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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Jul 20, 2024 19:56:19 GMT
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 21, 2024 6:23:20 GMT
I've thought that for a long time - there has to be more to it than totally random mutation and preferential selection of mutations that confer an advantage. This puts it mathematically that the mutations that simply degrade the genome are 10 to the power 77 more frequent than beneficial ones. Which is interesting.
But you see, say, mutations of moths that give them a darker coloration appearing very rapidly if their environment becomes darker because of pollution. How is that possible unless there is some kind of mechanism to deliberately trigger beneficial changes.
There's a lot of science to discover about evolution. Darwin's theory was good but it's not the end of the story.
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Post by sandypine on Jul 21, 2024 7:50:32 GMT
I've thought that for a long time - there has to be more to it than totally random mutation and preferential selection of mutations that confer an advantage. This puts it mathematically that the mutations that simply degrade the genome are 10 to the power 77 more frequent than beneficial ones. Which is interesting. But you see, say, mutations of moths that give them a darker coloration appearing very rapidly if their environment becomes darker because of pollution. How is that possible unless there is some kind of mechanism to deliberately trigger beneficial changes. There's a lot of science to discover about evolution. Darwin's theory was good but it's not the end of the story. There is, there is survival pressure on ensuring that only the beneficial changes work and carry on. The non beneficial changes disappear in the blink of an eye and the beneficial changes progress on as it is all happening at the molecular level and realistically that is the only area that counts. Perhaps there is a gene that has arisen that targets mutations and only switches on as survival pressure is sensed in some way from the environmental feedback. I agree though there is much as yet unknown |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 21, 2024 7:59:33 GMT
The dinosaurs evolved into birds via teradactylls etc. Something clever must have happened to evolve wings and feathers. I don't think it was just random chance.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 21, 2024 8:08:08 GMT
I've thought that for a long time - there has to be more to it than totally random mutation and preferential selection of mutations that confer an advantage. This puts it mathematically that the mutations that simply degrade the genome are 10 to the power 77 more frequent than beneficial ones. Which is interesting. But you see, say, mutations of moths that give them a darker coloration appearing very rapidly if their environment becomes darker because of pollution. How is that possible unless there is some kind of mechanism to deliberately trigger beneficial changes. There's a lot of science to discover about evolution. Darwin's theory was good but it's not the end of the story. There is a mechanism that alters the next generation's genes based on the environment of the previous. It's known as epigenetic. |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 21, 2024 8:09:34 GMT
Does this ‘ mechanism ‘ or ‘ something clever’ live in the sky surrounded by Angels or have we found another place for it to live ?
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 21, 2024 8:43:16 GMT
Does this ‘ mechanism ‘ or ‘ something clever’ live in the sky surrounded by Angels or have we found another place for it to live ?  |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 21, 2024 8:52:23 GMT
Does this ‘ mechanism ‘ or ‘ something clever’ live in the sky surrounded by Angels or have we found another place for it to live ? Virus? The virus isn’t a mechanism . It’s the result of a mechanism . We all know complex things exist . |
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Post by Dubdrifter on Jul 21, 2024 9:16:47 GMT
I've thought that for a long time - there has to be more to it than totally random mutation and preferential selection of mutations that confer an advantage. This puts it mathematically that the mutations that simply degrade the genome are 10 to the power 77 more frequent than beneficial ones. Which is interesting. But you see, say, mutations of moths that give them a darker coloration appearing very rapidly if their environment becomes darker because of pollution. How is that possible unless there is some kind of mechanism to deliberately trigger beneficial changes. There's a lot of science to discover about evolution. Darwin's theory was good but it's not the end of the story. So when it comes to sourcing the ‘Intelligence’ behind the Earth Eden Project …. surely we are looking at the only evidence we have … left behind in Human History …. highly advanced alien visitation … civilisations with the technology and ability to fast track genetically engineer … referenced in every tribes ancient folklore … labelled by scientists as ‘fiction’ … now acknowledged as mathematical FACT?? THE ONLY INTELLIGENCE (sky gods) that we know could have created the mathematically super rapid evolution of the incredibly well-adapted Dinosaurs … and latterly Earth Human variants to rise and fall into the oozing deposits of a 4+billion year cooled earth that could support these protein/DNA configurations that lived and breathed like us … whose existence was proven only in the last 300 years … as we struggled to rationalise their evolutionary timelines. The next Big Question … would be to ask these ALIEN CREATORS where they originated from ?? - (when Americans stop shooting down their drones … and implementing Star Wars programmes - maybe we can make PEACE TALK overtures? - wouldn’t that be a ‘good idea’? ) … we could discuss with them the mathematical probability of their ‘random’ emergence billions of years ago ? …. as the ‘Universe’ materialised … ? ….my guess is their ‘design’ originated from another dimension … an ethereal number of non-physical ‘universes’ where this ‘Intelligence’ ultimately resides …. which brings us back to a God-element …. proven by mathematical probability! …. Scientists are hating this moment of realisation ….the PROOF aliens and God exists in one simple discussion thread! - and some very elementary mathematics.🤣😂 …it was staring them in the face … but they refused to acknowledge it. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 21, 2024 10:18:28 GMT
