|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 20, 2024 17:37:59 GMT
You want a halfway house where the employee can decide if he wants to take calls after hours as part of the job and if the agreement is he should not call except in exceptional circumstances then that should work pretty well. Most jobs are 9-5 so if it is after 5, why can't it wait until 9am. Perhaps someone is ill and the employer desperately needs someone else to cover and will give good money for the favour, then that would be reasonable. What would be unreasonable is pestering them for no good reason. It's not a case of a 'halfway house', it's about levels of responsibility. If you're in a position of responsibility you should reasonably, I would suggest, be contactable out of hours. Yes and that is fine, like you agree to it as part of the job, just as a doctor gets paid for being on call.
I used to know this woman in Malta who had a job with this guy, but he would call her all the time, and sometimes as late as 12 at night to talk about work the following day. He was a right bastard, but the woman needed the job and she was at her wits end over it. She could never plan anything and it screwed with her social life.I think that would be the kind of thing Labour are keen to get cut out. Lets hope they have enough intelligence to cut the balance right.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 20, 2024 17:41:34 GMT
I think its a daft idea - for my entire working life every role has needed me to be contactable in an emergency. It is simply part of the job. I can think of instances where this would turn into a disaster. Things tend to turn into disasters when stupid people are given the job of sorting it out. You want to separate out the difference between is it a good idea and can it be implemented properly. Like say I figured Brexit was a good idea, but the crap going on at Dover made it a disaster, chiefly because idiots were in charge who don't plan stuff. |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 20, 2024 17:49:06 GMT
I think its a daft idea - for my entire working life every role has needed me to be contactable in an emergency. It is simply part of the job. I can think of instances where this would turn into a disaster. Depends on the management. The expression: "A failure to plan properly on your part does not equal an emergency on mine." Comes to mind. My old job was notorious for pulling the "Exigency" card in situations that were just poor management. In the end goodwill was destroyed and we mostly refused to play the game anymore. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jul 20, 2024 17:49:14 GMT
In my previous role they desperately wanted me to have a work mobile and laptop and I steadfastly refused. They screwed enough out of me during the time I was at work. They could poke any extra curricular activity. In my experience my employer took far too much for granted. For whatever reason I was suddenly 'expected' to be contactable 24/7. It wasn't written into my contract or T&C's and in all honesty I may have been more accommodating had my line manager not been a fuckin idiot. OK, it may have been me being awkward to a small degree but as I've always said, civvies are crap at man management. |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 20, 2024 17:51:12 GMT
In my previous role they desperately wanted me to have a work mobile and laptop and I steadfastly refused. They screwed enough out of me during the time I was at work. They could poke any extra curricular activity. In my experience my employer took far too much for granted. For whatever reason I was suddenly 'expected' to be contactable 24/7. It wasn't written into my contract or T&C's and in all honesty I may have been more accommodating had my line manager not been a fuckin idiot. OK, it may have been me being awkward to a small degree but as I've always said, civvies are crap at man management. As you know, neither me nor my management were civvies. And the other kind, knowing we had no employment rights, were even fucking worse. |
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Jul 20, 2024 18:47:23 GMT
Blimey, I'm agreeing with Red here. I sometimes choose to deal with messages out of hours, but that's entirely my choice. It should not be a requirement to "move on" within a company. However if I'm away, I tend to delete my Work Outlook and Teams from my phone so I don't get tempted. I'll just come back to the shite that other people create for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jul 20, 2024 18:54:54 GMT
Blimey, I'm agreeing with Red here. I sometimes choose to deal with messages out of hours, but that's entirely my choice. It should not be a requirement to "move on" within a company. However if I'm away, I tend to delete my Work Outlook and Teams from my phone so I don't get tempted. I'll just come back to the shite that other people create for me. LOL, it was inevitable, sooner or later. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Jul 20, 2024 20:15:04 GMT
Back in the 90s I was getting phone calls from the night shift late at night because of some problem or other , sometimes when a ‘ key’ operator thought the night shift overseer was being unfair…ffs. I could handle that .
