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Post by andrewbrown on Jul 29, 2024 8:58:13 GMT
It seems over the last few years that there's almost a complete reversal of ethos of the 2 main parties.
The Tories were always the party of cutting spending, with the Labour Party the party of invest to accumulate.
Then this morning we read that there is a possibility of Rachel Reeves cancelling Boris's New Hospitals fund. But when did the Tories become the investing party and Labour fiscally responsible?
Is this reversal of polarity, is this a factor in both parties losing some of their core support?
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 29, 2024 9:04:21 GMT
We've had two left wing parties, Labour and Tories, hence the reason Reform did well, no one can tell the difference between Labour and the Tories, the sad thing is the Tories still don't get it.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jul 29, 2024 9:11:30 GMT
So you think that Boris's Hospitals for the Future and Labour's potential cancellation of said programme is "the same"?
If so, what would be Reform's position that would be different?
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 29, 2024 9:21:01 GMT
So you think that Boris's Hospitals for the Future and Labour's potential cancellation of said programme is "the same"? If so, what would be Reform's position that would be different? I don't know what Reform's position is, nor do Labour and the Tories, they conned the voters with lots of nonsense, and stuff that was never going to happen it just sounded good for votes, but true to form Labour got elected and everything Starmer said he's already backtracked in the first three weeks, Starmer was so desperate to be Prime Minister he would have sold his soul to the Devil. |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 29, 2024 9:36:05 GMT
If the Tories had just cut” Boris's New Hospitals fund” would the lefties be hailing it as fiscally responsible?
Also Labour has never been seen as the party of invest to accumulate….it was and always has been seen as the party of ‘ tax and spend ‘.
Labour has been in power for five minutes yet their cult members are already re writing history.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 29, 2024 9:49:04 GMT
So you think that Boris's Hospitals for the Future and Labour's potential cancellation of said programme is "the same"? If so, what would be Reform's position that would be different? It's not a single policy, it's the entire ethos of the centrist/left leaning political establishment and when I say political establishment I'm not just talking about political parties lets face it, it's hardly a secret the civil service are left wing. Because we are comfortable and comfortable people tend not to rock the boat the political elite have for years ignored the vast majority in this country. Brexit springs to mind, but things will change. The English may be slow to anger, but anger they will. In years to come as this government flood the country with aggressive muslims from the EU who are pushed to the front of the housing queue, resentment will build and I have every confidence the police will come down hard on nationalist/English 'racists', which will in turn increase resentment. Only a fool could think this will not end in tears. Perhaps not next month, or next year, but this will end in tears. |
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Post by piglet on Jul 29, 2024 9:55:51 GMT
Only lefties with no concept of the value of money can get us into this mess, being responsible has been forced on Labour. I refer to the Tories. The tories must change their name, they are not.
Tory.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 29, 2024 10:01:40 GMT
So you think that Boris's Hospitals for the Future and Labour's potential cancellation of said programme is "the same"? If so, what would be Reform's position that would be different? It's not a single policy, it's the entire ethos of the centrist/left leaning political establishment and when I say political establishment I'm not just talking about political parties lets face it, it's hardly a secret the civil service are left wing. Because we are comfortable and comfortable people tend not to rock the boat the political elite have for years ignored the vast majority in this country. Brexit springs to mind, but things will change. The English may be slow to anger, but anger they will. In years to come as this government flood the country with aggressive muslims from the EU who are pushed to the front of the housing queue, resentment will build and I have every confidence the police will come down hard on nationalist/English 'racists', which will in turn increase resentment. Only a fool could think this will not end in tears. Perhaps not next month, or next year, but this will end in tears. All true except that the police won't be coming down hard on anything. Policing is being quietly dismantled and no one is joining. When a Far Right do eventually emerge there won't be enough police left to stand in their way and probably no willingness to do so. Good. 😎 |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 29, 2024 10:14:20 GMT
Anyways, back to the plot: I said a while back that the best case scenario is that Labour turn out to be much the same as the Tories.
And it's looking like that's how it'll pan out.
They can promise what they like in opposition but once in power they are subject to exactly the same constraints.
Unless of course they go full retard which is always a possibility with Labour.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 29, 2024 10:22:19 GMT
So you think that Boris's Hospitals for the Future and Labour's potential cancellation of said programme is "the same"? If so, what would be Reform's position that would be different? Johnson was a total lunatic and a clown. Why would you not wish to cancel all his clown ideas and appointments of other clowns?
