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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 1, 2024 20:03:52 GMT
Ignorant and false in once sentence. You know why most priestly robes look like dresses? Because originally the priests of almost all religions were female - hence female garb. Men have only been the leaders "from the beginning of time" in two fields - War and Manual Labour, for obvious reasons.
99% of all forms of cross-generational learning were passed on by Women; because women stayed "at camp" while men went off hunting and warring. Women were the only gender with both the sedentary lifestyle and time to a) pass on learning, and b) make ground-breaking discoveries that can only be found by hundreds of iterations of trial-and-error; because they stayed "at camp" while men went off hunting and warring. It is really only with the Romans that women came to be seen as "inferior", and then once the vile doctrine of Christianity was spread (by conflict and violence) all across Europe that thinking was cemented in the collective psyche. Men have only been the "leaders since the beginning of time" if you are dumb-fuck enough to think the Bible is a) real and b) of any real moral value. All The Best Afaik women were seen as inferior to the Greeks too. Spartan women were the exception. Your claim about dresses might have had some merit if men in ancient times mostly wore trousers .. Ancient Greeks held Greek women in high-esteem because they were the only women who could give birth to a legal Greek citizen. To be fair that high esteem was, to more modern eyes, seen as restrictive Spartan Women had the right to own property in the way that most other Greek women did not, primarily to ensure that land remained within Spartan ownership. The short kilt worn by men was VERY different to long robes worn by women and priests. All The Best
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Post by Bentley on Jul 1, 2024 20:13:16 GMT
Afaik women were seen as inferior to the Greeks too. Spartan women were the exception. Your claim about dresses might have had some merit if men in ancient times mostly wore trousers .. Ancient Greeks held Greek women in high-esteem because they were the only women who could give birth to a legal Greek citizen. To be fair that high esteem was, to more modern eyes, seen as restrictive Spartan Women had the right to own property in the way that most other Greek women did not, primarily to ensure that land remained within Spartan ownership. The short kilt worn by men was VERY different to long robes worn by women and priests. All The Best No they didn’t . All Greek states apart from Sparta did not allow women any significant freedoms . Women and priests ? Like male priests ?
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 1, 2024 20:16:44 GMT
Ignorant and false in once sentence. You know why most priestly robes look like dresses? Because originally the priests of almost all religions were female - hence female garb...Early Cycladic sculpture dates back to 5300 BC - 3200 BC and depicts steatopygous female fertility symbols. Zeus and his Sky god pantheon were pre-dated by fertility goddess cults the likes of which have been found in numerous other cultures all over the world. I'm also thinking of the secret cults that were the Greco-Roman mystery religions. The cult of Demeter at Eleusis comes to mind. Indeed. There is ample evidence that the male portion of the Greek Pantheon was a later addition, and that the older Greek pantheon was primarily female. Obviously a lot of the Roman Pantheon was either adopted from the Greek or conflated with it so much, even in antiquity, that in many cases it is effectively impossible to disentangle them with any degree of certainty. All The Best
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Post by Bentley on Jul 1, 2024 20:22:14 GMT
Women were celebrated in art during the renaissance . Does that mean that’s renaissance society venerated Women? Celebration of female fertility is no indication that women held high positions in society . The Neolithic and Early Cycladic figures of nude women with arms folded across their abdomens sculpted in the Greek islands at the center of the Aegean Sea represent a unique culture that flourished from around 5300 to 2000 BCE and suddenly disappeared. The later Greeks called these islands Cycladic, from the Greek kyklos (circle), as they encircle Delos, the sacred birthplace of the Olympian twins Artemis, goddess of nature, fertility, and childbirth, and Apollo, god of music, medicine, and the sun. Who were these prehistoric white marble figures, and what did their characteristic pose signify? The meaning of these figures has eluded archaeologists since their rediscovery nearly two centuries ago www.metmuseum.org/perspectives/articles/2024/01/cycladic-figures
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Post by Bentley on Jul 1, 2024 20:25:46 GMT
Just a random search …. Greek women had virtually no political rights of any kind and were controlled by men at nearly every stage of their lives. The most important duties for a city-dwelling woman were to bear children--preferably male--and to run the household. www.penn.museum/sites/Greek_world/women.html#:~:text=column&text=Greek%20women%20had%20virtually%20no,and%20to%20run%20the%20household. Women in Classical Athens had no legal personhood and were assumed to be part of the oikos (household) headed by the male kyrios (master). In Athenian society, the legal term of a wife was known as a damar, a word that is derived from the root meaning of "to subdue" or "to tame".[9] Until marriage, women were under the guardianship of their fathers or other male relatives; once married, the husband became a woman's kyrios. While the average age to get married for men was around 30, the average age for women was 14. This system was implemented as a way to help ensure that girls were virgins when they wed. It also made it possible for a husband to choose his wife's next husband, should she survive him.