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Post by Dubdrifter on Jul 6, 2024 8:49:32 GMT
I’m interested in a little feedback on this Election Reform proposal idea I dropped in another post … but got no response from the Membership. Maybe I’ll get a better response here from Mind Zone thinking people. 🤔 This I rapidly drafted in response to a long term complaint from the Electorate … that their VOTE often made no difference … because of the First Past The Post (FPTP) system didn’t deliver Proportional Representation. Hopefully these proposals … if adopted … will make the Electorate know EVERY VOTE COUNTS NOW … and the cream of British talent … will once again return to doing respected jobs that redefine a positive future for this Country. Can I just throw an idea in the ring towards making Elections fair in future?? 1) Make local Councils apolitical … and the vote for them at another time of the year … ie. Let candidates present themselves unaligned to any faction, religion or Party … but just presenting their skills and experience to do the job of local government … in a number of different disciplines … Planning, Services, Traffic, Administration, Legal etc. - candidates can do a series of personal presentations to canvas votes - to those interested in attending at meeting halls in the region … One short circular brochure(printed and funded by the tax-payer) with all pictured candidates strengths and experience briefly described - is dropped at each house … for voters to make an informed decision … free of political bias. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ For the General Election … our Parliament … Westminster … could be changed into an ‘Expert Debating Chamber’ … where outside experts could often be brought in to advise Elected Experts … before a House voting decision is made. 2)Parties keen to put together a team of experts to run the Country in different disciplines … Home Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Industry, Transport, Resources, Arts, Environment … are each given a fixed Campaign budget by the tax-payers … and can use no other funding … to present their case for the direction they want to steer the Country … goals, strategies and expertise to do the job. The top 10 have an hours slot on TV to do a presentation of policies and expertise. The General Election is held within 2 weeks of these final presentations …10 teams/Parties (max) make the final cut to stand for Election … and appear on the ballot paper of EVERY region. No funding is needed to stand … your team just needs to be sufficiently qualified to make the top 10 … and get on the ballot. So if the Monster Raving Looney Party has a very competent Administrative Team in it’s set-up … and does an excellent presentation … it doesn’t need huge amounts of money to be in the VOTE … and could potentially form a Government. Personally … I feel this is a fairer System than we have now … it’s not First Past the Post … or Proportional Representation …. so EVERY VOTE WILL COUNT.
It will also iron out some corruption and wealthy factions buying more votes and members … because MP’s will be fixed rate tax-payer salaried … No outside funding permitted.
It will also focus more attention on skills and competence to Govern … and bring experts back into Government at the top levels …
It will reduce the ‘dead wood’ and ‘donkeys’ braying in the House of Commons … and it will remove the Whip System that does so much damage.Any thoughts … any weakness I’ve missed in this System?? Please analyse carefully …( be aware it’s a rough draft) …. and leave a comment … or suggestions for improvement on this basic initial template. Thanks! |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 6, 2024 8:57:32 GMT
We should have a referendum on PR.
