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Post by Totheleft on Jul 8, 2024 7:30:53 GMT
Very dangerous thinking, Pacifico. The percentage of muslims in London is 15% but when they vote as a bloc - and all of them vote - they can ensure that Sadiq Khan gets elected every 4 years. Also the number of muslims in the UK is roughly doubling every 10 years. If we don't do something about it they'll be controlling our politics within a few decades. You will have conflict on the streets before they control anything - there are natural barriers to them taking over. I thought you wanted a PR democracy. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 8, 2024 7:34:59 GMT
I find it astonishing that the Right of British politics has generally always been opposed to proportional representation, but then suddenly they propose a move in favour of PR... Sounds sensible given that: "The relationship between the number of seats won by the parties and their vote shares was one of the most disproportionate ever."www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/05/labour-wins-big-uk-electoral-system-creakingYou know there's an issue when even the Graun raises it as a concern. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 8, 2024 7:40:22 GMT
Farage is pushing for what he calls a Fairer voting System If you think about it at the moment you have 20 independent MP in HOC. And i think a few have Muslim intrest like Galloway. Just think how Many would be reparcented Under a PR system . I know some of you would say thats total Democracy . But are you willing to lose Democracy at any price even if it Eventually ment a Muslim Controlled HOC Well, I did see an interesting remainer acquaintance post something like this of FB. 'The UK had a referendum on PR in 2011, it was the will of the people'. 'If Farage believes democracy is not static and issues can be revisited on the notion of PR; then the same can be done for a Brexit referendum'. Personally, I'm caught between the devil and deep blue sea. On the one hand I'm fed-up with centralist governments and their WEF economic orthodoxy of high tax, low growth and crazy net-zero policies; but then I'm cautious of fringe fundamentalists from ethnic minorities becoming greater in number and banding together to turn Britain into a current day South Africa, I know Farage & co. fall on this side of the equation too. But in the long term I don't know if rolling the dice on that and letting a genie out the bottle is worth it. It's not a great choice to make either way IMO. |
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Post by sheepy on Jul 8, 2024 7:41:25 GMT
Muslims make up about 7% of the population - it will be a while before they control anything. If the Muslims want sectarian politics then fine, but that doesn't mean that everyone else has to take any notice of them. Very dangerous thinking, Pacifico. The percentage of muslims in London is 15% but when they vote as a bloc - and all of them vote - they can ensure that Sadiq Khan gets elected every 4 years. Also the number of muslims in the UK is roughly doubling every 10 years. If we don't do something about it they'll be controlling our politics within a few decades. You think you can change that by picking out one group constantly, you won't, when even your opposite pole think immigration is far too high, all that will happen is you will create polar opposites and like we have just seen nothing will be done. Except keep increasing it.Anyone who has seen how the real populists go about politics, is that we refuse to be polarised. |
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Post by witchfinder on Jul 8, 2024 7:43:43 GMT
Under a simple PR system, the 2024 General Election would have resulted in a House Of Commons consisting of
LABOUR 221 seats
CONSERVATIVE 156
REFORM 91
LIB DEM 78
SNP 16
GREEN 39
OTHERS 49
No party with overall majority - even a LAB / LIB DEM coalition would not make a majority, and probably the outcome of last weeks election under a simple PR vote would be a Rainbow Centre Left coalition of Labour, Lib Dems and Green.
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 8, 2024 7:49:51 GMT
Farage is pushing for what he calls a Fairer voting System If you think about it at the moment you have 20 independent MP in HOC. And i think a few have Muslim intrest like Galloway. Just think how Many would be reparcented Under a PR system . I know some of you would say thats total Democracy . But are you willing to lose Democracy at any price even if it Eventually ment a Muslim Controlled HOCMuslims make up about 7% of the population - it will be a while before they control anything.
If the Muslims want sectarian politics then fine, but that doesn't mean that everyone else has to take any notice of them.What a Muslim says to get a vote and what they do thereafter could be two different things. I wouldn't roll that particular dice in haste personally. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 8, 2024 8:01:49 GMT
I don't see how PR makes a difference ref the Muslim vote.
With a growing population we will eventually see more Muslim MPs in the mainstream parties/under FPTP.
The voting system can't change demographics.