[10] As women were barred from conducting legal proceedings, the kyrios would do so on their behalf. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_GreeceWomen in the ancient Greek world had few rights in comparison to male citizens. Unable to vote, own land, or inherit, a woman's place was in the home and her purpose in life was the rearing of children. That is a general description and when considering Greek women one should remember our sources are incomplete and not always unbiased. Unfortunately, information regarding specific city-states is often lacking regarding women and is almost always from male authors. Only in Athens can their status and role be described in any great detail. Neither are we sure of the practical and everyday application of the rules and laws that have survived from antiquity. We do know that Spartan women were treated somewhat differently than in other states. For example, they had to do physical training like men, were permitted to own land, and could drink wine. Women in the ancient Greek world had few rights in comparison to male citizens. Unable to vote, own land, or inherit, a woman's place was in the home and her pu…
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 1, 2024 20:41:09 GMT
Ancient Greeks held Greek women in high-esteem because they were the only women who could give birth to a legal Greek citizen. To be fair that high esteem was, to more modern eyes, seen as restrictive Spartan Women had the right to own property in the way that most other Greek women did not, primarily to ensure that land remained within Spartan ownership. The short kilt worn by men was VERY different to long robes worn by women and priests. All The Best No they didn’t . All Greek states apart from Sparta did not allow women any significant freedoms . Women and priests ? Like male priests ? There's a difference between "held in high esteem" and "allowed significant freedoms". I wrote a 3,000 word paper on it in the first year of my Ancient History Masters Degree. Example, Athenian women of the land-owning class (note the men owned the property) were the only women who could produce a legal Athenian heir. So they were "protected" by being denied some freedoms because of the esteem of producing legal heirs. I am not saying it is not sexist, of course it is; but it is ludicrous to claim they were not held in high esteem. All The Best
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 1, 2024 20:44:00 GMT
Homosexual activists changed the medical book of definitions to remove the reference to homosexuality being an illness, but not on medical grounds. This marks a big shift from what it was considered in the 60s to what it would become in the 70s, and those activists were American, as you would expect. It's just another case of our laws and customs being dictated by foreign powers. I believe the promotion of it serves to attack masculinity for the purpose of making the citizens weak agaisnt an ever stronger and more authoritarian government who prosecute for speech now. It is believed speech hurts people. I’m not sure about the attitude towards homosexuality before Christianity was introduced into Europe . Christianity holds that homosexuality is offence to God ( or did until it was deemed not to be ) so unless the pre Christian attitude to homosexuality was intolerant then we can conclude that intolerance to homosexuality was imposed on us by a cult that was formed outside of Europe . The reason for that is very simple. In those times very little was written down. Information was communicated orally, so what we know is very shaky and just guesses based on what artifacts the archaeologists can uncover. The pre-Christian pagan culture was often very brutal with human sacrifice and all. I studied it a little myself, but also don't recall any reference to homosexuality. There is evidence they worshipped goddesses though from what we can make out. That does not necessarily imply the women were boss. As far as I know, no civilisation has ever existed that has been controlled by women. Blighty could be the first.
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Post by Bentley on Jul 1, 2024 20:54:25 GMT
I’m not sure about the attitude towards homosexuality before Christianity was introduced into Europe . Christianity holds that homosexuality is offence to God ( or did until it was deemed not to be ) so unless the pre Christian attitude to homosexuality was intolerant then we can conclude that intolerance to homosexuality was imposed on us by a cult that was formed outside of Europe . The reason for that is very simple. In those times very little was written down. Information was communicated orally, so what we know is very shaky and just guesses based on what artifacts the archaeologists can uncover. The pre-Christian pagan culture was often very brutal with human sacrifice and all. I studied it a little myself, but also don't recall any reference to homosexuality. There is evidence they worshipped goddesses though from what we can make out. That does not necessarily imply the women were boss. As far as I know, no civilisation has ever existed that has been controlled by women. Blighty could be the first. Post Christian society was often very brutal and practiced human sacrifice too. Everytime someone was burnt at the stack , they were a sacrificed to the Christian God. A human sacrifice that put the fear of god into any heretics . The rest of your post doesn't address my point yet kind of supports it . As for worshipping women . Christs mother Mary was second only Christ in the Christian pecking order ..but she needed to be a virgin for that. Mary Magdalene was considered to be a reformed whore but that was never stated in the Gospels. She is further down the charts .