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Post by zanygame on Jul 6, 2024 9:07:16 GMT
I’m interested in a little feedback on this Election Reform proposal idea I dropped in another post … but got no response from the Membership. Maybe I’ll get a better response here from Mind Zone thinking people. 🤔 This I rapidly drafted in response to a long term complaint from the Electorate … that their VOTE often made no difference … because of the First Past The Post (FPTP) system didn’t deliver Proportional Representation. Hopefully these proposals … if adopted … will make the Electorate know EVERY VOTE COUNTS NOW … and the cream of British talent … will once again return to doing respected jobs that redefine a positive future for this Country. Can I just throw an idea in the ring towards making Elections fair in future?? 1) Make local Councils apolitical … and the vote for them at another time of the year … ie. Let candidates present themselves unaligned to any faction, religion or Party … but just presenting their skills and experience to do the job of local government … in a number of different disciplines … Planning, Services, Traffic, Administration, Legal etc. - candidates can do a series of personal presentations to canvas votes - to those interested in attending at meeting halls in the region … One short circular brochure(printed and funded by the tax-payer) with all pictured candidates strengths and experience briefly described - is dropped at each house … for voters to make an informed decision … free of political bias. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ For the General Election … our Parliament … Westminster … could be changed into an ‘Expert Debating Chamber’ … where outside experts could often be brought in to advise Elected Experts … before a House voting decision is made. 2)Parties keen to put together a team of experts to run the Country in different disciplines … Home Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Industry, Transport, Resources, Arts, Environment … are each given a fixed Campaign budget by the tax-payers … and can use no other funding … to present their case for the direction they want to steer the Country … goals, strategies and expertise to do the job. The top 10 have an hours slot on TV to do a presentation of policies and expertise. The General Election is held within 2 weeks of these final presentations …10 teams/Parties (max) make the final cut to stand for Election … and appear on the ballot paper of EVERY region. No funding is needed to stand … your team just needs to be sufficiently qualified to make the top 10 … and get on the ballot. So if the Monster Raving Looney Party has a very competent Administrative Team in it’s set-up … and does an excellent presentation … it doesn’t need huge amounts of money to be in the VOTE … and could potentially form a Government. Personally … I feel this is a fairer System than we have now … it’s not First Past the Post … or Proportional Representation …. so EVERY VOTE WILL COUNT.
It will also iron out some corruption and wealthy factions buying more votes and members … because MP’s will be fixed rate tax-payer salaried … No outside funding permitted.
It will also focus more attention on skills and competence to Govern … and bring experts back into Government at the top levels …
It will reduce the ‘dead wood’ and ‘donkeys’ braying in the House of Commons … and it will remove the Whip System that does so much damage.Any thoughts … any weakness I’ve missed in this System?? Please analyse carefully …( be aware it’s a rough draft) …. and leave a comment … or suggestions for improvement on this basic initial template. Thanks! This seems pretty well thought out at first glance. I think there are problems with straight PR. Reform for instance, got a small number of voters in each constituency which means the people of each constituency don't want them in power, but overall they got a lot of votes, so should some constituencies lose out on having the MP they want to create a space for a Reform MP or should we have even more MP's (NB; I'm not suggesting you are talking of PR, I'm pointing out the faults with that system) I'm busy today, so adding this post so your thread shows up in my participated list. Will analyse properly later. Thank you. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 6, 2024 9:11:46 GMT
There are five independent MPs who wouldn't have stood a chance under PR. But by the looks of it they're anti Semites anyway.
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 6, 2024 10:57:03 GMT
Mod Notice
I have deleted a couple of replies on this thread - please bear in mind it is in 'Mind Zone' so extra rules apply.
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Post by borchester on Jul 6, 2024 11:17:10 GMT
We should have a referendum on PR. We should have a vote on a referendum on PR.
As far as I can see, PR means that the parties get MPs in proportion to the number of votes cast. Which means that I end up being represented by someone that I have never heard of and who has no dog in the game.
Bollocks to that.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 6, 2024 11:19:59 GMT
We should have a referendum on PR. We should have a vote on a referendum on PR.
As far as I can see, PR means that the parties get MPs in proportion to the number of votes cast. Which means that I end up being represented by someone that I have never heard of and who has no dog in the game.
Bollocks to that.
It works exactly the same way the EU elections used to. There's still ballot papers with named candidates. |
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Post by borchester on Jul 6, 2024 16:28:39 GMT
We should have a vote on a referendum on PR.
As far as I can see, PR means that the parties get MPs in proportion to the number of votes cast. Which means that I end up being represented by someone that I have never heard of and who has no dog in the game.
Bollocks to that.
It works exactly the same way the EU elections used to. There's still ballot papers with named candidates. The EU ?
Remainer filth voting to betray the UK ?
I think that I will pass up on that one
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Post by Vinny on Jul 6, 2024 18:30:09 GMT
It works exactly the same way the EU elections used to. There's still ballot papers with named candidates. The EU ?
Remainer filth voting to betray the UK ?
I think that I will pass up on that one
D'Hondt system. Used from 1999 to 2014. 2019 doesn't count as we weren't supposed to still be in. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 6, 2024 21:41:53 GMT
We should have a referendum on PR. We should have a vote on a referendum on PR.