The dinosaurs evolved into birds via teradactylls etc. Something clever must have happened to evolve wings and feathers. I don't think it was just random chance. Of course it did because by this time genes were quite sophisticated in reacting to whatever pressures were placed upon them. They can switch on and off, they can do different things dependent on how the environment demands. By the time of the dinosaurs they had had billions of years to get their act together to survive and that is exactly what they did. In the early days the random event producing something beneficial is calculated seemingly of so much to one but what is 'beneficial' may also be an astronomical number as the paths to survival are many and varied. |
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Post by Dubdrifter on Jul 21, 2024 11:16:21 GMT
The dinosaurs evolved into birds via teradactylls etc. Something clever must have happened to evolve wings and feathers. I don't think it was just random chance. Of course it did because by this time genes were quite sophisticated in reacting to whatever pressures were placed upon them. They can switch on and off, they can do different things dependent on how the environment demands. By the time of the dinosaurs they had had billions of years to get their act together to survive and that is exactly what they did. In the early days the random event producing something beneficial is calculated seemingly of so much to one but what is 'beneficial' may also be an astronomical number as the paths to survival are many and varied. I think you are trying to credit ‘genes’ with some sort of ‘overview intelligence’ which they don’t have … genes are very vulnerable protein/DNA complexes … not thinking organisms that say … “let’s develop wings” …. the maths talked about in the OP … statistically proves ‘intelligent design’ … NOT Natural Selection … so NOT Gene-therapy. I hope you understand the serious implications of the OP discussion? … a hidden Life Force outside the consciousness of the Individual. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 21, 2024 15:19:45 GMT
Of course it did because by this time genes were quite sophisticated in reacting to whatever pressures were placed upon them. They can switch on and off, they can do different things dependent on how the environment demands. By the time of the dinosaurs they had had billions of years to get their act together to survive and that is exactly what they did. In the early days the random event producing something beneficial is calculated seemingly of so much to one but what is 'beneficial' may also be an astronomical number as the paths to survival are many and varied. I think you are trying to credit ‘genes’ with some sort of ‘overview intelligence’ which they don’t have … genes are very vulnerable protein/DNA complexes … not thinking organisms that say … “let’s develop wings” …. the maths talked about in the OP … statistically proves ‘intelligent design’ … NOT Natural Selection … so NOT Gene-therapy. I hope you understand the serious implications of the OP discussion? … a hidden Life Force outside the consciousness of the Individual. Not at all, but one has to recognise that a survival mechanism will operate in whatever way it can to survive. That is just the natural way of any survival mechanism. The gene has developed ways over time of surviving in most situations within which it has had to pass through. I fully understand what is being mathematically proposed but that in itself raises all the probability questions again. You have to separate genes from the large animal effects of genes that we see now. They are just the process writ large. The genes are the programme and random mutations are its way of surviving. This is not a conscious way of surviving nor is it a planned way of surviving it is just the culmination of billions of years of survival. The OP refers to mathematical probability of any gene randomly bringing into being a mutation that is beneficial, yet we do not have any quantification of what is beneficial, there may be at any one point billions of mutations that could occur that would be beneficial in some way and the ones that survived the best were the ones that progressed. In the same way that billions of those where the mutation would be detrimental would quickly be overcome and not be copied and not be carried on. In the modern sense sex is now the determinant of design and that process has been selected, not in a conscious way, by genes searching, not in a conscious way for a survival strategy. Sex mixes the genes efficiently and the designs that work best with this mixing quickly survive the best. It has been said that if size was an advantage in some way and food was abundant and no problem then mice would within a very few generations become the size of elephants. |
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Jul 21, 2024 17:23:24 GMT
Maybe there are "God" genes that only accept mutations for "testing" that fulfill certain criteria? Genes that receive signals from the whole structure that determine whether there is a chance of success? These genes could even perhaps stimulate mutations at certain locations?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2024 18:10:57 GMT
I'm happy with the story in Genesis, myself.
Those who are not, go make your own Universe, let us know how it goes.
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Jul 21, 2024 18:55:49 GMT
I'm happy with the story in Genesis, myself. Those who are not, go make your own Universe, let us know how it goes. In Roman times the Jews were called "Garlic eaters" ... because on their Sabbath, the day that God rested, they ate Garlic. It was on this seventh day that God, whilst resting, and a bit worse for wear from all his efforts, and needing something to restore his strength, created Allicin (Diallyl thiosulfinate). Finding it therapeutic he arranged for it to be available to mankind via the Garlic plant. |
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