You need to look at the NHS intelligently, like with a business head on. The answer is not to build more hospitals, as if that would solve the problem. The answer is to make each hospital more efficient. The better the job you do in treating someone the faster they recover and the less likely they will have to return. Indeed better still, go for preventative medicine. Try and detect the earliest signs of a potential medical problem and make the necessary adjustments so it ceases to develop into a larger problem. The Brits do such stupid things that some medical problems are bound to develop. Diet is a big issue. The other way to reduce the need to hospital buildings is to use more machines. Machines are very good at monitoring a patient's health and very good at interpreting data from the machines that do this. Wrong diagnoses is a major cause of inefficiency. Besides even if you did have extra hospitals, where would you get the extra staff from?
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Post by bancroft on Jul 29, 2024 10:31:38 GMT
Working class whites do not have enough disposable income to have more than one kid due to too much money going on housing, mostly mortgages or rents. That was my impression in banking where a lot were woman with working husbands.
So we need more immigrants.
However there is a housing shortage and immigration makes this worse so prices go up.
One thing I have noticed is the army of helpers that go to the homes of older people living at home and getting old with elderly complaints, what happens here is if the council provided care at home they take most of the home value when they die relatives get a small amount back. The cost of keeping oldies at home is probably 200k immigrants servicing this need. This is why some use trusts to stop the council grabbing money back.
Another factor is having compliant people in cafes and restaurants instead of what used to be grumpy Brits.
Then we have the others that will do either unpleasant / antisocial jobs or dangerous jobs on lower money mostly in construction.
It certainly is not easy, was watching East Europeans getting up at 3m working for Cornish fisherman and they agree with Brits against French fisherman illegally trying to fish in our waters. Brit kids don't want these jobs.
We also have universities accepting high fee paying foreigners who since Brexit are mostly Asian and so bring their older relatives - culture.
I'm not sure how any party can successfully navigate the above to satisfy the electorate.
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Post by ratcliff on Jul 29, 2024 10:33:56 GMT
It seems over the last few years that there's almost a complete reversal of ethos of the 2 main parties. The Tories were always the party of cutting spending, with the Labour Party the party of invest to accumulate. Then this morning we read that there is a possibility of Rachel Reeves cancelling Boris's New Hospitals fund. But when did the Tories become the investing party and Labour fiscally responsible? Is this reversal of polarity, is this a factor in both parties losing some of their core support?
Any party that claims that the (fully transparent )financial situation of the country is a surprise , doles out vast handout packages to spongers with lazyitis and wants huge wage increases to overmanned public sector workers can never be described as ''fiscally responsible'' |
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Post by ratcliff on Jul 29, 2024 10:39:47 GMT
So you think that Boris's Hospitals for the Future and Labour's potential cancellation of said programme is "the same"? If so, what would be Reform's position that would be different? Johnson was a total lunatic and a clown. Why would you not wish to cancel all his clown ideas and appointments of other clowns?
You need to look at the NHS intelligently, like with a business head on. The answer is not to build more hospitals, as if that would solve the problem. The answer is to make each hospital more efficient. The better the job you do in treating someone the faster they recover and the less likely they will have to return. Indeed better still, go for preventative medicine. Try and detect the earliest signs of a potential medical problem and make the necessary adjustments so it ceases to develop into a larger problem. The Brits do such stupid things that some medical problems are bound to develop. Diet is a big issue. The other way to reduce the need to hospital buildings is to use more machines. Machines are very good at monitoring a patient's health and very good at interpreting data from the machines that do this. Wrong diagnoses is a major cause of inefficiency. Besides even if you did have extra hospitals, where would you get the extra staff from?
I would tend to agree with the rider that the NHS must have a complete change of attitude , it should be run for the benefit of sick patients , not for the benefit of staff as currently happens . Those wanting to become eunuchs or who want their Prince Charles ears pinned back etc should have to pay privately in full for all treatments |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 29, 2024 10:51:21 GMT
With regards to the NHS, it does seem to have a problem with productivity every time it gets more money.
During the Blair years when it had a large increase in funding productivity fell - the same happened under Johnson, a massive increase in funding and it's now doing less work than it did before.
Wes Streeting is making some good noises but it remains to be seen whether he will be allowed to deliver. Labour Health Ministers not having a good record at reform - to many vested interests in the Party.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 29, 2024 12:21:03 GMT
With regards to the NHS, it does seem to have a problem with productivity every time it gets more money. During the Blair years when it had a large increase in funding productivity fell - the same happened under Johnson, a massive increase in funding and it's now doing less work than it did before. Wes Streeting is making some good noises but it remains to be seen whether he will be allowed to deliver. Labour Health Ministers not having a good record at reform - to many vested interests in the Party. The problem with more money for public services is that it doesn't go into the front line. The reason that productivity falls with every funding uplift is because it gets spent on extra tiers of self-serving, parasitic middle management while the front line remains under-resourced while suffering an increased bureaucratic burden courtesy of the extra "Management". |
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