As far as I can see, PR means that the parties get MPs in proportion to the number of votes cast. Which means that I end up being represented by someone that I have never heard of and who has no dog in the game.
Bollocks to that.
Under PR you vote for a Party - then that party decides who represents you. Yes you do not get to vote for individuals - but at least your vote counts |
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Post by zanygame on Jul 7, 2024 7:23:42 GMT
I’m interested in a little feedback on this Election Reform proposal idea I dropped in another post … but got no response from the Membership. Maybe I’ll get a better response here from Mind Zone thinking people. 🤔 This I rapidly drafted in response to a long term complaint from the Electorate … that their VOTE often made no difference … because of the First Past The Post (FPTP) system didn’t deliver Proportional Representation. Hopefully these proposals … if adopted … will make the Electorate know EVERY VOTE COUNTS NOW … and the cream of British talent … will once again return to doing respected jobs that redefine a positive future for this Country. Can I just throw an idea in the ring towards making Elections fair in future?? 1) Make local Councils apolitical … and the vote for them at another time of the year … ie. Let candidates present themselves unaligned to any faction, religion or Party … but just presenting their skills and experience to do the job of local government … in a number of different disciplines … Planning, Services, Traffic, Administration, Legal etc. - candidates can do a series of personal presentations to canvas votes - to those interested in attending at meeting halls in the region … One short circular brochure(printed and funded by the tax-payer) with all pictured candidates strengths and experience briefly described - is dropped at each house … for voters to make an informed decision … free of political bias. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ For the General Election … our Parliament … Westminster … could be changed into an ‘Expert Debating Chamber’ … where outside experts could often be brought in to advise Elected Experts … before a House voting decision is made. 2)Parties keen to put together a team of experts to run the Country in different disciplines … Home Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Industry, Transport, Resources, Arts, Environment … are each given a fixed Campaign budget by the tax-payers … and can use no other funding … to present their case for the direction they want to steer the Country … goals, strategies and expertise to do the job. The top 10 have an hours slot on TV to do a presentation of policies and expertise. The General Election is held within 2 weeks of these final presentations …10 teams/Parties (max) make the final cut to stand for Election … and appear on the ballot paper of EVERY region. No funding is needed to stand … your team just needs to be sufficiently qualified to make the top 10 … and get on the ballot. So if the Monster Raving Looney Party has a very competent Administrative Team in it’s set-up … and does an excellent presentation … it doesn’t need huge amounts of money to be in the VOTE … and could potentially form a Government. Personally … I feel this is a fairer System than we have now … it’s not First Past the Post … or Proportional Representation …. so EVERY VOTE WILL COUNT.
It will also iron out some corruption and wealthy factions buying more votes and members … because MP’s will be fixed rate tax-payer salaried … No outside funding permitted.