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Post by Ripley on Jul 1, 2024 20:58:20 GMT
I’m not sure about the attitude towards homosexuality before Christianity was introduced into Europe . Christianity holds that homosexuality is offence to God ( or did until it was deemed not to be ) so unless the pre Christian attitude to homosexuality was intolerant then we can conclude that intolerance to homosexuality was imposed on us by a cult that was formed outside of Europe . The reason for that is very simple. In those times very little was written down. Information was communicated orally, so what we know is very shaky and just guesses based on what artifacts the archaeologists can uncover. The pre-Christian pagan culture was often very brutal with human sacrifice and all. I studied it a little myself, but also don't recall any reference to homosexuality. There is evidence they worshipped goddesses though from what we can make out. That does not necessarily imply the women were boss. As far as I know, no civilisation has ever existed that has been controlled by women. Blighty could be the first. The Mosuo are very interesting. They're a matriarchal tribe who practise 'walking marriage'. Also the warrior queens of Kush.
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Post by Bentley on Jul 1, 2024 20:59:16 GMT
No they didn’t . All Greek states apart from Sparta did not allow women any significant freedoms . Women and priests ? Like male priests ? There's a difference between "held in high esteem" and "allowed significant freedoms". I wrote a 3,000 word paper on it in the first year of my Ancient History Masters Degree. Example, Athenian women of the land-owning class (note the men owned the property) were the only women who could produce a legal Athenian heir. So they were "protected" by being denied some freedoms because of the esteem of producing legal heirs. I am not saying it is not sexist, of course it is; but it is ludicrous to claim they were not held in high esteem. All The Best Vestal virgins has were held in high esteem . Until they stooped being virgins . What is the point in being held high in esteem when you held so low in esteem that you have little or no freedom At least admit that only Spartan women were considered more than chattels ..high esteem or not . Did you mention that in your 3000 word paper.Something that I already knew and managed to confirm it on google after 5 minutes . Modern tech eh?
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 1, 2024 21:57:13 GMT
The reason for that is very simple. In those times very little was written down. Information was communicated orally, so what we know is very shaky and just guesses based on what artifacts the archaeologists can uncover. The pre-Christian pagan culture was often very brutal with human sacrifice and all. I studied it a little myself, but also don't recall any reference to homosexuality. There is evidence they worshipped goddesses though from what we can make out. That does not necessarily imply the women were boss. As far as I know, no civilisation has ever existed that has been controlled by women. Blighty could be the first. Post Christian society was often very brutal and practiced human sacrifice too. Everytime someone was burnt at the stack , they were a sacrificed to the Christian God. A human sacrifice that put the fear of god into any heretics . The rest of your post doesn't address my point yet kind of supports it . As for worshipping women . Christs mother Mary was second only Christ in the Christian pecking order ..but she needed to be a virgin for that. Mary Magdalene was considered to be a reformed whore but that was never stated in the Gospels. She is further down the charts . The anti-witching laws came about as I understood it, not by any Christian creed so much as the practical problems in what these witches were up to. Far from being innocent, or in some cases it may well have been naivety, the witches were going around plying their trade which involved a lot of poisoning of people and what people regarded as fakery, as per one needed the correct charms to make one's crop grow so one would not die of starvation. The thing was life was incredibly hard in those days just to survive and I understand the witching thing got out of hand as successive laws were passed. The witches themselves were around the bend and as they saw them they considered that they had been entirely possessed by the devil and had no soul left, hence they were no longer human and just a living form of the devil that was intent on killing them. Perhaps it was all those crazy concoctions they took themselves which contributed to the craziness, but you have someone who will run at you with a knife and try to kill you, then to save the village the witch had to be got rid of. It was a primitive society which we would find impossible to imagine. Prisons mainly came about in Victorian times as a humane was to deal with criminals. This was pre-science as well. The bible along with classical texts was what they considered to be correct just as we rely on science to inform us of what is correct, and of course we get it wrong a lot even today. The good news was the Christian creed was slowly civilising us. We would still be barbarians had we never applied it.
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Post by wapentake on Jul 1, 2024 22:02:51 GMT
Women are usually in charge even when it appears not,you only have to see one of Rackhams threads to see that.
