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Post by morayloon on Dec 15, 2022 15:44:07 GMT
1. I didn't say that. There should be some mechanism whereby the three other nations get a fair deal. Just now England gets what England wants regardless of the democratic view in NI, Scotland & Wales. Brexit is a case in point So now you are asking for a Veto for Scotland. How are you going to cope in the EU (should you ever become independent) where Vetos are being phased out?. Or is your only problem with the english? You claimed Scottish representatives were ignored in Parliament - Scots dont have to be in favour of independence to be a valid representative. Well surely in that case you would be better off trying to find out why you cannot convince your fellow Scots rather than complaining about the Constitutional settlement. Once you have a majority then you can start working out the mechanics of leaving. 1. A veto, or a qualified majority ie if two or more nations disagree then the policy falls. Brexit would have failed under that scenario, and rightly so. At the moment England has a veto. It can ignore the other nations at will e.g. Brexit, the Smith Commission amendments etc. I have no problem whatsoever with English people. My ill feeling is towards Westminster and the British political system. To have the veto removed requires unanimity in the European Council. As this article states, Hungary and some other members are likely to use their veto to put a stop to any move to qualified voting newseu.cgtn.com/news/2022-09-22/European-Union-considers-removing-veto-from-members-on-foreign-policy-1dvRNvfVhNm/index.html2. I didn't say they have to support Independence - do keep up! I said that Blair & Brown were Unionists 3. At the moment, the polls show majority support for YES. There are many people, on both sides, who are regarded as 'soft' voters on the constitutional question. It is them who we try to identify and provide facts and figures in support of Independence. It may have escaped your notice that Scotland is still part of the Union. Given that we are being held prisoner it is incumbent on our small band of representatives to fight for a fairer system |
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Post by morayloon on Dec 18, 2022 21:39:58 GMT
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 18, 2022 22:18:51 GMT
Well the yes response was actually only 49% - you only get to 52% by excluding the dont know/unsure responses. What is rather of more interest is that only 26% want to follow through on the de-facto referendum plan for the next election compared with 42% who want the whole independence campaign to be dropped for at least five years. |
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Post by morayloon on Dec 18, 2022 23:29:03 GMT
Well the yes response was actually only 49% - you only get to 52% by excluding the dont know/unsure responses. What is rather of more interest is that only 26% want to follow through on the de-facto referendum plan for the next election compared with 42% who want the whole independence campaign to be dropped for at least five years. People who don't vote in elections are not counted. The same thing is applied to polling. In any case, even counting the don't knows etc YES is in the lead and, that's what matters Very selective because there was a second option open to Independistas - force a snap Holyrood election which recorded 17% of the sample. Obviously the two options were given so that Unionists could point to the 26% when the truth is most, if not all, respondents who backed the 'snap election' option if it was not there, would have voted for the plebiscite option. That makes a small lead for the YESers 43% - 42%. Or 51-49 when don't knows are removed whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/should-the-snp-treat-the-next-westminster-election-as-a-de-facto-independence-referendum-call-a-snap-scottish-parliament-election-or-should-it-drop-independence-planning-for-at-least-five-years/ |
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Post by Vinny on Dec 19, 2022 1:18:10 GMT
So he's saying that whilst the UK shouldn't have left the EU as only 51.9% of the UK's voters who voted, voted leave in 2016, Scotland should be able to leave the UK as some spurious poll has yes on 49%?
Even though Scotland already voted on the matter, in a vote which his side said was a "once in a generation" vote.
Utter hypocrisy.
