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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 1, 2024 22:44:00 GMT
The reason for that is very simple. In those times very little was written down. Information was communicated orally, so what we know is very shaky and just guesses based on what artifacts the archaeologists can uncover. The pre-Christian pagan culture was often very brutal with human sacrifice and all. I studied it a little myself, but also don't recall any reference to homosexuality. There is evidence they worshipped goddesses though from what we can make out. That does not necessarily imply the women were boss. As far as I know, no civilisation has ever existed that has been controlled by women. Blighty could be the first. The Mosuo are very interesting. They're a matriarchal tribe who practise 'walking marriage'. Also the warrior queens of Kush. I recall the same debate on this some 20 years ago when the UN was promoting this ancient civilisation as one run by women, and some learned scholar said that's fake and none have ever existed.
I'm personally not that educated to know every culture that has ever existed, but since Google has an answer to everything then it does not surprise me in these politically correct times that there is such a thing, and yet...
my hunch was correct.
I've seen the Chinese Buddhists in Tibet and note that tourism is very welcome. It keeps the bills paid.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 1, 2024 23:13:39 GMT
Yes but Christianity was growing in strength, so by that time nearly everyone was with the church and sincerely believed in it. The word heathen comes from heath dweller and was from that time. They were very much living on the periphery of society. The church had all the power. The average person of that time felt safe in the presence of Christians. You might see it as brutal compared to modern standards, but relatively speaking it was all about being good to one another. It was the 18th and 19th centuries that romanticised the pagans. They had a rose-tinted spectacle view of them, and nothing to do with the real thing. Paganism is a cult. It does not do your brain any good. They believed it because they had no choice t but to believe it . Other beliefs could seriously damage your life expectancy. Indeed it was and this is why it was so popular. If you do a good search on the Internet you might find some very old pieces of writing that have been recovered. There is not much we have, but reading what we do have kind of gives you a feel for the views of those of that time. You go riding off on your horse and come across a traveller, and if he is Christian he would be wearing a cross to identify him as such and through seeing that you know he will be the Good Samaritan and help you. Meet a pagan and you could get a knife stuck in you and be robbed. The non-Christians had no moral sense. All we take for granted in terms of doing good to others just did not exist pre-christian times, and the Romans were no better either. They were run by the military and you got in their way and you would end up as dog food. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 1, 2024 23:22:22 GMT
There's a difference between "held in high esteem" and "allowed significant freedoms". I wrote a 3,000 word paper on it in the first year of my Ancient History Masters Degree. Example, Athenian women of the land-owning class (note the men owned the property) were the only women who could produce a legal Athenian heir. So they were "protected" by being denied some freedoms because of the esteem of producing legal heirs. I am not saying it is not sexist, of course it is; but it is ludicrous to claim they were not held in high esteem. All The Best Vestal virgins has were held in high esteem . Until they stooped being virgins . What is the point in being held high in esteem when you held so low in esteem that you have little or no freedom At least admit that only Spartan women were considered more than chattels ..high esteem or not . Did you mention that in your 3000 word paper.Something that I already knew and managed to confirm it on google after 5 minutes . Modern tech eh? Yeah, 5 Mins on Google is obviously a far better medium of learning than 20 hours a week study at masters level. NOT. And please don't believe all the myths about Sparta. Spartan women really only had 3 rights: 1) The right to own property, so if their sons and husbands died in war the land would be retained by a full-blooded Spartan family. 2) The right to exercise to maintain fitness for healthy breeding. 3) The right to enter into business transactions; necessary when the "man of the house" was away at war for 2/3rds of the year. The "rights" Spartan women had served two purposes: 1) Free men from the bins of managing a household (business transactions etc) so they could go to war. 2) Breeding he next generation of Spartans who would then go to war. Even with these Rights and Freedoms Spartan Women were still NOT considered "citizens". Their role was to breed more citizens. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 1, 2024 23:27:58 GMT
