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Post by Vinny on Oct 13, 2022 15:54:59 GMT
Regulations are secondary legislation, once agreed by the EU, they come into effect in all member states. See GDPR as an example.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2022 17:25:05 GMT
Regulations are secondary legislation, once agreed by the EU, they come into effect in all member states. See GDPR as an example.
Edit:
I looked into this a bit more and it's waaay more complicated than that, looks like they may only have adopted some of it, but their regulations are different to other states'. In any case, even in the GDPR itself in all member states, many opt-outs exist.
And more to the point, I proved with the Daily Express (the most pro-Brexit paper) that we could have opted out the fisheries policy.......
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Post by Vinny on Oct 13, 2022 18:49:29 GMT
Opting out of the common external tariff, the free movement of people, and TFEU101, can you do that?
If you can't, you won't want to be members.
TFEU101 forbids monopolies including state owned and mandates competition, therefore in the single market for energy, competition is mandatory, the state cannot monopolise, rail, the state cannot monopolise, any public service, the state cannot monopolise.
If you are left wing you might not want Sturgeon's starry eyed dreams.
Simple truth is, Scotland breaking away would have all the same negatives as Brexit but without any benefits.
It is not going to happen.
We might as well accept this, and as the referendum to create devolution was advisory, we may as well scrap devolution as well. After all, by Sturgeon's own logic, an advisory referendum shouldn't be honoured.
She tried to stop the UK leaving the EU after voting for the ultimate opt out.
She should instead have rolled with it and campaigned to get the most out of leaving.
A debate on HOW we left rather than IF.
She poisoned her own well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2022 20:18:13 GMT
Opting out of the common external tariff, the free movement of people, and TFEU101, can you do that? I've given you plenty of proof. I've proven that they can opt out of many things (which you said they couldn't) already.
You keep asking me whether member states can opt out of things, but you never prove that they can't [granted it's hard to prove a negative but repeatedly asking me what they can opt out of is IMHO debating in bad faith].
Hungary has done whatever it has liked - and has not been stopped from doing so - you haven't even attempted to dispute this.
Then why do we have de facto monopolies in our own country - monopolies that existed long before Brexit?
You instantly refute your own argument with that point.
The SNP are largely centrist but have some leftists in their party too.
You haven't proven or qualified either statement. How do you know it's "not going to happen"?
Ah, so you want to scrap devolution as well - despite in other posts seeming to suggest devolving power to parts of the yookay was a good thing? You seem to be contradicting yourself.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 13, 2022 20:27:47 GMT
Then why do we have de facto monopolies in our own country - monopolies that existed long before Brexit? Such as ? The NHS is not a monopoly, there is a market with BUPA, AXA etc. The Royal Mail is not a monopoly, there is FedEx, DHL, and lots of other couriers. What monopolies are we talking about here ? Devolution was botched, England doesn't have devolution. Scottish devolution just wastes money on politicians instead of frontline services. Cut out the middleman, and whilst we're at it, bring in PR plus local referendums on issues like healthcare funding, council tax and public spending. Local referendums would do a lot more good than devolved parliaments / assemblies. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2022 20:37:03 GMT
Then why do we have de facto monopolies in our own country - monopolies that existed long before Brexit? Such as ? The NHS is not a monopoly, there is a market with BUPA, AXA etc. The Royal Mail is not a monopoly, there is FedEx, DHL, and lots of other couriers. What monopolies are we talking about here ? A lot of our utilities are de facto monopolies, same for telecoms and similar, our railways are monopolised by a few companies that don't have to compete with each other, buses across the country. There's a million other examples.
Yes England doesn't have devolution which sucks and is anti-democratic. We need our own parliament and to rule for ourselves as opposed to over others. You can have local referenda and PR as well as letting these others decide their own independence.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 13, 2022 20:52:26 GMT
Telecoms are not monopolies, utilities like water, only because they haven't found a way to privatise and marketise the choice for supply.
Railways and buses are on paper a market and that suits the EU.
It's not called the Single Market for nothing, it is a market.
England should only have an English Parliament if Scotland continues to have a Scottish Parliament and Wales continues to have a Welsh assembly.
I say transfer the powers of the devolved bodies to county councils, empower English councils to the same level and have local referendums on important public spending issues.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2022 21:03:08 GMT
Telecoms are not monopolies
They were acting like a monopoly until about 2016/17 when OpenReach was forcibly separated, but they were a monopoly, so I was wrong on my point. I had forgotten about that. But they were certainly a monopoly before we left the EU weren't they? More info here.
Many EU countries have efficiently run, largely state-run rail systems IIRC.
Which people don't have to join - even if they do join they don't have to opt-in to the whole thing and everything it entails. The EU will complain til the cows come home about "Europe a la carte" but in the end - the end result - is they are rather permissive - not entirely but largely.
We should have independence and so should they, maybe not Wales because it's too small to function independently, but definitely Scotland, and yes we should have two separate parliaments for England and Wales.
