4:41:00 GMT
They seem to just want an agreed-upon / consensus-built code of conduct for the Yes movement, one which doesn't mimic the internal SNP code of conduct.
This may be to reign in some of the antics of feistier YES campaigners, such as those in Alba who are not averse to dirtier tactics.
Can't see how an agreed-upon clean code of conduct would be a bad thing personally, but open to persuasion.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 4:44:10 GMT
The Brit Nats love this Scot infighting - among Alba and SNP and among other factions in each movement, trying to divide them into ever smaller sects who are at each other's throats rather than a united whole.
Once independence is achieved then you are in safe(r) territory; you can have a completely independent political environment - with many interesting parties (as they have in the continent - sometimes with new parties popping up (that win power) every 2-3 years or less) - which could be interesting.
Until such a time (as indy is achieved) it may be counter-productive to splinter the movement too much, of course everyone has their limits - and for some, Nicola Sturgeon's wokeness (which, from what I've read, does get rather extreme at times and can be grating) may be the final straw, but one must look at the bigger picture here. The Brit Nats are loving all this infighting and I'm just saying don't give them what they want.
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Post by buccaneer on Oct 12, 2022 9:40:53 GMT
The SNP wants to control the YES movement www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/scottish-news/23034562.snp-calls-new-code-conduct-yes-movement-referendum-campaign/YES is a grassroots, wide-based group of organisations comprising people of all political persuasion (e.g. it is reckoned that even a small %age of the Tory vote backs our country's freedom) and none. They want us to accept their 'code of conduct' in a top down takeover. These YES groups are autonomous but in the Highlands most groups have loosely come together, forming YES Highlands & Islands a sort of 'talking shop' with groups ranging from Shetland to Argyll & Bute and from the Western Isles to Moray. Delegates from the groups meet, via zoom, once a month. Quite what they will make of the SNPs power grab is anyone's guess but I, for one, won't be railroaded into allowing a takeover by Sturgeon's boot boys. More fool you SNAT. You only now realise Sturgeon's penchant for central authority. Expect more of where this came from.  |
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Post by jaydee on Oct 12, 2022 9:55:08 GMT
The SNP wants to control the YES movement www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/scottish-news/23034562.snp-calls-new-code-conduct-yes-movement-referendum-campaign/YES is a grassroots, wide-based group of organisations comprising people of all political persuasion (e.g. it is reckoned that even a small %age of the Tory vote backs our country's freedom) and none. They want us to accept their 'code of conduct' in a top down takeover. These YES groups are autonomous but in the Highlands most groups have loosely come together, forming YES Highlands & Islands a sort of 'talking shop' with groups ranging from Shetland to Argyll & Bute and from the Western Isles to Moray. Delegates from the groups meet, via zoom, once a month. Quite what they will make of the SNPs power grab is anyone's guess but I, for one, won't be railroaded into allowing a takeover by Sturgeon's boot boys. More fool you SNAT. You only now realise Sturgeon's penchant for central authority. Expect more of where this came from. Expect more of what. And what do you expect of Truss |
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Post by morayloon on Oct 12, 2022 10:49:42 GMT
They seem to just want an agreed-upon / consensus-built code of conduct for the Yes movement, one which doesn't mimic the internal SNP code of conduct. This may be to reign in some of the antics of feistier YES campaigners, such as those in Alba who are not averse to dirtier tactics. Can't see how an agreed-upon clean code of conduct would be a bad thing personally, but open to persuasion. They want to impose their will on the YES movement. To bring it under their control. What right does the SNP have to dictate to non SNP (even SNP members) how they should act. You'll have to expand on your Alba accusation. Bring some evidence to the table. It will only be agreed upon by SNP members, the rest of us will run a mile! The beauty of the YES movement was (is) that it comprises a group of autonomous grassroots organisations and that is what the Party did (does) not like. The SNP has set out to bring it to heel and bring it under Sturgeon's control |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 12, 2022 10:57:25 GMT
British unionism is not the same as nationalism.
The separatists will not break the union.