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Post by Bentley on Jul 1, 2024 22:04:15 GMT
Post Christian society was often very brutal and practiced human sacrifice too. Everytime someone was burnt at the stack , they were a sacrificed to the Christian God. A human sacrifice that put the fear of god into any heretics . The rest of your post doesn't address my point yet kind of supports it . As for worshipping women . Christs mother Mary was second only Christ in the Christian pecking order ..but she needed to be a virgin for that. Mary Magdalene was considered to be a reformed whore but that was never stated in the Gospels. She is further down the charts . The anti-witching laws came about as I understood it, not by any Christian creed so much as the practical problems in what these witches were up to. Far from being innocent, or in some cases it may well have been naivety, the witches were going around plying their trade which involved a lot of poisoning of people and what people regarded as fakery, as per one needed the correct charms to make one's crop grow so one would not die of starvation. The thing was life was incredibly hard in those days just to survive and I understand the witching thing got out of hand as successive laws were passed. The witches themselves were around the bend and as they saw them they considered that they had been entirely possessed by the devil and had no soul left, hence they were no longer human and just a living form of the devil that was intent on killing them. Perhaps it was all those crazy concoctions they took themselves which contributed to the craziness, but you have someone who will run at you with a knife and try to kill you, then to save the village the witch had to be got rid of. It was a primitive society which we would find impossible to imagine. Prisons mainly came about in Victorian times as a humane was to deal with criminals. This was pre-science as well. The bible along with classical texts was what they considered to be correct just as we rely on science to inform us of what is correct, and of course we get it wrong a lot even today. The good news was the Christian creed was slowly civilising us. We would still be barbarians had we never applied it. The Christian church was ruthless and witchcraft was a rival. So they suppressed it . Just as religion is a rival to the doctrine of the CCP so China suppresses it. It’s not rocket science.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 1, 2024 22:31:59 GMT
The anti-witching laws came about as I understood it, not by any Christian creed so much as the practical problems in what these witches were up to. Far from being innocent, or in some cases it may well have been naivety, the witches were going around plying their trade which involved a lot of poisoning of people and what people regarded as fakery, as per one needed the correct charms to make one's crop grow so one would not die of starvation. The thing was life was incredibly hard in those days just to survive and I understand the witching thing got out of hand as successive laws were passed. The witches themselves were around the bend and as they saw them they considered that they had been entirely possessed by the devil and had no soul left, hence they were no longer human and just a living form of the devil that was intent on killing them. Perhaps it was all those crazy concoctions they took themselves which contributed to the craziness, but you have someone who will run at you with a knife and try to kill you, then to save the village the witch had to be got rid of. It was a primitive society which we would find impossible to imagine. Prisons mainly came about in Victorian times as a humane was to deal with criminals. This was pre-science as well. The bible along with classical texts was what they considered to be correct just as we rely on science to inform us of what is correct, and of course we get it wrong a lot even today. The good news was the Christian creed was slowly civilising us. We would still be barbarians had we never applied it. The Christian church was ruthless and witchcraft was a rival. So they suppressed it . Just as religion is a rival to the doctrine of the CCP so China suppresses it. It’s not rocket science. Yes but Christianity was growing in strength, so by that time nearly everyone was with the church and sincerely believed in it. The word heathen comes from heath dweller and was from that time. They were very much living on the periphery of society. The church had all the power. The average person of that time felt safe in the presence of Christians. You might see it as brutal compared to modern standards, but relatively speaking it was all about being good to one another. It was the 18th and 19th centuries that romanticised the pagans. They had a rose-tinted spectacle view of them, and nothing to do with the real thing. Paganism is a cult. It does not do your brain any good.
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Post by Bentley on Jul 1, 2024 22:34:50 GMT
The Christian church was ruthless and witchcraft was a rival. So they suppressed it . Just as religion is a rival to the doctrine of the CCP so China suppresses it. It’s not rocket science. Yes but Christianity was growing in strength, so by that time nearly everyone was with the church and sincerely believed in it. The word heathen comes from heath dweller and was from that time. They were very much living on the periphery of society. The church had all the power. The average person of that time felt safe in the presence of Christians. You might see it as brutal compared to modern standards, but relatively speaking it was all about being good to one another. It was the 18th and 19th centuries that romanticised the pagans. They had a rose-tinted spectacle view of them, and nothing to do with the real thing. Paganism is a cult. It does not do your brain any good. They believed it because they had no choice t but to believe it . Other beliefs could seriously damage your life expectancy.
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