That sounds like a terrible idea given the corruption at the level of many councils.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 13, 2022 21:24:38 GMT
The thing regarding rail is the introduction of competition and the conversion of it into a market. transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-modes/rail/railway-packages/fourth-railway-package-2016_enNow on the fourth railways package, the EU is in the process of putting state owned companies into competition with each other, and breaking up monopolies. If you're Conservative / neo liberal (as most of them were at the time of the creation of these policies) you'd be happy with that, but if you're a socialist / protectionist and you do not believe everything should be a market, then the EU is not for you. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 14, 2022 7:05:42 GMT
The thing regarding rail is the introduction of competition and the conversion of it into a market. transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-modes/rail/railway-packages/fourth-railway-package-2016_enNow on the fourth railways package, the EU is in the process of putting state owned companies into competition with each other, and breaking up monopolies. If you're Conservative / neo liberal (as most of them were at the time of the creation of these policies) you'd be happy with that, but if you're a socialist / protectionist and you do not believe everything should be a market, then the EU is not for you. If im reading you right , you are insinuating that EU membership precludes a country from nationalising its rail network.
This has been done ad nauseum since 2016 if not before. EU membership does not preclude a country from maintaining a nationalised or renationalisng its rail network.
one of many articles on the subject...
www.christianwolmar.co.uk/2019/01/eu-membership-does-not-preclude-rail-renationalisation/
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 14, 2022 16:41:32 GMT
The thing regarding rail is the introduction of competition and the conversion of it into a market. transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-modes/rail/railway-packages/fourth-railway-package-2016_enNow on the fourth railways package, the EU is in the process of putting state owned companies into competition with each other, and breaking up monopolies. If you're Conservative / neo liberal (as most of them were at the time of the creation of these policies) you'd be happy with that, but if you're a socialist / protectionist and you do not believe everything should be a market, then the EU is not for you. If im reading you right , you are insinuating that EU membership precludes a country from nationalising its rail network.
This has been done ad nauseum since 2016 if not before. EU membership does not preclude a country from maintaining a nationalised or renationalisng its rail network.
one of many articles on the subject...
You are correct that there is nothing stopping you having a nationalised rail company - but what you cannot do is fail to allow competition from other companies - so your nationalised company competes against Virgin for example. When the great British Public talk about a Nationalised Railway they mean a return to the days of a vertically integrated British Rail. That type rail network would not be possible. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 14, 2022 17:12:00 GMT
If im reading you right , you are insinuating that EU membership precludes a country from nationalising its rail network.
This has been done ad nauseum since 2016 if not before. EU membership does not preclude a country from maintaining a nationalised or renationalisng its rail network.
one of many articles on the subject...
You are correct that there is nothing stopping you having a nationalised rail company - but what you cannot do is fail to allow competition from other companies - so your nationalised company competes against Virgin for example. When the great British Public talk about a Nationalised Railway they mean a return to the days of a vertically integrated British Rail. That type rail network would not be possible. So in other words more made up lies about the EU pacifico eh? A far cry from what vinny is suggesting dont you think?
Competition oh my. Who would have thought the EU could be so dastardly.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 14, 2022 17:43:28 GMT
You are correct that there is nothing stopping you having a nationalised rail company - but what you cannot do is fail to allow competition from other companies - so your nationalised company competes against Virgin for example. When the great British Public talk about a Nationalised Railway they mean a return to the days of a vertically integrated British Rail. That type rail network would not be possible. So in other words more made up lies about the EU pacifico eh? A far cry from what vinny is suggesting dont you think?
Competition oh my. Who would have thought the EU could be so dastardly.
What made up lies? Suggest you read Directive (EU) 2016/2370 - Directive 2004/51/EC and Directive 2007/58/EC. All of which map out the process over the years to introduce competition into the rail industry. |
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Post by jaydee on Oct 16, 2022 7:26:39 GMT
SIX in 10 voters would back Yes if they were convinced an independent Scotland will deliver higher pensions and an economy based on the health and happiness of its citizens, a new poll has revealed. The survey shows the importance of setting out a positive economic case for leaving the UK, ahead of the Scottish Government unveiling a paper outlining its approach tomorrow as part of its new prospectus on independence. That is not hard as the Uk has the worst pension in the developed world at 29% of average earnings. The SNP have promised it would rise to the European avereage. around £225 per week. That means 61% of Scottish voters would vote yes. www.thenational.scot/news/23052240.wellbeing-case-puts-scottish-independence-vote-61-bombshell-poll-fin  |
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Post by thomas on Oct 17, 2022 10:35:53 GMT
So in other words more made up lies about the EU pacifico eh? A far cry from what vinny is suggesting dont you think?
Competition oh my. Who would have thought the EU could be so dastardly.
What made up lies? Suggest you read Directive (EU) 2016/2370 - Directive 2004/51/EC and Directive 2007/58/EC. All of which map out the process over the years to introduce competition into the rail industry. ....but nothing in there that stops you having a nationalised rail industry despite the squeals from brexiters to the contrary , many of whom are right wing tories who dont like nationalisation anyway?
I tel you pacifico , there are many arguments for and against the EU. This one isnt one of them , and is nothing more than a complete red herring.
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