Homosexual activists changed the medical book of definitions to remove the reference to homosexuality being an illness, but not on medical grounds. This marks a big shift from what it was considered in the 60s to what it would become in the 70s, and those activists were American, as you would expect. It's just another case of our laws and customs being dictated by foreign powers. I believe the promotion of it serves to attack masculinity for the purpose of making the citizens weak agaisnt an ever stronger and more authoritarian government who prosecute for speech now. It is believed speech hurts people. Homosexuality was ONLY outlawed once control of our country had been ceded to the "foreign power" of Christianity. For fuck sake, learn basic history. Oh and the pathetic myth that Homosexuals are less masculine and somehow weaker: go learn a bit more history "Theban Sacred Band". One of the few Greek units capable of beating Spartans, in fact they all but ended Spartan dominance in war with the battles of Tegyra, Leuctra, and Chaeronea. All The Best |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 1, 2024 23:57:20 GMT
They believed it because they had no choice t but to believe it . Other beliefs could seriously damage your life expectancy. Indeed it was and this is why it was so popular. If you do a good search on the Internet you might find some very old pieces of writing that have been recovered. There is not much we have, but reading what we do have kind of gives you a feel for the views of those of that time. You go riding off on your horse and come across a traveller, and if he is Christian he would be wearing a cross to identify him as such and through seeing that you know he will be the Good Samaritan and help you. Meet a pagan and you could get a knife stuck in you and be robbed. The non-Christians had no moral sense. All we take for granted in terms of doing good to others just did not exist pre-christian times, and the Romans were no better either. They were run by the military and you got in their way and you would end up as dog food. It wasnt popular, it was compulsory and if course the church would tell you that heretics and blasphemers were dangerous. It’s called propaganda. |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 2, 2024 0:04:46 GMT
Vestal virgins has were held in high esteem . Until they stooped being virgins . What is the point in being held high in esteem when you held so low in esteem that you have little or no freedom At least admit that only Spartan women were considered more than chattels ..high esteem or not . Did you mention that in your 3000 word paper.Something that I already knew and managed to confirm it on google after 5 minutes . Modern tech eh? Yeah, 5 Mins on Google is obviously a far better medium of learning than 20 hours a week study at masters level. NOT. And please don't believe all the myths about Sparta. Spartan women really only had 3 rights: 1) The right to own property, so if their sons and husbands died in war the land would be retained by a full-blooded Spartan family. 2) The right to exercise to maintain fitness for healthy breeding. 3) The right to enter into business transactions; necessary when the "man of the house" was away at war for 2/3rds of the year. The "rights" Spartan women had served two purposes: 1) Free men from the bins of managing a household (business transactions etc) so they could go to war. 2) Breeding he next generation of Spartans who would then go to war. Even with these Rights and Freedoms Spartan Women were still NOT considered "citizens". Their role was to breed more citizens. All The Best Indeed and ironically 5 minutes of googling was worth more than your 20 hours of study per week . Im not the one confusing high esteem with oppression.. Greek women had the high esteem equivalent of kennel club champion pedigree breeding bitches . At least the Spartan women were let off the leash. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 2, 2024 1:40:26 GMT
Homosexual activists changed the medical book of definitions to remove the reference to homosexuality being an illness, but not on medical grounds. This marks a big shift from what it was considered in the 60s to what it would become in the 70s, and those activists were American, as you would expect. It's just another case of our laws and customs being dictated by foreign powers. I believe the promotion of it serves to attack masculinity for the purpose of making the citizens weak agaisnt an ever stronger and more authoritarian government who prosecute for speech now. It is believed speech hurts people. Homosexuality was ONLY outlawed once control of our country had been ceded to the "foreign power" of Christianity. For fuck sake, learn basic history. Oh and the pathetic myth that Homosexuals are less masculine and somehow weaker: go learn a bit more history "Theban Sacred Band". One of the few Greek units capable of beating Spartans, in fact they all but ended Spartan dominance in war with the battles of Tegyra, Leuctra, and Chaeronea. All The Best You should view the context I was referring to. I was not talking about the Greeks, which I know were into being athletic. I was considering the weakness of mind in modern times. I mean a feminine mind would traditionally be of a subservient nature, not forceful and demanding. There is a reversal going on where women are expected to behave in a masculine way and vice-versa for men, and of course now we have transgender stuff which just takes it one stage further. My theory is this is done as a means of social control, and these things are figured out in academia. I don't really have any more of a logical explanation than that, but as mentioned before, I suspect the group think has led it down some garden path where it convinces those that work in it, as in self-reinforcing bullshit. I was especially fascinated in the linguistics of those that managed the post office since it is mostly documented regarding official discussion. The language suggests a weird imprecise ways of thinking, most alien to someone like myself.