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Post by morayloon on Dec 19, 2022 2:09:43 GMT
So he's saying that whilst the UK shouldn't have left the EU as only 51.9% of the UK's voters who voted, voted leave in 2016, Scotland should be able to leave the UK as some spurious poll has yes on 49%? Even though Scotland already voted on the matter, in a vote which his side said was a "once in a generation" vote. Utter hypocrisy. The 51.9% comparison is not with the 49% as the former only counts the voters who voted whereas the latter includes the DKs. Also, 62% of Scots voted Remain but we were dragged out of the EU. This was a massive change in circumstance, one which should have given us another go at whether we want to stay or not. Refused by successive UK Governments, the SC judgement merely confirmed what we all thought, the UK will never give up Scotland easily. They will try every trick in the book to keep us hooked. The colony of Scotland is stuck in a prison with no way out. However, people HAVE escaped so, it's up to the SNP to come up with another course of action to free us. Once in a generation was never included in any document as you well know. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 19, 2022 7:47:45 GMT
Well the yes response was actually only 49% - you only get to 52% by excluding the dont know/unsure responses. What is rather of more interest is that only 26% want to follow through on the de-facto referendum plan for the next election compared with 42% who want the whole independence campaign to be dropped for at least five years. People who don't vote in elections are not counted. The same thing is applied to polling. In any case, even counting the don't knows etc YES is in the lead and, that's what matters But the point of the polling is to give an indication of the demand for another referendum - if you cannot point to a clear majority in favour of independence then the Government is firmly within its rights to claim that there has been no significant change in opinion since the last time a vote was held, and thus no point in having the expense and upheaval of a referendum vote. |
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Post by morayloon on Dec 19, 2022 10:27:06 GMT
People who don't vote in elections are not counted. The same thing is applied to polling. In any case, even counting the don't knows etc YES is in the lead and, that's what matters But the point of the polling is to give an indication of the demand for another referendum - if you cannot point to a clear majority in favour of independence then the Government is firmly within its rights to claim that there has been no significant change in opinion since the last time a vote was held, and thus no point in having the expense and upheaval of a referendum vote. Including DKs, a couple of polls have shown clear 50%+ results and only one of the others are within the margin of error. Had that ridiculous idea of yours been applied to Brexit we would still be sitting in the EU as no clear result for Leave was attained. The only time that was applied in UK was the 1979 Devolution referendum which we won but lost because of the devious 40% rule. I don't think such a hurdle would be so meekly accepted by YESers. The average lead in the polls, since the SC ruling, is 52.7% i.e. 8%% higher than was recorded in 2014. Panelbase 52% YouGov 53% FON 51% Ipsos 56% Redfield 54% YouGov 50.2% The significant change came in 2016 when 62% voted Remain yet we were dragged out of the EU because of the xenophobic beliefs of a majority of people in your country. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 19, 2022 11:36:41 GMT
But the point of the polling is to give an indication of the demand for another referendum - if you cannot point to a clear majority in favour of independence then the Government is firmly within its rights to claim that there has been no significant change in opinion since the last time a vote was held, and thus no point in having the expense and upheaval of a referendum vote. Including DKs, a couple of polls have shown clear 50%+ results and only one of the others are within the margin of error. Had that ridiculous idea of yours been applied to Brexit we would still be sitting in the EU as no clear result for Leave was attained. Well its not that ridiculous as its the process being used in Northern Ireland to decide when a Border Poll should be held as required by the Good Friday Agreement. If you cannot get a genuine majority in a poll then the reason for introducing a referendum is rather slim. |
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Post by morayloon on Dec 19, 2022 13:58:47 GMT
Including DKs, a couple of polls have shown clear 50%+ results and only one of the others are within the margin of error. Had that ridiculous idea of yours been applied to Brexit we would still be sitting in the EU as no clear result for Leave was attained. Well its not that ridiculous as its the process being used in Northern Ireland to decide when a Border Poll should be held as required by the Good Friday Agreement. If you cannot get a genuine majority in a poll then the reason for introducing a referendum is rather slim. I don't think so. Once you start putting artificial hurdles in the way of democratic questions, that need to be answered, democracy itself is under attack There was no 'genuine majority' for Brexit yet Scotland, which had such a majority, was dragged out by the English Europhobes. |
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Post by om15 on Dec 24, 2022 17:14:13 GMT
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Post by jaydee on Dec 25, 2022 10:47:09 GMT
Wow she is humilated. Ah well time to toss the white flag in and give up. I mean it must be true. It came from GB news. My god life will never be the same again. The First Minister has been dealt a deadly blow and HUMILATED. So in your tired sad little brain. Can she claim victory when it rises again. And you are humiliated. You still have not explained to me. How someone like who is so consumed with hate of the Jocks. It eats you up. And do not have one scoobie why. Why are you not rooting for the SNP and the Scots to leave the Union. Then you can keep all that money you say you give them. As Spock would say, It does not compute Capitan. Scotty. Give 0M15 warp speed. It goes with his brain. FFS it is continual. By the way what does the polls say about the Westminster wankers. Let me think. Ah apart from all Unionist party's being destroyed and decimated in Scotland. The Tory wankers will lose in England. But what the hell. Its time for the Scots will have to use the Euro. And how the inbreeders wreck the Scottish education system. |
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Post by morayloon on Dec 25, 2022 11:34:49 GMT
And that equates to 49-51 when DKs are removed. It is well within the 3% margin of error. |
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Post by Vinny on Dec 25, 2022 13:12:54 GMT
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Morayloon.
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Post by morayloon on Dec 25, 2022 16:06:34 GMT
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Morayloon. And to you. It being Christmas, that bottle of Glen Moray will be finished or are you keeping it for next weekend? |
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