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Post by Totheleft on Jul 8, 2024 8:11:43 GMT
I don't see how PR makes a difference ref the Muslim vote. With a growing population we will eventually see more Muslim MPs in the mainstream parties/under FPTP. The voting system can't change demographics. It would if you got Mps like Galloway in. |
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Post by jeg er on Jul 8, 2024 8:12:46 GMT
which bit of the article you just sent tells us that a muslim vote would wreck democracy under PR? Where did you get 20% share of vote for the 6 independent candidates from? Remember, only 4 of them were standing as pro Gaza muslim candidates so how can just 4 candidates, or 5 if you include Jeremy Corbyn, from just 4 or 5 seats in the UK, equal 20% of UK wide vote share? Bear in mind that the vote share for Reform, who stood in most of the UK, was only 14%. LOG IN Home Latest news France elections UK general election EU election results War in Ukraine Newsletters Podcasts Poll of Polls Policy news Events NEWS POLITICS How Britain voted: Charts and maps We analyze the results which radically changed the UK’s electoral map. SHARE TOPSHOT-BRITAIN-POLITICS-VOTE-RESULT Keir Starmer's party has 411 seats, excluding the speaker's. | Oli Scarff/AFP via Getty Images BY THE NUMBERS JULY 6, 2024 4:26 PM CET BY LUCIA MACKENZIE AND HANNE COKELAERE The U.K. Labour party is celebrating a landslide victory. Keir Starmer’s party has 411 seats, excluding the speaker’s, and a large majority in the House of Commons. His tally includes a number of “red wall” constituencies the party lost to the Conservatives in the previous election in 2019, and seats the Scottish National Party had dominated for nearly a decade. But a closer look at the numbers suggests Labour strategists should not rest on their laurels. U Those same vote shares paint a far weaker picture for Labour than its seat number would suggest. The party recorded a 200-seat jump — but its vote share advanced by only an inch. UK legislative election results 2019 2024 412 seats LAB 121 seats CON 72 seats LD SNP SF IND DUP RE GREEN PC SDLP APNI OTHER UUP Labour Party Conservative Party Liberal Democrats Scottish National Party Sinn Féin Independent Democratic Unionist Party Reform UK Green Party Plaid Cymru Social Democratic and Labour Party Alliance Party of Northern Ireland Other parties Ulster Unionist Party If you notice by vote share independent are 6th and reform are 8th There is literally no information in your quote stating vote share figures |
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Post by Totheleft on Jul 8, 2024 8:19:58 GMT
LOG IN Home Latest news France elections UK general election EU election results War in Ukraine Newsletters Podcasts Poll of Polls Policy news Events NEWS POLITICS How Britain voted: Charts and maps We analyze the results which radically changed the UK’s electoral map. SHARE TOPSHOT-BRITAIN-POLITICS-VOTE-RESULT Keir Starmer's party has 411 seats, excluding the speaker's. | Oli Scarff/AFP via Getty Images BY THE NUMBERS JULY 6, 2024 4:26 PM CET BY LUCIA MACKENZIE AND HANNE COKELAERE The U.K. Labour party is celebrating a landslide victory. Keir Starmer’s party has 411 seats, excluding the speaker’s, and a large majority in the House of Commons. His tally includes a number of “red wall” constituencies the party lost to the Conservatives in the previous election in 2019, and seats the Scottish National Party had dominated for nearly a decade. But a closer look at the numbers suggests Labour strategists should not rest on their laurels. U Those same vote shares paint a far weaker picture for Labour than its seat number would suggest. The party recorded a 200-seat jump — but its vote share advanced by only an inch. UK legislative election results 2019 2024 412 seats LAB 121 seats CON 72 seats LD SNP SF IND DUP RE GREEN PC SDLP APNI OTHER UUP Labour Party Conservative Party Liberal Democrats Scottish National Party Sinn Féin Independent Democratic Unionist Party Reform UK Green Party Plaid Cymru Social Democratic and Labour Party Alliance Party of Northern Ireland Other parties Ulster Unionist Party If you notice by vote share independent are 6th and reform are 8th There is literally no information in your quote stating vote share figures Those same vote shares The table based on vote shares independent on 6th reform on 8th |
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Post by sheepy on Jul 8, 2024 8:22:18 GMT
I don't see how PR makes a difference ref the Muslim vote. With a growing population we will eventually see more Muslim MPs in the mainstream parties/under FPTP. The voting system can't change demographics. It would if you got Mps like Galloway in. Exactly what difference did Galloway make? apart from much rhetoric. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 8, 2024 8:22:59 GMT
I don't see how PR makes a difference ref the Muslim vote. With a growing population we will eventually see more Muslim MPs in the mainstream parties/under FPTP. The voting system can't change demographics. It would if you got Mps like Galloway in. Show your workings. |
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Post by Totheleft on Jul 8, 2024 8:25:25 GMT
It would if you got Mps like Galloway in. Exactly what difference did Galloway make? apart from much rhetoric. Has a lone voice none but he did come a close 2nd in the GE. |
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Post by Totheleft on Jul 8, 2024 8:26:34 GMT
It would if you got Mps like Galloway in. Show your workings. Its further up. |
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Post by sheepy on Jul 8, 2024 8:30:01 GMT
Exactly what difference did Galloway make? apart from much rhetoric. Has a lone voice none but he did come a close 2nd in the GE. None then so a bit of a red herring if you are against PR then you had better come up with something logical. |
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