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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 20, 2024 22:02:42 GMT
As a freelancer, i had three contract rates ‘Free of Charge’ ‘Market Rate’ ‘Six times market rate and a £500 callout charge’ The last one was for those who expected my phone to be working before 09:00 and after 17:00. It was written into every contract that my working day was 9 to 5 with an hour for lunch and that anyone expecting me to be available after that who wouldn’t pay the ‘open all hours’ contract rate was going to have to leave a message which will receive my attention at 09:00 tbe next day. Nobody ever accepted my open all hours rate, but nobody ever called me outside 9 to 5 I've never done freelance work myself, years ago I nearly did some contract work in Iraq of all places, I was offered two 12 month contacts back to back, with more to follow. The pay was eye watering. Unfortunately at that point in time... things were difficult on the domestic front. Should have stayed in the army but unfortunately I couldn't because unlike the RAF, in the army you have to be fit, so 22 is your lot. My elder daughter and her husband (then boyfriend) did very nicely as freelancers. She in PR, he in journalism. They're still doing their chosen professions but no longer freelancing, they were both offered jobs they couldn't turn down, I'm pleased to say. That was my ‘eventual’ exit strategy too. A phone call offered … well it wasn’t so much the salary, but the 17% employer contribution to the non-contributory (on my side) pension. If only lehmann bros had stayed solvent and the bottom not fallen out of the sub prime mortgage market (sigh) I got offered some freelance work in Kuwait after the first war ended. I was underbid or whatever the phrase is. The successful bidders failed to bribe the right people. They got home eventually…… |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 20, 2024 22:03:18 GMT
Must admit, I have never had it written into anything - it was just taken as normal. Or indeed, for granted. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 20, 2024 22:31:43 GMT
I've never done freelance work myself, years ago I nearly did some contract work in Iraq of all places, I was offered two 12 month contacts back to back, with more to follow. The pay was eye watering. Unfortunately at that point in time... things were difficult on the domestic front. Should have stayed in the army but unfortunately I couldn't because unlike the RAF, in the army you have to be fit, so 22 is your lot. My elder daughter and her husband (then boyfriend) did very nicely as freelancers. She in PR, he in journalism. They're still doing their chosen professions but no longer freelancing, they were both offered jobs they couldn't turn down, I'm pleased to say. That was my ‘eventual’ exit strategy too. A phone call offered … well it wasn’t so much the salary, but the 17% employer contribution to the non-contributory (on my side) pension. If only lehmann bros had stayed solvent and the bottom not fallen out of the sub prime mortgage market (sigh) I got offered some freelance work in Kuwait after the first war ended. I was underbid or whatever the phrase is. The successful bidders failed to bribe the right people. They got home eventually…… We did a bit of work in Kuwait, lol. No seriously, after the ceasefire someone much further up the food chain decided it would be a good idea to restore services in Kuwait city, water electricity things like that because the Iraqis blew everything up. Including bank vaults btw, Kuwait city, who wouldn't have blown the bank vaults. But as far as restoring essential services was concerned, we had a shit load of PE4 (plastic explosives) but not much in the way of plumbing kit, oddly enough. We used an ambulance station in Kuwait city as a base/HQ because it was structurally sound and had high walls. Locals although friendly to us, had a very annoying habit of shooting into the air, a solid ceiling and helmets were a must. Happy days. |
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Post by ratcliff on Jul 20, 2024 23:11:47 GMT
It's a ridiculous idea , there are 101 reasons why an evening email might be sent and that doesn't necessarily mean that said email needs to be dealt with immediately It could be in preparation for the next day (there was discussion some time ago on this forum that an adult worker who said that he is on the autistic spectrum and requires allocated jobs to be confirmed to him in writing on a to do list- if that waits till the following day the employee charged with writing to do lists will be unecssrily occupied handholding andthe worker will be doing SFA while waiting for the updated to do list) many businesses operate in different time zones and attention is needed outside 9-5, a job might require finishing after office hours etc etc On the face of it your comments may be seen as perfectly reasonable, however. In the example you gave in which an employer may want to email an employee, what happens if the employee says he doesn't have an email address? And it's no use saying oh come on everyone has email, the fact is an employer cannot 'require' an employee to have a mobile phone number or an email address which is why key personnel, supervisors/managers usually get company mobile phones/laptops. If they work for a company that communicates/buys/sells with email then the employee will have been given an individual company email address |
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Post by ratcliff on Jul 20, 2024 23:13:45 GMT
Blimey, I'm agreeing with Red here. I sometimes choose to deal with messages out of hours, but that's entirely my choice. It should not be a requirement to "move on" within a company. However if I'm away, I tend to delete my Work Outlook and Teams from my phone so I don't get tempted. I'll just come back to the shite that other people create for me. Just turn your out of office on when away |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 20, 2024 23:31:11 GMT
