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Post by sandypine on Jul 5, 2024 8:46:53 GMT
But in total Reform polled more votes than the FibDims. In reality they are the third party. Their paucity of seats is more a damning indictment of our rigged voting system. Bring on PR. Not so sure, at least with our system people can get things done... But can they? The Tories spent most of the last 5 years arguing amongst themselves. If Sunak had wanted to get anything done, he'd have needed to look for support outside of his own party anyway. ...with PR most of the policies are compromises and watered down so in effect not much can happen... Which is no different to the last 14 years. ...Perhaps we live with FPTP because we know how moribund PR makes governments. And again, FPTP is no guarantee against that. QED. So really what you are saying is we already have a form of PR as it exists within the parties we currently elect if they are all sort of broad churches. Perhaps they are already illustrating what PR will be like only PR may be worse as there will be more broad churches. The Labour party have a very effective working majority and they can use it. Boris had a working majority but it was Boris that threw his chance away as he just wanted to be a PM without actually being a Prime Minister. |
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Post by Dogburger on Jul 5, 2024 8:47:22 GMT
So what happened to the great, national hero led, Reform UK surge? 4 Seats - like I predicted (I predicted 2-6). In only 4 seats were the electorate dumb enough to vote for a snakeoil salesman. Pleasantly surprised by that. All The Best They done OK with regard the national vote . As was forecast Reform needed to get to 20% to convert votes to seats 15% was a bit lower than expected which returned 1% of the vote (as opposed to labour 35/68 cons ,23/17 ,lib dems 11/9 The tipping point is within reach |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 5, 2024 8:48:02 GMT
That may or may not be true but we have Europhiles in charge now and we know Starmer was an arch Remainer and will 'build' better relations with the EU which means that the UK may become a sort of Associate member of the EU with much alignment and effectively little non-alignment. Starmer has pretty firmly said no to a customs union, single market, or even freedom of movement. No way in hell is he going to make the UK an associate member - sadly. Starmer didn't visage the possibility of working with a Right Wing France, if Macron is toast at the weekend you can kiss goodbye to far-left wing socialist France.
And if Trump becomes President he has to deal with Right wing again, hopefully that will dampen any ideas he had of hooking us back up with his lefty socialist France, a bonus he might have if the Right get in they might actually stop the illegal people traffickers.
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 5, 2024 8:48:37 GMT
Except now it is a privilege granted by France not a right as an EU citizen. Loads of red tape where there used to be none. No you're wrong. Like all remainiacs you claim it's oh so difficult to travel in/move to the EU, it's not. It's easy, as long as you know what you're doing and you have a passport. No biggie. Whats wrong with you? Christ will you lot ever stop trying to blame everything on Brexit? Red, these people are pathetic they can't move on. I make no apologies for their bitterness. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 5, 2024 8:49:40 GMT
Get your appropriate adult to explain it to you. Will of the people. Labour means Labour! Does it though, will the British working man see his life lifted in teh next four years or will International and European considerations see him once again relegated to also rans in the considerations of the government? |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 5, 2024 9:00:44 GMT
Will of the people. Labour means Labour! 4 out of 5 people said: "No".
Labour means nothing.
Were you on here bemoaning FPTP the day after the 2019 GE? |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 5, 2024 9:06:49 GMT
But can they? The Tories spent most of the last 5 years arguing amongst themselves. If Sunak had wanted to get anything done, he'd have needed to look for support outside of his own party anyway. Which is no different to the last 14 years. And again, FPTP is no guarantee against that. QED. So really what you are saying is we already have a form of PR as it exists within the parties we currently elect if they are all sort of broad churches. Perhaps they are already illustrating what PR will be like only PR may be worse as there will be more broad churches. The Labour party have a very effective working majority and they can use it. Boris had a working majority but it was Boris that threw his chance away as he just wanted to be a PM without actually being a Prime Minister. Not really. Labour have just secured a huge majority with just 34% of the vote. Or, in other words, two-thirds of those who voted didn't vote Labour. So two-thirds of the electorate are disenfranchised from the outset. If we take into account those eligible to vote who didn't bother (and I think it's fair to assume that at least some of those didn't turn out because they knew that they were disenfranchised from the outset) then that figure rises to 80% of the electorate that didn't vote for the winning party. I'm sorry but I no longer see a system which disenfranchises between two-thirds and more than three-quarters of the electorate as being in any way representative. Because it just isn't. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 5, 2024 9:07:10 GMT
4 out of 5 people said: "No".