What I couldn’t handle was a phone call on Saturday morning telling me that a job needed to go out Sunday morning with ‘ it’s your department, deal with it “.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Jul 20, 2024 20:42:08 GMT
Angela Rayner’s plans to give workers a right to switch off threatens to create a “playground for ambulance chasers”, an employers’ group has claimed. A new survey by the Institute of Directors (IoD) found that most employers disagree with the Government’s plans to restrict contact with staff outside of working hours and fear a slew of legal action. One business leader in the health and social work sector told the IoD: “The ability to contact an employee ‘in extremis’ is valuable and, depending on the business and their role, potentially critical. www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/07/11/angela-rayner-right-to-switch-off-playground-ambulance/I have mixed feelings on this one. A quick anecdote; for reasons I wont bore you with I didn't want a company smart phone but apparently I had no choice so reluctantly I acquiesced. However it became a bone of contention between me and my employer when it was discovered I switched it off when I left work, switching it on again when I arrived at work the following day. My line manager asked me not to switch it off in future. I said OK, and from then on when I left work I left it switched on, in my desk drawer. In my case, my employer could require me to accept and carry a company mobile phone while I was at work or on work business. But much to my employers annoyance, I could not be required to take it home. As a freelancer, i had three contract rates ‘Free of Charge’ ‘Market Rate’ ‘Six times market rate and a £500 callout charge’ The last one was for those who expected my phone to be working before 09:00 and after 17:00. It was written into every contract that my working day was 9 to 5 with an hour for lunch and that anyone expecting me to be available after that who wouldn’t pay the ‘open all hours’ contract rate was going to have to leave a message which will receive my attention at 09:00 tbe next day. Nobody ever accepted my open all hours rate, but nobody ever called me outside 9 to 5 |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Jul 20, 2024 20:47:27 GMT
It's a ridiculous idea , there are 101 reasons why an evening email might be sent and that doesn't necessarily mean that said email needs to be dealt with immediately It could be in preparation for the next day (there was discussion some time ago on this forum that an adult worker who said that he is on the autistic spectrum and requires allocated jobs to be confirmed to him in writing on a to do list- if that waits till the following day the employee charged with writing to do lists will be unecssrily occupied handholding andthe worker will be doing SFA while waiting for the updated to do list) many businesses operate in different time zones and attention is needed outside 9-5, a job might require finishing after office hours etc etc On the face of it your comments may be seen as perfectly reasonable, however. In the example you gave in which an employer may want to email an employee, what happens if the employee says he doesn't have an email address? And it's no use saying oh come on everyone has email, the fact is an employer cannot 'require' an employee to have a mobile phone number or an email address which is why key personnel, supervisors/managers usually get company mobile phones/laptops. Well, they CAN write it into tbe contract of employment But then i wouldn’t take that employment. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jul 20, 2024 21:08:39 GMT
I think its a daft idea - for my entire working life every role has needed me to be contactable in an emergency. It is simply part of the job. I can think of instances where this would turn into a disaster. Depends on the management. The expression: "A failure to plan properly on your part does not equal an emergency on mine." Comes to mind. Yeah, but shit happens. OK I was in the private sector so had an incentive in providing a service, but even so you cannot plan for every eventuality, emergencies happen. Also I would have lost out on an awful lot (and I'm talking about tens of thousands) of overtime pay and emergency callout pay if this daft Law had been in place. So Labour on the side of the working class? - don't make me laugh. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jul 20, 2024 21:18:05 GMT
As a freelancer, i had three contract rates ‘Free of Charge’ ‘Market Rate’ ‘Six times market rate and a £500 callout charge’ The last one was for those who expected my phone to be working before 09:00 and after 17:00. It was written into every contract that my working day was 9 to 5 with an hour for lunch and that anyone expecting me to be available after that who wouldn’t pay the ‘open all hours’ contract rate was going to have to leave a message which will receive my attention at 09:00 tbe next day. Nobody ever accepted my open all hours rate, but nobody ever called me outside 9 to 5 I've never done freelance work myself, years ago I nearly did some contract work in Iraq of all places, I was offered two 12 month contacts back to back, with more to follow. The pay was eye watering. Unfortunately at that point in time... things were difficult on the domestic front. Should have stayed in the army but unfortunately I couldn't because unlike the RAF, in the army you have to be fit, so 22 is your lot. My elder daughter and her husband (then boyfriend) did very nicely as freelancers. She in PR, he in journalism. They're still doing their chosen professions but no longer freelancing, they were both offered jobs they couldn't turn down, I'm pleased to say. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jul 20, 2024 21:22:10 GMT
Well, they CAN write it into tbe contract of employment But then i wouldn’t take that employment. There's always a choice... |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jul 20, 2024 21:24:07 GMT
Must admit, I have never had it written into anything - it was just taken as normal.
|
|
|
|
Post by witchfinder on Jul 20, 2024 21:59:57 GMT
I work in catering, and my employer attempts to insist that I must belong to the company WhatsApp group.
This is how the group works : the management and directors send messages, often accompanied with photographs of how things are not done right, or if something was overlooked, perhaps some paperwork, or perhaps a corner of the kitchen where some dirt or debris was found.
The messages are often inflamatory, veiled warnings, this is not good enough.
But here s the best part .... The employees cannot reply to any of the messages
I exited from the group and made it 100% clear that I will NOT be pestered outside of working hours.
When an employee clocks off, they are then in their own time, and any issues involving their employment can be discussed or ironed out in work time.
Opposing the new law by the Tory supporters is to be fully expected, its what Tories do, but its an infringement of a persons private life, and its Dickensian. WELL DONE ANGELLA RAYNOR
|
|