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Post by morayloon on Oct 12, 2022 11:06:01 GMT
The Brit Nats love this Scot infighting - among Alba and SNP and among other factions in each movement, trying to divide them into ever smaller sects who are at each other's throats rather than a united whole. Once independence is achieved then you are in safe(r) territory; you can have a completely independent political environment - with many interesting parties (as they have in the continent - sometimes with new parties popping up (that win power) every 2-3 years or less) - which could be interesting. Until such a time (as indy is achieved) it may be counter-productive to splinter the movement too much, of course everyone has their limits - and for some, Nicola Sturgeon's wokeness (which, from what I've read, does get rather extreme at times and can be grating) may be the final straw, but one must look at the bigger picture here. The Brit Nats are loving all this infighting and I'm just saying don't give them what they want. Alba was born out of the anti Salmond crusade of the upper echelons of the SNP' The bile from the SNP towards Alba has been an eye opener. They say that Alba wants to split the Independence vote but the evidence shows otherwise. In 2021 Alba supporters were urged to vote SNP 1 and Alba 2. The reasoning was simple: the SNP was the only Independence party that could win FPTP seats and Alba fully recognised the fact. Another fact was that the SNP being very successful in the constituencies were not going to win many list seats. And so it turned out - 2 seats for over 1 million votes, an abysmal return . Alba had asked SNP supporters to back them on the list to ensure an Independence super majority. The SNP would not play ball and the inevitable happened. |
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Post by buccaneer on Oct 12, 2022 11:46:03 GMT
Alba was born out of the anti Salmond crusade of the upper echelons of the SNP' The bile from the SNP towards Alba has been an eye opener. They say that Alba wants to split the Independence vote but the evidence shows otherwise. In 2021 Alba supporters were urged to vote SNP 1 and Alba 2. The reasoning was simple: the SNP was the only Independence party that could win FPTP seats and Alba fully recognised the fact. Another fact was that the SNP being very successful in the constituencies were not going to win many list seats. And so it turned out - 2 seats for over 1 million votes, an abysmal return . Alba had asked SNP supporters to back them on the list to ensure an Independence super majority. The SNP would not play ball and the inevitable happened. You've encouraged that self-aggrandising authoritarian to the egotistical SNAT she has become. It's gone to her head and you've legitimised her authoritarian ways. Therefore, you reap what you sow. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 12:58:04 GMT
They want to impose their will on the YES movement. To bring it under their control. That may well be the case, but the link you provided in OP doesn't back that, in my humble opinion.
None. That's why it should be a consensus based decision agreed upon by all (or many) involved.
I could continue but I really don't want to - do not want to further besmirch Alba and contribute to the infighting, but you asked for evidence so I simply obliged.
Agreed.
Still seen no proof this is definitively the case, it wouldn't surprise me but OP does not back it.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 12, 2022 15:05:58 GMT
Scots-nats infighting is hilarious. Popcorn time.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 15:09:35 GMT
The Brit Nats love this Scot infighting - among Alba and SNP and among other factions in each movement, trying to divide them into ever smaller sects who are at each other's throats rather than a united whole. Once independence is achieved then you are in safe(r) territory; you can have a completely independent political environment - with many interesting parties (as they have in the continent - sometimes with new parties popping up (that win power) every 2-3 years or less) - which could be interesting. Until such a time (as indy is achieved) it may be counter-productive to splinter the movement too much, of course everyone has their limits - and for some, Nicola Sturgeon's wokeness (which, from what I've read, does get rather extreme at times and can be grating) may be the final straw, but one must look at the bigger picture here. The Brit Nats are loving all this infighting and I'm just saying don't give them what they want. Alba was born out of the anti Salmond crusade of the upper echelons of the SNP' The bile from the SNP towards Alba has been an eye opener. They say that Alba wants to split the Independence vote but the evidence shows otherwise. In 2021 Alba supporters were urged to vote SNP 1 and Alba 2. The reasoning was simple: the SNP was the only Independence party that could win FPTP seats and Alba fully recognised the fact. Another fact was that the SNP being very successful in the constituencies were not going to win many list seats. And so it turned out - 2 seats for over 1 million votes, an abysmal return . Alba had asked SNP supporters to back them on the list to ensure an Independence super majority. The SNP would not play ball and the inevitable happened. That is fair. IMHO, Alba should modify their overall political approach but each to their own. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 15:12:58 GMT
Scots-nats infighting is hilarious. Popcorn time. It's been going on for some time in Scotland.. 
I am not a Scot Nat, I am an English Nat who wants independence for England also - and a fully independent English parliament, but I respect and like the Scots and feel they deserve their own independence from us. It's not about "getting rid" of Scotland as some people want (for me), but about doing what's right for them and that is giving them a vote on their own independence, same with places like Catalunya and countless others that wish to go their separate way.
Also same on a more local level in England with all politics being dictated from Westminster, where the North and West should be controlling their own affairs and not dictated to from London (I'm not calling for independence but just more autonomy and local decision making).
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Post by morayloon on Oct 12, 2022 17:56:48 GMT
They want to impose their will on the YES movement. To bring it under their control. That may well be the case, but the link you provided in OP doesn't back that, in my humble opinion.