Labour means nothing.
Were you on here bemoaning FPTP the day after the 2019 GE? Yes. |
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Post by Dogburger on Jul 5, 2024 9:09:25 GMT
Well congratulations to all the lefty's , at least we now have a stationary target as opposed to the left sliding tories . Makes no difference to me which of the social democrat parties are in No 10 . On the plus side we have 4 right wingers in the house of commons whereas yesterday we had none ,the biggest percentage rise of any party by a country mile  Bit of straw clutching there but Im taking it |
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Post by bancroft on Jul 5, 2024 9:13:24 GMT
So Labour like the polls said win comfortably, the only thing I got right was Reform I said 3-4.
Another big take away is the demise of the SNP and the return of Scottish Labour.
I haven't heard all the news as went to bed at 3am yet saw IDS survives due to the fall-out between Labour and the Independent.
So Reform pushing towards 5m yet only get 4 seats though more than the last time UKIP got 5m.
Markets have initially reacted well both pound and footsie up though doubt that will last.
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 5, 2024 9:17:55 GMT
So Labour like the polls said win comfortably, the only thing I got right was Reform I said 3-4. Another big take away is the demise of the SNP and the return of Scottish Labour. I haven't heard all the news as went to bed at 3am yet saw IDS survives due to the fall-out between Labour and the Independent. So Reform pushing towards 5m yet only get 4 seats though more than the last time UKIP got 5m. Markets have initially reacted well both pound and footsie up though doubt that will last. Another interesting sub plot is the Lib Dems roaring back with 71 seats. How many of them were taken in the Tory blue wall? Something to consider for those advocating that the Tories need to move further right. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 5, 2024 9:23:29 GMT
So Labour like the polls said win comfortably, the only thing I got right was Reform I said 3-4. Another big take away is the demise of the SNP and the return of Scottish Labour. I haven't heard all the news as went to bed at 3am yet saw IDS survives due to the fall-out between Labour and the Independent. So Reform pushing towards 5m yet only get 4 seats though more than the last time UKIP got 5m. Markets have initially reacted well both pound and footsie up though doubt that will last. Another interesting sub plot is the Lib Dems roaring back with 71 seats. How many of them were taken in the Tory blue wall? Something to consider for those advocating that the Tories need to move further right. I suspect that most people have no idea what the FibDims actually stand for.
Hence they're seen as the defacto protest vote.
And, as for "roaring back" well, they polled less votes than last time.
All of the "Big Three" did.
So people are not switching to the FibDims, they're switching off.