It will also focus more attention on skills and competence to Govern … and bring experts back into Government at the top levels …
It will reduce the ‘dead wood’ and ‘donkeys’ braying in the House of Commons … and it will remove the Whip System that does so much damage.Any thoughts … any weakness I’ve missed in this System?? Please analyse carefully …( be aware it’s a rough draft) …. and leave a comment … or suggestions for improvement on this basic initial template. Thanks! 1, Councils. Yes 100% 2, Experts. Something similar. Each party consult the team of recognised experts (This stops parties seeking out those to support their view) The experts present the case to parliament along with recommended changes (A bit like the EU commission.) 2a, Budget. I think this is an excellent idea that all parties get a fixed budget. For me, the elected government present a policy change to each qualifying opposition party for discussion. 2b, I would use this for all major changes, not just at election time. 3, Disagree on the 2 week campaign, many voters with busy lives need a bit longer to consider the proposals being made. I'd increase to one month. 4, Funding. This doesn't work for me, who decides which party has the best experts and gets to present, and how do new parties get noticed? |
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Post by sheepy on Jul 7, 2024 7:53:12 GMT
I’m interested in a little feedback on this Election Reform proposal idea I dropped in another post … but got no response from the Membership. Maybe I’ll get a better response here from Mind Zone thinking people. 🤔 This I rapidly drafted in response to a long term complaint from the Electorate … that their VOTE often made no difference … because of the First Past The Post (FPTP) system didn’t deliver Proportional Representation. Hopefully these proposals … if adopted … will make the Electorate know EVERY VOTE COUNTS NOW … and the cream of British talent … will once again return to doing respected jobs that redefine a positive future for this Country. Please analyse carefully …( be aware it’s a rough draft) …. and leave a comment … or suggestions for improvement on this basic initial template. Thanks! This seems pretty well thought out at first glance. I think there are problems with straight PR. Reform for instance, got a small number of voters in each constituency which means the people of each constituency don't want them in power, but overall they got a lot of votes, so should some constituencies lose out on having the MP they want to create a space for a Reform MP or should we have even more MP's (NB; I'm not suggesting you are talking of PR, I'm pointing out the faults with that system) I'm busy today, so adding this post so your thread shows up in my participated list. Will analyse properly later. Thank you. I can tell you why you are up against it before you start if you like, the people who hold the real power won't like the thought of some upstart causing problems for them in parliament, while you have the current system it doesn't matter who governs as we have just seen, they pull all the strings, if you start putting in place systems that can change that, it will go down very badly, as when they cannot control democracy it turns very sour, as it has been since 2016. |
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Post by zanygame on Jul 7, 2024 8:31:39 GMT
This seems pretty well thought out at first glance. I think there are problems with straight PR. Reform for instance, got a small number of voters in each constituency which means the people of each constituency don't want them in power, but overall they got a lot of votes, so should some constituencies lose out on having the MP they want to create a space for a Reform MP or should we have even more MP's (NB; I'm not suggesting you are talking of PR, I'm pointing out the faults with that system) I'm busy today, so adding this post so your thread shows up in my participated list. Will analyse properly later. Thank you. I can tell you why you are up against it before you start if you like, the people who hold the real power won't like the thought of some upstart causing problems for them in parliament, while you have the current system it doesn't matter who governs as we have just seen, they pull all the strings, if you start putting in place systems that can change that, it will go down very badly, as when they cannot control democracy it turns very sour, as it has been since 2016. Yes a problem with the system is that it wishes to save itself. Strangely in the long term PR would reduce parties like Reform. For as the reigning party saw vote share shifting on policies, they would move to stop that. The downside is that minor parties who promise much because they know they wont have to deliver it can gain a popularist vote in parliament. That's part of the reason I like FOI's solution. |
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Post by sheepy on Jul 7, 2024 8:35:24 GMT
I can tell you why you are up against it before you start if you like, the people who hold the real power won't like the thought of some upstart causing problems for them in parliament, while you have the current system it doesn't matter who governs as we have just seen, they pull all the strings, if you start putting in place systems that can change that, it will go down very badly, as when they cannot control democracy it turns very sour, as it has been since 2016. Yes a problem with the system is that it wishes to save itself. Strangely in the long term PR would reduce parties like Reform. For as the reigning party saw vote share shifting on policies, they would move to stop that. The downside is that minor parties who promise much because they know they wont have to deliver it can gain a popularist vote in parliament. That's part of the reason I like FOI's solution. They might even find every excuse in the book to keep things as they are and put up their quangos as the gauge of all things. |
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Post by zanygame on Jul 7, 2024 8:58:49 GMT
Yes a problem with the system is that it wishes to save itself. Strangely in the long term PR would reduce parties like Reform. For as the reigning party saw vote share shifting on policies, they would move to stop that. The downside is that minor parties who promise much because they know they wont have to deliver it can gain a popularist vote in parliament. That's part of the reason I like FOI's solution. They might even find every excuse in the book to keep things as they are and put up their quangos as the gauge of all things. Quango's are a dirty word to most business. They sell themselves as experts then spend their time asking you for prompts. I suspect they behave the same advising government and the public sector. |
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Can I just throw an idea in the ring towards making Elections fair in future??