On the face of it your comments may be seen as perfectly reasonable, however. In the example you gave in which an employer may want to email an employee, what happens if the employee says he doesn't have an email address? And it's no use saying oh come on everyone has email, the fact is an employer cannot 'require' an employee to have a mobile phone number or an email address which is why key personnel, supervisors/managers usually get company mobile phones/laptops. If they work for a company that communicates/buys/sells with email then the employee will have been given an individual company email address Ratcliff, You're taking things for granted, as employers do. Believe it or not, it is not a legal requirement to have an email address or a mobile phone number. I accept most employers expect people to have them, but employers cannot require it. The reason most employers take it for granted that prospective or indeed current employees will hand over their email address and mobile phone number is because stupid people willingly hand over personal information without a second thought. It would be a brave, or possibly stupid employer who sacked an employee because he claimed he didn't have an email/mobile phone number. Especially if said employee was from a persecuted minority. |
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Post by ratcliff on Jul 20, 2024 23:37:20 GMT
If they work for a company that communicates/buys/sells with email then the employee will have been given an individual company email address Ratcliff, You're taking things for granted, as employers do. Believe it or not, it is not a legal requirement to have an email address or a mobile phone number. I accept most employers expect people to have them, but employers cannot require it. The reason most employers take it for granted that prospective or indeed current employees will hand over their email address and mobile phone number is because stupid people willingly hand over personal information without a second thought. It would be a brave, or possibly stupid employer who sacked an employee because he claimed he didn't have an email/mobile phone number. Especially if said employee was from a persecuted minority. I stated they will have an individual company email address for work purposes. They will not be using a personal account |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 20, 2024 23:46:50 GMT
Ratcliff, You're taking things for granted, as employers do. Believe it or not, it is not a legal requirement to have an email address or a mobile phone number. I accept most employers expect people to have them, but employers cannot require it. The reason most employers take it for granted that prospective or indeed current employees will hand over their email address and mobile phone number is because stupid people willingly hand over personal information without a second thought. It would be a brave, or possibly stupid employer who sacked an employee because he claimed he didn't have an email/mobile phone number. Especially if said employee was from a persecuted minority. I stated they will have an individual company email address for work purposes. They will not be using a personal account Again, you assume too much. It is not a legal requirement to have an email address. If a company requires an employee to have an email account or indeed a mobile phone, the company must provide them. The reason most companies don't provide them, unless you're a key worker, is because most people are stupid and give out any information to anyone who asks for it. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 20, 2024 23:53:22 GMT
Isn't this supposed to be the government for growth?
How will this hairbrain scheme affect Britain's dire productivity levels?
For many jobs 'communication' is vital for the day to day running of operations.
Most employees under good conscience and work ethic will make themselves accessible for communication in specific circumstances, those who won't will just want to milk another hairbrain scheme.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 21, 2024 0:25:46 GMT
Isn't this supposed to be the government for growth? How will this hairbrain scheme affect Britain's dire productivity levels? For many jobs 'communication' is vital for the day to day running of operations. Most employees under good conscience and work ethic will make themselves accessible for communication in specific circumstances, those who won't will just want to milk another hairbrain scheme. Indeed good communication is key, it's an absolute prerequisite, which is why key workers - supervisors/managers, are provided with company mobile phones/laptops. In my experience, other employees are expected to freely hand over their email address and mobile phone number, and the vast majority do. I never did, ever. Before I had a company phone I always took the view, I pay for my phone, if the company want to use it they can pay for it. But even then, the phone was a 'smart' phone that not only records your every message and conversation, but your location too. Which is why I left it in my desk drawer at work, see above. I have no mobile phone history and no social media history. Some people think this place is 'social media', lol. |
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Post by wapentake on Jul 21, 2024 0:37:51 GMT
Many years ago and you can tell how long early 90’s mobiles weren’t as universal as now.
Anyway landline call in the early hours problem with a production line,me ….use the next line they….we have to walk further (a few feet.)
Me **** off.