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Post by Dubdrifter on Jul 5, 2024 9:27:56 GMT
The problem with voting left is that those that do never learn. Essentially it means a far left Britain will be like Lemmings jumping over the cliff. Its the end. Starmer is not far left. Jeez. The LEFT is well-known for launching large numbers of bullying rioting anarchists on our streets … and the streets of America and France …. burning and looting … when they don’t get their way …. and a high turn-out VOTE goes against them. You shouldn’t be aligned with these thugs that behave like the Brownshirts of the 1930’s. Reform four seats. Four too many. You should be extremely grateful to Reform … for decimating the Tory vote far more effectively than Starmer ever did. Starmer didn’t win this Election … the Tories lost it by sheer incompetence … by being total poodles to those pushing eastern expansionism and genocide. …. They let slip a huge BoJo 74% landslide … by: - failure to deliver all elements of Brexit we voted for - v.selective immigration, secure borders, better law+order crackdown on religious radicals … and fast track deportations on criminal/terrorist immigrants …. and less paperwork/border regulation for legal tax paying businessmen wanting FREE MARKET/no hassle trade. They failed miserably because of Bremainer anarchists still entrenched in Whitehall, … and because of over representation of muslims/zionists +religious manipulators in our Cabinet … not to mention anarchist agitators in the BBC and MSM. Tories implemented disastrous lockdown during an obvious Plandemic, instigated disastrous Sanctions further crippling small businesses and the general economy, … and betrayed British interests supporting the aggressive eastern expansionist policies of nutter extremists in NATO, the EU and Zionist totalitarian genocidalists. … that is why Reform killed off the Tories … talking about all that stuff online. Because the truth is …. Labour were totally sh*t in Opposition … and brayed like donkeys in Parliament these last 4 years … rubber-stamping disastrous Tory policy … however (Green Agenda) daft and war-mongering. How Green was it to reject Putin Peace Talks in Feb ‘22.? … Unless the Labour Party drops WOKE stupidity … and kicks out the dead wood that only generated a 38% voter turn out … apathy or what?? … and makes a miracle U-turn in policy … they will be a similar ‘disaster’ in Government … as they were in Opposition. CIVIL UNREST is likely to unseat them early… especially if they don’t respect the Brexit vote … and exert firm border controls … and drop their stupid Green strategies and daft diversity/WOKE/Gender bending crap immediately … Remember newbies Reform carved out a huge result by getting 42% of Labour’s total vote … coming from nowhere in a matter of weeks. A staggering voter affirmation tbh … showing their policies/views have HUGE appeal. It only yielded Reform a paltry 4 seats … after much MSM smearing … very disappointing … but it is a stepping stone to major things if those 4 Reform MP’s … especially Farage perform as a decent Opposition in Parliament over the next 4 years … and a few Tories defect … and the extremist smears drop away … their momentum could build towards an effective governing Party. Labour+the Tories need to desperately LEARN what works for UK People … because they both haven’t a clue … or any ideas. … and certainly didn’t listen to the online commentary … the Voice of The People. Reform has a huge listening ear … it’s strength is responding to what analysts and researchers online are saying. This is why Globalists are taking a hammering right now … they are rich enough not to give a fig what we are saying … until the enslaved and oppressed suddenly appear within their compounds seeking retribution. ….They are circling the wagons right now and desperately want to send your kids into the killing fields of Ukraine, Taiwan and the Middle East … again. Labour needs to be awake …selfishly protect OUR interests … and watch “Ukraine on Fire” on Youtube…. and bring our troops home now … reconfigure our defence strategy OUTSIDE NATO. 🤔👍 … keep these nutters and foreign defunders at arms length … |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 5, 2024 9:31:39 GMT
Reform four seats. Four too many. Far too few. They got four million votes. You might not like them, you may have in your head invented a demonisation of them as "Nazis" but the voters do not agree with you. And there is no evidence for your paranoia. |
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Post by sheepy on Jul 5, 2024 9:32:44 GMT
So really what you are saying is we already have a form of PR as it exists within the parties we currently elect if they are all sort of broad churches. Perhaps they are already illustrating what PR will be like only PR may be worse as there will be more broad churches. The Labour party have a very effective working majority and they can use it. Boris had a working majority but it was Boris that threw his chance away as he just wanted to be a PM without actually being a Prime Minister. Not really. Labour have just secured a huge majority with just 34% of the vote. Or, in other words, two-thirds of those who voted didn't vote Labour. So two-thirds of the electorate are disenfranchised from the outset. If we take into account those eligible to vote who didn't bother (and I think it's fair to assume that at least some of those didn't turn out because they knew that they were disenfranchised from the outset) then that figure rises to 80% of the electorate that didn't vote for the winning party. I'm sorry but I no longer see a system which disenfranchises between two-thirds and more than three-quarters of the electorate as being in any way representative. Because it just isn't. LOL so I was actually the only one who was correct, nobody actually thinks it is any kind of landslide only those backward idiots and their followers of fashion, its all-pretend politics. One thing for sure they cannot say they represent anywhere near the majority of the public, which luckily for the followers of fashion we made sure of. |
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