None. That's why it should be a consensus based decision agreed upon by all (or many) involved.
I could continue but I really don't want to - do not want to further besmirch Alba and contribute to the infighting, but you asked for evidence so I simply obliged.
Agreed.
Still seen no proof this is definitively the case, it wouldn't surprise me but OP does not back it. The OP was a newspaper coverage of Mike Russell's proposal. He was not at all likely to say that the true aim was control of the YES movement, was he? I wonder how many YESers will sign up to this absurd piece of control freakery? Hopefully not a lot. The Party ignored YES for years now they are trying to control it. My gut feling given what you say about Alba is that you are of the SNP persuasion prone to make unfounded accusations about Alba. Alex Salmond's RT show was independently produced with no input from RT whatsoever. So, what's your point? So, you trawled the web and could only come up with one 'activist'. He is a polish immigrant with links to pro-Russian parties in Poland. Was it ever in doubt as to who's side he would take. The P&J reported he was 'touted' as a prospective candidate for an Aberdeen ward. How much truth in the statement? The man never even lodged papers. There are two sides to every story wingsoverscotland.com/if-it-hit-you-in-the-eye/ No doubt you'll be rushing to knock my source but are you trying to say that your's has told the whole story? Far from besmirching Alba you have only found two, dodgy examples. The media and the SNP have tried to 'besmirch' Alex Salmond. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 18:29:47 GMT
That may well be the case, but the link you provided in OP doesn't back that, in my humble opinion.
None. That's why it should be a consensus based decision agreed upon by all (or many) involved.
I could continue but I really don't want to - do not want to further besmirch Alba and contribute to the infighting, but you asked for evidence so I simply obliged.
Agreed.
Still seen no proof this is definitively the case, it wouldn't surprise me but OP does not back it. The OP was a newspaper coverage of Mike Russell's proposal. He was not at all likely to say that the true aim was control of the YES movement, was he? I wonder how many YESers will sign up to this absurd piece of control freakery? Hopefully not a lot. The Party ignored YES for years now they are trying to control it. My gut feling given what you say about Alba is that you are of the SNP persuasion prone to make unfounded accusations about Alba. Alex Salmond's RT show was independently produced with no input from RT whatsoever. So, what's your point? So, you trawled the web and could only come up with one 'activist'. He is a polish immigrant with links to pro-Russian parties in Poland. Was it ever in doubt as to who's side he would take. The P&J reported he was 'touted' as a prospective candidate for an Aberdeen ward. How much truth in the statement? The man never even lodged papers. There are two sides to every story wingsoverscotland.com/if-it-hit-you-in-the-eye/ No doubt you'll be rushing to knock my source but are you trying to say that your's has told the whole story? Far from besmirching Alba you have only found two, dodgy examples. The media and the SNP have tried to 'besmirch' Alex Salmond.
Your post is kind of hard to read as it's formatted improperly, but no worries (also no offence intended - just pointing it out).
You appeared to accuse me of being of the SNP persuasion. That is simply untrue. There are many valid criticisms one can make of the SNP and its leadership, but again I do not wish to do that or contribute to any further infighting or detraction from the Indy cause. You seem to have plenty of criticism to level at the SNP yourself - so I will let you do that [not that I feel it's particularly productive on here and simply gives ammo to Brit Nats to shoot you with (again just my opinion but up to you)].
The Wings Over Scotland piece you link is interesting:
I agree that is concerning as definitions go. And have these guys you are pointing fingers at explicitly endorsed this definition? Have Stonewall? Have the Scottish government? They provided funding to them but are you sure they even know about this definition being peddled by some obscure organisation that even the blog had no idea about...?
It's very weak sauce I'm afraid, Moray - must do better to paraphrase you. You're probably right - my own source hasn't told the whole story, but yours is still pretty weak as it goes.
You admit that my accusations are not unfounded in your own post when you say Salmond was on RT, so how is that unfounded? You admit the accusation about the Polish activist was also true and yet Alba have done nothing about it AFAIK. If he never lodged papers to represent Aberdeen ward then fair enough but why is he still an activist?
A lot of people have tried to tar Salmond with false accusations, but AFAIK mine are not false and I've been careful about what I say. Or maybe you did not appreciate that.
In any case, it would be more productive to coalesce around your common cause rather than promoting fighting against the SNP and others in the Indy movement, or at least if you do then better not to do it in such an open arena - where Brit Nats will simply use it as ammo against you and are laughing at you (look at posts by other users in this thread for examples).
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