Anyway, I can't say I've done any masters in ancient history, but I've had a dabble in studying parts of it and found it most interesting. Good to hear someone on here has bothered to do some academic study - could be useful.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 2, 2024 3:16:42 GMT
Yeah, 5 Mins on Google is obviously a far better medium of learning than 20 hours a week study at masters level. NOT. And please don't believe all the myths about Sparta. Spartan women really only had 3 rights: 1) The right to own property, so if their sons and husbands died in war the land would be retained by a full-blooded Spartan family. 2) The right to exercise to maintain fitness for healthy breeding. 3) The right to enter into business transactions; necessary when the "man of the house" was away at war for 2/3rds of the year. The "rights" Spartan women had served two purposes: 1) Free men from the bins of managing a household (business transactions etc) so they could go to war. 2) Breeding he next generation of Spartans who would then go to war. Even with these Rights and Freedoms Spartan Women were still NOT considered "citizens". Their role was to breed more citizens. All The Best Indeed and ironically 5 minutes of googling was worth more than your 20 hours of study per week . Im not the one confusing high esteem with oppression.. Greek women had the high esteem equivalent of kennel club champion pedigree breeding bitches . At least the Spartan women were let off the leash. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 2, 2024 3:19:46 GMT
Homosexuality was ONLY outlawed once control of our country had been ceded to the "foreign power" of Christianity. For fuck sake, learn basic history. Oh and the pathetic myth that Homosexuals are less masculine and somehow weaker: go learn a bit more history "Theban Sacred Band". One of the few Greek units capable of beating Spartans, in fact they all but ended Spartan dominance in war with the battles of Tegyra, Leuctra, and Chaeronea. All The Best You should view the context I was referring to. I was not talking about the Greeks, which I know were into being athletic. I was considering the weakness of mind in modern times. I mean a feminine mind would traditionally be of a subservient nature, not forceful and demanding. There is a reversal going on where women are expected to behave in a masculine way and vice-versa for men, and of course now we have transgender stuff which just takes it one stage further. My theory is this is done as a means of social control, and these things are figured out in academia. I don't really have any more of a logical explanation than that, but as mentioned before, I suspect the group think has led it down some garden path where it convinces those that work in it, as in self-reinforcing bullshit. I was especially fascinated in the linguistics of those that managed the post office since it is mostly documented regarding official discussion. The language suggests a weird imprecise ways of thinking, most alien to someone like myself.
Anyway, I can't say I've done any masters in ancient history, but I've had a dabble in studying parts of it and found it most interesting. Good to hear someone on here has bothered to do some academic study - could be useful.
You have evidence of that? You saying Margaret Thatcher (lover her or loathe her, and I loathe her) was " of a subservient nature, not forceful and demanding"? Have you ever actually met, spoke to, and interacted with a real woman. Because your post is giving off a quite obvious Incel fantasy vibe. All The Best |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 2, 2024 8:56:00 GMT
You should view the context I was referring to. I was not talking about the Greeks, which I know were into being athletic. I was considering the weakness of mind in modern times. I mean a feminine mind would traditionally be of a subservient nature, not forceful and demanding. There is a reversal going on where women are expected to behave in a masculine way and vice-versa for men, and of course now we have transgender stuff which just takes it one stage further. My theory is this is done as a means of social control, and these things are figured out in academia. I don't really have any more of a logical explanation than that, but as mentioned before, I suspect the group think has led it down some garden path where it convinces those that work in it, as in self-reinforcing bullshit. I was especially fascinated in the linguistics of those that managed the post office since it is mostly documented regarding official discussion. The language suggests a weird imprecise ways of thinking, most alien to someone like myself.
Anyway, I can't say I've done any masters in ancient history, but I've had a dabble in studying parts of it and found it most interesting. Good to hear someone on here has bothered to do some academic study - could be useful.
You have evidence of that? You saying Margaret Thatcher (lover her or loathe her, and I loathe her) was " of a subservient nature, not forceful and demanding"? Have you ever actually met, spoke to, and interacted with a real woman. Because your post is giving off a quite obvious Incel fantasy vibe. All The Best No, it is you who are using a made-up word. There is no such thing as an incel, it is just propaganda. Do you think every woman is like Thatcher or perhaps I've never met any women. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 2, 2024 9:15:37 GMT
You have evidence of that? You saying Margaret Thatcher (lover her or loathe her, and I loathe her) was " of a subservient nature, not forceful and demanding"? Have you ever actually met, spoke to, and interacted with a real woman. Because your post is giving off a quite obvious Incel fantasy vibe. All The Best No, it is you who are using a made-up word. There is no such thing as an incel, it is just propaganda. Do you think every woman is like Thatcher or perhaps I've never met any women. 1) All words are made up; all languages are artificial constructs. But, as Google is obviously beyond you, here you go: Incel
2) Clearly not every woman is like Thatcher; however, if you have an hypothesis I only need ONE counter-example to prove your hypothesis wrong. Therefore, Thatcher being Thatcher utterly destroys your ridiculous argument. 3) I am beginning to doubt you have ever met a woman, apart from your mother. I think it abundantly clear you've never actually spoken to a woman at length about anything. All The Best |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 2, 2024 9:27:30 GMT