The attitude was you’re an emergency contact we’re working in the middle of the night so get it sorted,and such is politics of the workplace some people whether lowly operatives or high management are aholes so I can see why unless it’s life threatening or about to bankrupt a business this isn’t a bad idea.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 21, 2024 0:38:14 GMT
Blimey, I'm agreeing with Red here. I sometimes choose to deal with messages out of hours, but that's entirely my choice. It should not be a requirement to "move on" within a company. However if I'm away, I tend to delete my Work Outlook and Teams from my phone so I don't get tempted. I'll just come back to the shite that other people create for me. Just turn your out of office on when away I'd like to rig up one of those automated call systems and take them through 10 different menus and then play then some music for half an hour. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jul 21, 2024 5:39:22 GMT
Just turn your out of office on when away I'd like to rig up one of those automated call systems and take them through 10 different menus and then play then some music for half an hour. We're moving away from that now, you say you're query and AI will either answer you or put you through to the appropriate department. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 21, 2024 8:28:01 GMT
That was my ‘eventual’ exit strategy too. A phone call offered … well it wasn’t so much the salary, but the 17% employer contribution to the non-contributory (on my side) pension. If only lehmann bros had stayed solvent and the bottom not fallen out of the sub prime mortgage market (sigh) I got offered some freelance work in Kuwait after the first war ended. I was underbid or whatever the phrase is. The successful bidders failed to bribe the right people. They got home eventually…… We did a bit of work in Kuwait, lol. No seriously, after the ceasefire someone much further up the food chain decided it would be a good idea to restore services in Kuwait city, water electricity things like that because the Iraqis blew everything up. Including bank vaults btw, Kuwait city, who wouldn't have blown the bank vaults. But as far as restoring essential services was concerned, we had a shit load of PE4 (plastic explosives) but not much in the way of plumbing kit, oddly enough. We used an ambulance station in Kuwait city as a base/HQ because it was structurally sound and had high walls. Locals although friendly to us, had a very annoying habit of shooting into the air, a solid ceiling and helmets were a must. Happy days. I was on my first freelance contract. We had just put a data channel up across the INMARSAT satellites and I had a telex.... Would I be interested in joining a team to go to fix the telecomm tower Saddam's tanks had used for target practice near a sandbar called Um Al Aish or something like that. As it came to the machine in my client's site that I was using to test the land-side data reception on that system I assumed it was a piss take. I replied on that basis, but it really was the Saudi Ministry asking on behalf of the Kuwaitis... One apology later I was assembling a quote of Times Rich List proportions. Red Adair was still putting fires out..... I heard nothing. A year later I got a letter. Turns out they decided to delay the job. Now the fires were out and the desalination plants were back online. Would I like to revise my price in light of same and quote for a team if I had the ability to assemble one I called my uncle who worked for the Saudi merchant navy. For three per cent of the gross as his finders fee (yes, he gave me the friend and family discount, usually it was ten) he could swing us accomodation in the company armed guarded compound and protection detail on the site and he sent me those costs.... I assembled a quote which was about half per man of the previous one, but still a king's ransom. Prophetic phrase. Anyway I got back a thank you we'll let you know and that was that. About three months later they said they had received several bids and gone with another, who they revealed. I knew the company from the work they also did in the satcomms business. About right months after that, I was at a Halloween agency funded piss up and I bumped into a pal from the Satcomms job 'hey John did you hear about those guys going the Kuwait job... One day a jeep with armed blokes took them off to the north.... Next they've been arrested by Iraqis for crossing the border and they're in some hellhole prison awaiting a ransom payment' My first thought 'clearly the reason they were cheaper than me is they skimped on the armed guards' but I've never been happier to lose a contract to a lower bid. It was a different world Some time later i remember hearing some whiny arse hole at some other agency bash whingeing his last agency had gone bust so his guaranteed weekly paycheck was lost. I don't think he liked it when I said 'i don't think you understand what being "in business on your own account" means do you. It means knowing every time you write an invoice you also have to decide how far you'll go if they don't pay, whether to shrug it off because other work is paying you so much you can't waste the time, or whether the cost of chasing is too much, or whether you want your debtor found in bits in three plastic bags .... It doesn't matter which of those - or any other - you choose, but until you have to make that choice, as I have had to, you're not really a freelancer...." |
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Post by ratcliff on Jul 21, 2024 12:22:15 GMT
I stated they will have an individual company email address for work purposes. They will not be using a personal account Again, you assume too much. It is not a legal requirement to have an email address. If a company requires an employee to have an email account or indeed a mobile phone, the company must provide them. The reason most companies don't provide them, unless you're a key worker, is because most people are stupid and give out any information to anyone who asks for it. The company sets up work email accounts for individual staff, they are not using a personal email for work eg you request an insurance quote from the call centre of Direct line/Aviva or whoever - that staff member will confirm the quote to the potential customer using their personal work email . Potential customer might well read quote and decide to accept or raise a query outside office hours and email acceptance/question etc Any emails use the work account - if staff log into their work email out of hours that's up to them - there is no need for a blanket ban ( I'm sorry but I really do not understand why you are not getting this) |
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