No, it is you who are using a made-up word. There is no such thing as an incel, it is just propaganda. Do you think every woman is like Thatcher or perhaps I've never met any women. 1) All words are made up; all languages are artificial constructs. But, as Google is obviously beyond you, here you go: Incel
2) Clearly not every woman is like Thatcher; however, if you have an hypothesis I only need ONE counter-example to prove your hypothesis wrong. Therefore, Thatcher being Thatcher utterly destroys your ridiculous argument. 3) I am beginning to doubt you have ever met a woman, apart from your mother. I think it abundantly clear you've never actually spoken to a woman at length about anything. All The Best Look, this is in the mind zone and instead of arguing the subject, which you claim to be somewhat an academic, you have resorted to attacking my personality, and not only that but a second attempt was made by another poster to steer it around to a supposed problem involving myself. Now of course you would not like me to attack your stature and may think it is hardly the actions of a disciplined academic. So cut it out or we might end up getting posts removed, which was not my intention. My intention was to have an interesting discussion to figure out what is going on to cause nationwide madness and stupidity. If you destroy all threads of this nature then the forum will end up as constant fights and irrelevance. I've already had some idiot on the Godfrey Bloom channel delete my post explaining why the WEF does not control the world. I do not like living in idiotsville and ask you to cut it out. Use your brain and attack the subject, not the messenger. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 2, 2024 9:59:29 GMT
1) All words are made up; all languages are artificial constructs. But, as Google is obviously beyond you, here you go: Incel
2) Clearly not every woman is like Thatcher; however, if you have an hypothesis I only need ONE counter-example to prove your hypothesis wrong. Therefore, Thatcher being Thatcher utterly destroys your ridiculous argument. 3) I am beginning to doubt you have ever met a woman, apart from your mother. I think it abundantly clear you've never actually spoken to a woman at length about anything. All The Best Look, this is in the mind zone and instead of arguing the subject, which you claim to be somewhat an academic, you have resorted to attacking my personality, and not only that but a second attempt was made by another poster to steer it around to a supposed problem involving myself. Now of course you would not like me to attack your stature and may think it is hardly the actions of a disciplined academic. So cut it out or we might end up getting posts removed, which was not my intention. My intention was to have an interesting discussion to figure out what is going on to cause nationwide madness and stupidity. If you destroy all threads of this nature then the forum will end up as constant fights and irrelevance. I've already had some idiot on the Godfrey Bloom channel delete my post explaining why the WEF does not control the world. I do not like living in idiotsville and ask you to cut it out. Use your brain and attack the subject, not the messenger. Nope, your intention was to spread already discredited propaganda. When that propaganda has been refuted, even in this thread, you have resoundingly ignored the refutation and continued you spread that propaganda. You want free reign to post bullshit without it being challenged. You have not even demonstrated that the "nationwide madness and stupidity" you want top discover the cause of even exists. I don't care if you attack me. I note you feel it OK to call someone who opposes your views an idiot, but then complain about shooting the messenger. Your arguments are littered with clear falsehoods, unsupported claims and obvious double-standards. Which of my three points do you take issue with? The fact that all words are "made up"? The fact that the existence of Thatcher destroyed your basic argument that a feminine mind is subservient (unless you ae claiming Thatcher was actually a man in a woman's body, but that also destroys your argument)? Or my opinion that you've never actually spoken to a real woman at length about anything? All The Best |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 2, 2024 12:30:07 GMT
Indeed and ironically 5 minutes of googling was worth more than your 20 hours of study per week . Im not the one confusing high esteem with oppression.. Greek women had the high esteem equivalent of kennel club champion pedigree breeding bitches . At least the Spartan women were let off the leash. All The Best You don’t have a point . The best that you have is that Spartan women were treated as badly as the rest of the Greek women( who themselves were treated as brood mares )but in a different way . I’ve posted 3 sources that confirm Ancient Greek women were treated as chattels for Greek men and you have posted nothing to refute it. So if you don’t mind I’ll believe the believable source . |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 2, 2024 12:55:04 GMT
Exactly my point.No, they really weren't.All The Best You don’t have a point . The best that you have is that Spartan women were treated as badly as the rest of the Greek women( who themselves were treated as brood mares )but in a different way . I’ve posted 3 sources that confirm Ancient Greek women were treated as chattels for Greek men and you have posted nothing to refute it. So if you don’t mind I’ll believe the believable source . Hmm, that reminds me that I heard somewhere that the colour of red or pink in terms of how the ancient Greeks understood it, symbolises the flesh, which in their divine cosmology was considered worldly (corporeal in Medieval speak) rather than the higher spiritual or academic levels. Of all the arts, they rated poetry as most divine and the study of which raises their spirit or whatever to the highest level of human achievement just below the gods themselves. So this is where you get the association of red/pink for women's wear from, as pertaining to the flesh, and no doubt reproduction. It tends to gel with your view above. There is probably something about women in Plato's Republic as well. He had a well ordered view of how society should be. For the boys their eduction would include military training. There was no equality back then. |
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